How Feminism Became The West's New Moral Authority

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, AION said:

Even Leo Gura who campions the truth has swallowed all of his words about women and doesn't tell the truth about women anymore because he is sick and tired and frankly doesn't care enough about the truth in this regard.

From everything I read from you regarding women, he appears to understand women to a greater extent than you. 

The difference is you appear to be unaware of the bias and misunderstanding in your own thoughts. 

Experience and age will help you. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Elliott]

6 hours ago, zazen said:

There was no antibiotics then and it could spread through a small number of highly promiscuous people. But it doesn't mean it was normalised in society at a cultural level - more so tolerated at the margins hence brothels. The bible describing something is different to it prescribing it or endorsing it.

Material advancements (pill, industrialization, internet, social media / dating apps) removed limits and changed incentives around chastity.  But culture largely either embraces the removal of those limits and approves / disapproves of what behaviour is then normalized in that new environment.  Modern society expanded freedoms faster than new stabilizing norms could emerge to exercise those freedoms responsibly.

When men are asked to point to structural issues they get stumped largely because its not so much structural but cultural. There's no collection of visible law we can point to. It's the same way how post-civil rights racial discrimination still exists - people can be structurally free (by law) yet the culture can remain hostile or not healthy - which that takes time to evolve.

In the same way - the general cultural discourse around and about men isn't healthy, and now even discourse about women isn't healthy with red pills emergence. We're in a toxic feedback loop.

Movements outlive their initial intent - and once their core goals are achieved they need to find new paths to go down to survive. Feminism later grew offshoots that are deemed as unhelpful or unnecessary.  The need for equal outcomes (rather than opportunity) or challenging norms around sexual behaviour - by removing any norms around it instead of having healthy norms take their place.

It matters what is normalized rather than what is merely tolerated at the margins of society. For example - adults going to a cabaret show or burlesque behind closed doors where camera's usually aren't allowed - is different to Nikki Manaj twerking at a superbowl with the whole nation watching,  including children.

Edward Bernayes marketed cigarettes to women as a identity of liberation ''torches of freedom''. Today slutification is marketed as freedom and empowerment. Men can't objectify women but they can objectify themselves because its liberating when they do it - despite objectification still occurring.

A good test is to imagine being father to a daughter then ask - what kind of society would we want her growing up in? What would we want to be seen as normal by the wider culture. 

We actually need some haram police - some shame is a healthy tool for stabilizing society. It's either the hard way by force (actual haram police like in Iran or Saudi Arabia), or the soft way by cultural and social conditioning that approves or disapproves of certain behaviors. Western society removed the harsh way but also doesn't want the soft way because it ''hurts feelings''. Accept everything, pluralism until hitler gets voted, don't be so JuDgMeNtAl - no, its called discernment.

Again, feminists OPENLY, PUBLICLY, OPPOSE and criticize pump n dump, it's  CONSERVATIVES that promote it. Your both-sidedness is fucking retarded standard conservatard protocol. You just can't get off of your incel rant against feminism, feminism NEVER promoted pump n dump, conservatives have ALWAYS promoted it(see the bible), despite quiet murmurs against it.

I'm done talking to you about this, you're dogmatic and emotional about it(not your demeanor, your lack of critical and rational thinking). You have a homosexual idealized view of conservatives just because once a year one guy out of 50 million murmurs that people should be chaste, meanwhile the other 49 million guys and 3,000 days, they hypersexualize everything and promote pump n dump. Everything conservatives say in terms of morality are contradictions, they/YOU live in a constant state of cognitive dissonance. Feminists ALWAYS vocally opposed objectifying people, you're deluded and just regurgitating that idiot Muslim you always post.

 

American Psychological Association (APA)

https://www.apa.org

Sexual hook-up culture

Feb 1, 2013 — Hookups began to become more frequent in the 1920s, with the upsurge of automobiles and novel entertainment, such as movie theaters. 

 

See the conservatives in this reply.

 

Edited 14 minutes ago by Elliott

[zazen]

44 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Again, feminists OPENLY, PUBLICLY, OPPOSE and criticize pump n dump, it's  CONSERVATIVES that promote it.

Again - read the comment your responding to where I said ''Movements outlive their initial intent - and once their core goals are achieved they need to find new paths to go down to survive. Feminism later grew offshoots that are deemed as unhelpful or unnecessary.''

There's variation among feminists (classical, liberal / progressive) and conservatives who've both deviated from their origins. Right wing red pill bro's aren't the same as traditional conservatives. It's like saying Muslims promote terrorism when its nutter offshoots like ISIS.

The sex positive strand of feminism doesn't advocate to be "pumped and dumped" but removing the stigma and breaking norms around sex unleashed dynamics that produce exactly that. It delivered apex male utopia while thinking it was liberating women, chad-enomics.

This is all of us using the same blanket term feminism talking past each other:

55 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Sexual hook-up culture

Feb 1, 2013 — Hookups began to become more frequent in the 1920s, with the upsurge of automobiles and novel entertainment, such as movie theaters. 

Hooks up increasing isn't the same as it being a hook up culture. A behavior existing or increasing in the past isn't the same as that behavior being culturally mandated or normalised.

Just like my comment said - structural changes happen that change behavior via new incentives ( in this case cars and theaters ). Culture adapts to that new environment after the fact - signalling what new norms are accepted or not. In that time the wider culture still had certain norms to restrain behaviour.

A drive in date in a culture that expects courtship leading to marriage isn't equivalent to tinder hookups in a culture that celebrates no shame around body counts and has songs like WAP go mainstream. My boomer parents actually had their first chaperoned date at the theater and are still together today.

In the past men didn't and couldn't just go around bedding the whole town easily. There was still cultural stigma and the expectation that hookup and sex means your now ''serious'' and on the way to Church to do vows. Today it's netflix and chill, and hope you aren't ghosted.

 

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

I'm done talking to you about this, you're dogmatic and emotional about it(not your demeanor, your lack of critical and rational thinking).

Your done having your strawmen arguments blown over. I've said there's a middle way of balance we need to culturally come to, to manage a modern environment we aren't evolutionary adapted to.

We evolved for one environment and are living in another. ''Modern society expanded freedoms faster than new stabilizing norms could emerge to exercise those freedoms responsibly.'' 

The path is narrow.  Sensible people saying we need to constrain our behaviour and erect at least some walls gets conflated with we need to erect the same old walls that were overly repressive - which is is itself a lack of critical thinking and rationality.

 

[AION]

3 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

From everything I read from you regarding women, he appears to understand women to a greater extent than you. 

The difference is you appear to be unaware of the bias and misunderstanding in your own thoughts. 

Experience and age will help you. 

I don't think he changed his mind. He just stopped talking about it because; I'm paraphrasing here; he got sick and tired of debating with women on this forum.