How Feminism Became The West's New Moral Authority

[Elliott]

"Men need help making sense of this"

Men need to just go out and socialize with well-adjusted people and talk to women like humans, you'll find a woman to marry, just respect her and if she doesn't respect you, leave. Most women are great.

It's really that simple. All this overcomplication is just ways people try to make money on the internet off vulnerable guys.

 

Don't be a jerk, don't be a creep, don't go out to get laid by trying to get a girlfriend, do not intermix these things, they're two different activities.

[AION]

40 minutes ago, zazen said:

 

Raze and Basman have been completely measured. AION somewhat too although he’s over generalised - but he hasn’t had some meltdown.

 

I'm not going to lose my shit over these kind of people. They don't know what they are talking about and it is always me-me-me.

[Xonas Pitfall]

The problem with these discussions is that I cannot tell which claims are actually being made. The position keeps shifting, which makes real debate impossible.

For example, AION initially said we live in a matriarchy, and people responded by explaining why that claim is false. Then the response became, “That is not what we are claiming, we are just saying men and women are different. The system isn't working, it needs change.” Sure, but different how, exactly? Or, he said, “the egoism of our time, it is always me, me, me,” that sounds like a moral complaint, but it does not actually specify a position. What would a society with "less egoism in women" look like in practice? What behaviors would change, and which ones would be discouraged?

I am not denying that differences exist. The issue is specificity. There is a huge gap between a modest claim like “women are shorter on average than men” and a sweeping systemic claim like “we live in a society ruled by women,” or “the world is ruined by female egoism”. Those are not even in the same category.

What differences are actually being asserted? How large are they? In which domains do they matter?

The same problem appears with proposed solutions. Statements like “there should be less promiscuity,” or “families should be more stable” are things most people already agree with. The real disagreement is about the methods.

For example, some people might argue that women should return to traditional roles. Others disagree with that approach. That is where the actual debate is. But unless you clearly state whether that is your position, and why, the discussion never reaches the point where disagreement can be meaningfully evaluated. You need to make concrete claims about systems, causes, and proposed changes. Otherwise, we just end up talking past each other.

Edited 4 hours ago by Xonas Pitfall

[Elliott]

1 hour ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

The problem with these discussions is that I cannot tell which claims are actually being made. The position keeps shifting, which makes real debate impossible.

For example, AION initially said we live in a matriarchy, and people responded by explaining why that claim is false. Then the response became, “That is not what we are claiming, we are just saying men and women are different. The system isn't working, it needs change.” Sure, but different how, exactly? Or, he said, “the egoism of our time, it is always me, me, me,” that sounds like a moral complaint, but it does not actually specify a position. What would a society with "less egoism in women" look like in practice? What behaviors would change, and which ones would be discouraged?

I am not denying that differences exist. The issue is specificity. There is a huge gap between a modest claim like “women are shorter on average than men” and a sweeping systemic claim like “we live in a society ruled by women,” or “the world is ruined by female egoism”. Those are not even in the same category.

What differences are actually being asserted? How large are they? In which domains do they matter?

The same problem appears with proposed solutions. Statements like “there should be less promiscuity,” or “families should be more stable” are things most people already agree with. The real disagreement is about the methods.

For example, some people might argue that women should return to traditional roles. Others disagree with that approach. That is where the actual debate is. But unless you clearly state whether that is your position, and why, the discussion never reaches the point where disagreement can be meaningfully evaluated. You need to make concrete claims about systems, causes, and proposed changes. Otherwise, we just end up talking past each other.

I believe all of them, except AION, have claimed that the feminist movement is what ended chastity in our culture and brought on casual sex. This is false revisionist history, extra-marital sexual escapades have been common and well documented throughout our culture even back into the bible. STDs like syphilis were epidemic levels in the 20s, 50 years before 'the sexual revolution', al capone died from it. Several u.s. cities major business was brothels for 100 years, Europe has brothels hundreds of years old.

Edited 3 hours ago by Elliott

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

The problem with these discussions is that I cannot tell which claims are actually being made. The position keeps shifting, which makes real debate impossible.

For example, AION initially said we live in a matriarchy, and people responded by explaining why that claim is false.

This. 

As far as I am concerned the premise was debunked by countering the claim we live in matriarchy.

Everything else is just slippery sidestepping ego stuffs  

[Hojo]

Its a matriarchy that expects men to lead. Patriarchy is silenced and deemed 'sexist'. So patriarchy is stopping communicating and the matriarchy is not taking the patriarchys place. Therefore stalemate.

Men are absolutely being feminised and demasculated.

Calling people retards, being mean and angry is masculine we are not allowed to do that anymore. 

You will rarely see a man tell another person how to speak or what he can and cant do. Feminists do this non stop.

If a man dosent like what someone says they will insult them or not listen, A woman will tell them they cannot be what they are, if we have to listen patriarchy is done. After that matriarchy has to lead but they wont, too bad all its defined by is what the patriarchy does.

Its like conservatives talking points being anti liberal. If your entire field, is anti other field, your field has no ground and dosent actually exist. This is where the stalemate comes from.

When you turn your theories and beliefs into policing the patriarchy turns into your bitch and it cant fight back.

If I made the statement 'All men are retards' I would not get banned. If I made the same statement against woman I would be banned or warned. Where is the bias? In the matriarchy. This is where the policing comes in.

Against the men other people would say 'haha true' or maybe 'Maybe you are'

Against the woman the response would be 'You cannot say that and you are evil for saying that.'

Men who are online alot literally dont know what to say anymore to woman IRL cause they are confused and dont know how to be themselves anymore.

This is why I say just ignore them, if something happens it happens. If it dosent it wouldnt have made you happy anyway. Men are thinking way too much when thier minds should be silence. Thats how God intended mens minds too be. Not policed into submission.

Men need God not woman. God being total self acceptance. That is anti feminist. 0 policing of the self. The policing leads to confusion.

Edited 2 hours ago by Hojo

[Natasha Tori Maru]

I don't think it is either (matriarchy or patriarchy) - something new is forming imo

[Raze]

A matriarchy can’t form because women still demand the special privileges they get from patriarchy, they just want to deconstruct the parts they don’t like. That’s not how balanced systems work so it just results in confusion and chaos in which case feminists just double down and blame men.

We see this in liberal feminist culture being toxic and unsustainable socially with high rates of mental illness and collapsing fertility rate. Rather than address this they just want it to spread.

The American black community is one example of this, they didn’t have any real defenses to it (aside from a significant amount of religiosity) since they relied on the left movements due to discrimination, and they didn’t build up a lot of wealth and stability to have a more managed decline since they only got more equal economic participation relatively recently.

Socially, the American black community got hollowed out. Massive single parenthood rate, tons of chaos with radical beliefs and gangs filling the void. From what I heard dating in that community is a nightmare. I see a ton of black women and men actually brag about dating outside their culture and moving elsewhere. Lately white people are following a similar trajectory, theirs is just less extreme because they had built up advantages before hand since they didn’t have the same repression / had a longer period to grow power and wealth as a group.

Really what a lot of feminisms cultural push was, was a minority of mentally masculine women resting the feminine cultural role and wanting the roles of men and women to be the same. Since women are mostly feminine and follow masculine leads they followed these women.

Feminism became more democratized and included more normal feminine women however it just becomes incoherent because it is more about them just rationalizing their vibes and feelings creating hypocrisy and double standards that don’t make sense and rather than having concrete specific goals instead have vague demands and periodic hysterias. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Raze

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, Hojo said:

You will rarely see a man tell another person how to speak or what he can and cant do. 

I cannot stop laughing. Don't even know what to address here. 

Jesus lord I pray to thee ROFL

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Hojo said:

 

You will rarely see a man tell another person how to speak or what he can and cant do. Feminists do this non stop.

 

If you want to be taken seriously you need to not be so generalized.

I get what you’re saying, there is definitely a thing about women being more prone to tone policing as a way to enforce social order.

https://expression.fire.org/p/male-students-show-more-tolerance
 

Quote

Male students show more tolerance for political enemies than females show for their own allies

However just blanket saying you “rarely” see this is wrong, there are many examples of men doing this as well.

You need nuance or your point will get dismissed out if hand if people can instantly think of many counter examples.

Edited 1 hour ago by Raze