Leo can't fix you because you are Neurodivergent

[Cred]

Day 3 of trying to convince everybody on this forum they're neurodivergent (ND) and they should go down the rabbit hole.

A sentiment you see a lot here on this forum goes something like "When I walk around in the city the people I see are so profoundly different from me that they might as well be aliens. I immediately recognize (I press you to look up pattern recognition in autistic people) that they go through life absorbing what is being told to them which leads to them perfectly matching some social archetype". Only an ND person would say this. This is actually a quite universal part of the lived experience of autistic people and is not exclusive to this community.

The quick explanation is that autistic people are insensitive to social truths and more sensitive to unbiased absolute truth.

It is important not to make the mistake of believing that regular people are just people who have not discovered and studied actualized.org (AO) yet. No. They are fundamentally different from you down to the genes. They are physically unable to discover AO.

You see Kai Cenat (no need to google just some streamer) starting read self-help after a breakup. This guy will never discover AO. Here I want to throw in some caveat. Why do neurotypical people on the self-help route not reach AO? One reason is not bc they're stupid but because:

THE SHIT THEY READ ACTUALLY HELPS THEM. THIS IS BECAUSE MOST SELF HELP IS TARGETED AT NEUROTYPICALS. THE REASON WHY YOU RED A BILLION SELF-HELP BOOKS BEFORE YOU DISCOVERED ACTUALIZED.ORG IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T DO SHIT TO IMPROVE YOUR LIFE. THESE MOTHERFUCKERS WILL READ ATOMIC HABITS AND THEN ACTUALLY CREATE HABITS SUSTAINABLY. THEY FIX THEIR LIFE AND THEN MOVE ON.

I know this sounds unbelievable but it's true. You don't have any idea how easy it is to function in this society when you are neurotypical. The damning thing is that Actualized.org still does not help you to fix your life because it is still too entangled in neurotypical self-help world. You will have a better life if you do the exact opposite of what any neurotypical self-help guru says.

It is important to know that there are hybrids. I would say Cal Newport, James Clear, Jocko Willink, David Goggins are neurotypical self-help people. But there are also ND gurus who don't know they're ND, and it's funny to see them coping sometimes. The biggest two that come to mind are Jordan Peterson and of course Leo Gura. Notice that they both suffer from chronic health issues (even in a similar way) which is what inevitably happens when you live a life not suitable to your neurodivergence for too long and power through. It is no coincidence that a lot of people here were previously fans of Jordan Peterson (forgot to make a poll).

Okay now to the important part. The (for me) undisputed champions of spiritual ND-aware self-help are the youtube channel HealthyGamerGG (Dr. K) and the tiktok account nononsensespirituality. Don't underestimate them bc they aren't Leo. They have depth that is on par with that of Leo trust me. Notable mentions of people I recently discovered are drkojosarfo (Kojo Sarfo on youtube) and diploma.duck on instagram.

It is important to note that the reason you think you can't download instagram and tiktok is because you are always at the brink of burnout because you don't live a life suitable to you neurodivergance.

Edited 7 hours ago by Cred

[Alexop]

"life not lived accordingly to their ND genes" led to their chronic health problems? Lol. 

That Dr. K talks a lot of bullshit. He fits in the orthodox self-help norms because it helps his survival. He does not understand masculinity and femininity, men and women and he leads people astray. Tried to listen to a podcast with him and got annoyed. Science parroting automaton.

Of course almost everyone who cares about Leos work and seriously watched the videos and took notes are more autistic. People who watch this are systematizing, mapping oriented, cerebral, disagreeable people. Social consensus matters less than discovering truth to us. If that was not the case why should we watch hundreds of hours of content and contemplate and talk about this stuff for ages? Non-autistic people conform to the social norms.

Edited 7 hours ago by Alexop

[Joseph Maynor]

When it comes to self help work or any kind of project, I have to have a big picture understanding before I develop motivation to take action. It's hard for me to just do tasks when I can't see why I'm doing them or haven't clarified the link to my own systems for doing self help or any project really.  I need that top down sense of understanding, and then I can take massive action because I know exactly why I'm doing every single thing.  So sometimes I have a block in motivation if I haven't gone through this process, which in itself is a project and takes a lot of organization.  It's like having to do twice the amount of work.  Most people can just take action and don't even worry about this clarifying issue.  I need organization (orderliness) to precede industriousness.

Edited 7 hours ago by Joseph Maynor

[Alexop]

34 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

When it comes to self help work or any kind of project, I have to have a big picture understanding before I develop motivation to take action. It's hard for me to just do tasks when I can't see why I'm doing them or haven't clarified the link to my own systems for doing self help or any project really.  I need that top down sense of understanding, and then I can take massive action because I know exactly why I'm doing every single thing.  So sometimes I have a block in motivation if I haven't gone through this process, which in itself is a project and takes a lot of organization.  It's like having to do twice the amount of work.  Most people can just take action and don't even worry about this clarifying issue.  I need organization (orderliness) to precede industriousness.

Word. These people who say theory is a waste of time have no idea what they are talking about. That idea itself comes from a lack of understanding mind mechanics and ideology.

[Nivsch]

This isn't about the teacher or the neurological type which is a wide scale and not two statuses.

Each one have a curved self customized path leading to homeostasis and healing and have to figure it out by himself mainly, when teachers and therapists can be a good source of support along the way.

[Cred]

45 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

It's like having to do twice the amount of work.

It is important for you to understand that it is twice (some individual factor > 1) the amount of work. If you take a university course and for every lecture, you have to convince yourself that what you're learning is important you are less effective. 

What you are describing is called executive dysfunction (ED) and it is part of ND. Don't be afraid of the term "dysfunction" this is because in this society there is a bias towards negative psychology. You can reframe it as "passion oriented person".

[Cred]

35 minutes ago, Alexop said:

These people who say theory is a waste of time have no idea what they are talking about.

False. This comes from a lack of understanding neurotypicals (I'm being deliberately provocative). The average neurotypical doesn't give a shit about theory but not bc they are stupid but because they value quality time with friends and family way more. They have a fundamentally different value system. They are totally happy being a cog in a machine. They don't care if they don't understand the purpose of what they are doing, they just want to gain the material conditions necessary to build family and social connections. And, again, from their perspective this is totally reasonable. We need to understand that an ND person fundamentally has a different purpose in society than a neurotypical. It is important to understand that it is impossible to live both lives at the same time.

I suggest you to read my post about the ND bias of Actualized.org

Edited 5 hours ago by Cred

[Cred]

4 minutes ago, Cred said:

They don't care if they don't understand the purpose of what they are doing

I want to add some nuance. A neurotypical person gets to choose whether they want to care or not. An ND person fundamentally does not have the choice. They don't function without knowing the truth. And if they force themselves, they live a miserable life.

Edited 6 hours ago by Cred

[Cred]

Most NDs painfully learn this through trial and error. This is what Leo is doing. This can take a whole lifetime. The best way to speed this process up is by learning about ND.

[Cred]

2 hours ago, Alexop said:

"life not lived accordingly to their ND genes" led to their chronic health problems? Lol. 

I want to be precise about this since we are talking about the health of an individual who might be reading this and this is serious. I said that a life not lived accordingly to ND leads to chronic issues and implied a correlation (look up correlation vs causation) to the issues of Leo and JP. 

Also I don't know if executive dysfunction can lead to autoimmune disorders, but I know that it can lead to excessive stress and I suspect stress to play a role in autoimmune disorders. I'm not educated on this condition.

Edited 5 hours ago by Cred

[Joseph Maynor]

2 hours ago, Cred said:

It is important for you to understand that it is twice (some individual factor > 1) the amount of work. If you take a university course and for every lecture, you have to convince yourself that what you're learning is important you are less effective. 

This is why I couldn't stand engineering and switched majors to philosophy in college.  I work in law, but I've studied many areas of law to get a big picture so when I need to use law I know from the top down how it works and relates with law in general.  But once I have this schema, my memory and learning is strong.  But if you ask me to memorize a list of random things, I hate that.  I need to find a way to have a bigger picture reason or model to learn something effectively.  Same thing when I was learning math.  I would read advanced math books to find out why algebra was important to learn.  So, basically if I want to learn something I have to spend some time first feeling motivated to learn it, and secondly understanding the why and big picture of it.  Ditto for when I was learning how to play Jazz, I read dozens of theory books just to feel motivated to learn how to improvise.  I needed that big picture more for the motivation (inspiration), because those books really didn't help me play better Jazz trumpet.  Mostly due to finding my own voice/style.

Edited 3 hours ago by Joseph Maynor

[CARDOZZO]

I'm a fairly social guy, I do pickup, I look people into their eyes, I can read social cues. I love spirituality, introspection and meditation. Am I autistic? I don't know. I don't use social media. 

Maybe I do have some psychological condition. I don't really know  

I don't remember where I've read that Ralston is an autist.

[Alexop]

48 minutes ago, Cred said:

False. This comes from a lack of understanding neurotypicals (I'm being deliberately provocative). The average neurotypical doesn't give a shit about theory but not bc they are stupid but because they value quality time with friends and family way more. They have a fundamentally different value system. They are totally happy being a cog in a machine. They don't care if they don't understand the purpose of what they are doing, they just want to gain the material conditions necessary to build family and social connections. And, again, from their perspective this is totally reasonable. We need to understand that an ND person fundamentally has a different purpose in society than a neurotypical. It is important to understand that it is impossible to live both lives at the same time.

I suggest you to read my post about the ND bias of Actualized.org

I agree with what you wrote but that doesn't infirm what I said. There are people who want to get good at stuff without too much theory. Even enjoying time with friends needs theory nowadays. We got so fucked up that we need to learn how to socialize, what to say, what not to say.

If you want to get good at a complex topic you need a solid theoretical base. A complex mental map that will guide you and make you understand the importance of what you do. That motivates you to invest time into it. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Alexop

[Xonas Pitfall]

You are still human, neurotypical or not.

Because of that, many life lessons about priorities and self-actualization still apply to you.

If you need help focusing or functioning in society, that is simply another self-help issue. Whether the support comes from therapy, EMDR, somatic work, ADHD or ADD medication, or other forms of assistance, it is up to you to figure out.

This does not mean it will be easy, of course 

Edited 5 hours ago by Xonas Pitfall

[LastThursday]

2 hours ago, Cred said:

They have a fundamentally different value system. They are totally happy being a cog in a machine.

This sums up neatly the constant nagging feeling I've felt my entire life. I've never wanted to be a cog, and could never understand why other people were happy to do so, and worse, oblivious to it. More accurately, I've never wanted to be a cog in someone else's machine.

But I do think that being ND is like anything else in life. With respect to the world of NT, there will be some things you will never be able to learn, and some things that are difficult but achievable. I will say that with ND there can be a disinterest in what NTs find normal and straightforward, and that in itself can be a hinderance to "fitting in", because you never have the motivation to go towards more neurotypicality. 

There's the argument that NDs should not make the effort to be NT, because their frame is just as valid as any other, but, the world is very much set up for neurotypicals, and relativism doesn't help you survive in such a world.

Edited 3 hours ago by LastThursday

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, Alexop said:

We got so fucked up that we need to learn how to socialize, what to say, what not to say.

If you want to get good at a complex topic you need a solid theoretical base. A complex mental map that will guide you and make you understand the importance of what you do. That motivates you to invest time into it.

Only NDs view socializing as a complex topic. NTs don’t have to put much effort in learning what to say and what not to say. They don’t have to monitor and “mask” themselves all the time, but NDs are always masking until they accept their nature. 

Masking is an important topic that can reveal to you that you are ND. 

[Joseph Maynor]

8 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Only NDs view socializing as a complex topic. NTs don’t have to put much effort in learning what to say and what not to say. They don’t have to monitor and “mask” themselves all the time, but NDs are always masking until they accept their nature. 

Masking is an important topic that can reveal to you that you are ND. 

True.  If you ever felt awkward in normal social interactions.  

[theleelajoker]

IMO, this thread is mainly a collection of projection, generalizations, categorization and labeling.

If it's helps anyone for now to better accept him or herself, so be it..

But I'm betting my ass sooner or later you'll recognize the dead end you put yourself into.

Why? Because you label people NT or ND...but where's the line? When do you stop being X and start being Y? If you act like ABC in 8.658 cases out of 10 times to degree if 76° or more, in at least 13.7 categories out of 23.4 over a span of 3.76 months?

And even IF I take this halfway seriously, you are telling me there are only NDs and NTs lol? What about ND1 and ND2? Or actually, it's ND1.1 and ND.1.2 and ND2.1 and ND2.2. But only Sundays, and only if it's the third Sunday in a month. 

You are just creating stories to justify the way you are. Wake up, accept yourself, move on.

[Alexop]

54 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Only NDs view socializing as a complex topic. NTs don’t have to put much effort in learning what to say and what not to say. They don’t have to monitor and “mask” themselves all the time, but NDs are always masking until they accept their nature. 

Masking is an important topic that can reveal to you that you are ND. 

True. Especially in a pussified/woke social group, you need to be careful of being too authentic as an ND. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Alexop

[LastThursday]

17 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

And even IF I take this halfway seriously, you are telling me there are only NDs and NTs lol? What about ND1 and ND2? Or actually, it's ND1.1 and ND.1.2 and ND2.1 and ND2.2. But only Sundays, and only if it's the third Sunday in a month. 

Exactly what a ND would say.