Leo can't fix you because you are Neurodivergent

[Basman]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I know I am an excellent profiler of people. My dad actually sends me to meetings just to scope out body language and facial expression. My colleague does all minutes so I can focus on that. Then I speak to stakeholders one on one in follow-up video calls under the guise of general clarity and agendas. I use AI to record the conversation and profile them, take notes regarding what they emphasise, how the conversation is directed and what they volunteer as information unprompted. These are the keys to subconscious motivations.

Then after first meeting, I submit a small profile of each stakeholder. This helps us develop relationships with these members, because often we work with them repeatedly across projects because they really enjoy working with us. I'll admit it's a lot of manipulation, but it's for a good cause (building hospitals within budget, time and to maximum profit).

I've been almost 100% correct with my profiles so far. One guy totally had me stumped though, be was so emotionally and expressively flat I couldn't really gauge his needs. We work with these project managers/architects/consultants and clients for a year at a time. Sometimes more. So it is worth the time investment.

Legit CIA-worthy resume shit LOL. That's really cool. 

I bet you could use those skills working for some kind of agency, if your a little "morally flexible".

[Natasha Tori Maru]

57 minutes ago, Basman said:

Legit CIA-worthy resume shit LOL. That's really cool. 

I bet you could use those skills working for some kind of agency, if your a little "morally flexible".

I tend to just do the process I described in my head. When we started to work with many different clients I recorded it down due to volume. Prior to this I was always fascinated with what motivates people, how they tick, how they make decisions and what their values/core needs are. My initial introduction to the process was, funnily enough, going through pretty extreme childhood trauma. Living with caretakers who had clinical pathologies (cluster B) I had to learn to read people so quickly. In a flash. My safety depended on my ability to do this, and pretzel myself into what that person needed in an effort to bring peace. Unfortunate beginnings that spawned my ability, and then interest. 

Recording has been quite interesting. I pick up more subtle patterns I sometimes miss. Micro-expressions happen in a flash. But they tend to reveal the most. I think you called it 'morally flexible', because to be frank, I used to be a manipulative cu**. Internet troll. Intentionally fucking with people. Arrogant and power hungry. I try to be a nice girl now 

Quote

When you try to "figure it out" instead of just going with the flow your more likely going to get it wrong

This. I go with my first intuitive instinct. Sometimes I need to pause and consider - but this is mostly when I did not have a strong initial feeling to go on. The longer I take to answer, the less likely I will be accurate. This did take some time. Lots of inquiry around feeling, emotion. More than what is normally inquired about - we don't really like to deeply investigate our emotions, I have found. I had to build up trust in my feelings, and the truth to be found there. I have to know when a feeling is true, stemming from a belief, part of conditioning I haven't yet dissolved, false, or even when feelings are just vestigial limbs that are tacked onto thoughts that aren't relevant. I have to know precisely where my feeling or emotion is coming from, else I cannot trust it. Lots of reverse engineering internally.

I think it definitely helps to be very open and non-judgmental with this process. We can never really, truly know what others are thinking, feeling. Their meaning or history. I am always open to not knowing and being wrong. 

Everyone has a different set of habits and tells. The longer you work with them, you build up a context around the person to better help you understand. But I always prepare for a surprise  

Edited 13 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Cred]

10 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Due to the above I am really unsure if I fit any sort of label...

I don't want to slap any label on you. But I would suggest you look into "Highly sensitive person" (HSP). In my mind, a HSP is a "variation" of autism that might include insensitivity to social norms but in contrast to autistic people HSPs are extremely sensitive to their own emotions and those of others. In my mind an "empath" is also just a variation or subset or another word for HSP. An example for a symptom is that it is unbearable if someone is openly angry towards you for any reason.

I think there is a very good chance that if you were to read a book about hsp, it would feel to you like reading your own biography, bc this was what it was like to me. HSPs aren't that rare actually I think it's like 15% of the population (also the population of other mammals interestingly)

[Cred]

9 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

There is this model that places autism and psychosis on a continuum.

Oh shit thank you for this, this is really relevant for me since my mom suffers from schizophrenia😅

[Wilhelm44]

On 22/01/2026 at 2:45 PM, Cred said:

Day 3 of trying to convince everybody on this forum they're neurodivergent (ND) and they should go down the rabbit hole.

A sentiment you see a lot here on this forum goes something like "When I walk around in the city the people I see are so profoundly different from me that they might as well be aliens. I immediately recognize (I press you to look up pattern recognition in autistic people) that they go through life absorbing what is being told to them which leads to them perfectly matching some social archetype". Only an ND person would say this. This is actually a quite universal part of the lived experience of autistic people and is not exclusive to this community.

The quick explanation is that autistic people are insensitive to social truths and more sensitive to unbiased absolute truth.

It is important not to make the mistake of believing that regular people are just people who have not discovered and studied actualized.org (AO) yet. No. They are fundamentally different from you down to the genes. They are physically unable to discover AO.

You see Kai Cenat (no need to google just some streamer) starting read self-help after a breakup. This guy will never discover AO. Here I want to throw in some caveat. Why do neurotypical people on the self-help route not reach AO? One reason is not bc they're stupid but because:

THE SHIT THEY READ ACTUALLY HELPS THEM. THIS IS BECAUSE MOST SELF HELP IS TARGETED AT NEUROTYPICALS. THE REASON WHY YOU RED A BILLION SELF-HELP BOOKS BEFORE YOU DISCOVERED ACTUALIZED.ORG IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T DO SHIT TO IMPROVE YOUR LIFE. THESE MOTHERFUCKERS WILL READ ATOMIC HABITS AND THEN ACTUALLY CREATE HABITS SUSTAINABLY. THEY FIX THEIR LIFE AND THEN MOVE ON.

I know this sounds unbelievable but it's true. You don't have any idea how easy it is to function in this society when you are neurotypical. The damning thing is that Actualized.org still does not help you to fix your life because it is still too entangled in neurotypical self-help world. You will have a better life if you do the exact opposite of what any neurotypical self-help guru says.

It is important to know that there are hybrids. I would say Cal Newport, James Clear, Jocko Willink, David Goggins are neurotypical self-help people. But there are also ND gurus who don't know they're ND, and it's funny to see them coping sometimes. The biggest two that come to mind are Jordan Peterson and of course Leo Gura. Notice that they both suffer from chronic health issues (even in a similar way) which is what inevitably happens when you live a life not suitable to your neurodivergence for too long and power through. It is no coincidence that a lot of people here were previously fans of Jordan Peterson (forgot to make a poll).

Okay now to the important part. The (for me) undisputed champions of spiritual ND-aware self-help are the youtube channel HealthyGamerGG (Dr. K) and the tiktok account nononsensespirituality. Don't underestimate them bc they aren't Leo. They have depth that is on par with that of Leo trust me. Notable mentions of people I recently discovered are drkojosarfo (Kojo Sarfo on youtube) and diploma.duck on instagram.

It is important to note that the reason you think you can't download instagram and tiktok is because you are always at the brink of burnout because you don't live a life suitable to you neurodivergance.

I am curious, what is your definition of being neuro divergent ?

[Cred]

I acknowledge that my understanding of neurodivergence is incomplete, does not have a rock solid scientific foundation and is more based on my own pattern recognition, applying these concept s to myself and others.

However, I am more confident than ever that ND points to some very deep truth about how people arrive at this community and what out common struggles are (like pickup, life purpose, narcissism, spiritual bypassing, escapism for example) and how to solve them more sustainably.

It is kinda funny to me that there seems to be two camps of skeptics:

• I want more precise definitions
• Definitions are bullshit

My thinking is also often torn between those two modes, since I am at the same time a very open person but I also like clarity and rigorousness. I also think that this tendency is not unique to me in this community. I think that a vanilla 100% autistic person would never discover actualized bc Leo is too erratic for them. They choose their special interests around predictability and order. Also someone who is 100% open (only HSP only Psychotic, only schizophrenic?) would not bother to follow the thought train in a 3 hour video. My claim is that we are all autistic, HSP (or whatever) hybrid passion oriented people (executive dysfunction), and we are also all gifted.

The way I try to synthesize these opposing forces is with ambivalence, alternating consistency and inconsistency, fragmentation (see Schlegel), humor, contradiction, etc. Reality is paradox, reality is a-rational, reality is a stange-loop, reality does not care about the law of contradiction, reality allows for superpositions remember?

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Cred

[Wilhelm44]

2 minutes ago, Cred said:

I acknowledge that my understanding of neurodivergence is incomplete, does not have a rock solid scientific foundation and is more based on my own pattern recognition, applying these concept s to myself and others.

However, I am more confident than ever that ND points to some very deep truth about how people arrive at this community and what out common struggles are (like pickup, life purpose, narcissism, spiritual bypassing, escapism for example) and how to solve them more sustainably.

It is kinda funny to me that there seems to be two camps of skeptics:

• I want more precise definitions
• Definitions are bullshit

My thinking is also often torn between those two modes, since I am at the same time a very open person but I also like clarity and rigorousness. I also think that this tendency is not unique to me in this community. I think that a vanilla 100% autistic person would never discover actualized bc Leo is too erratic for them. They choose their special interests around predictability and order. Also someone who is 100% open (only HSP only Psychotic, only schizophrenic?) would not bother to follow the thought train in a 3 hour video. My claim is that we are all autistic, HSP (or whatever) hybrid passion oriented people (executive dysfunction), and we are also all gifted.

The way I try to synthesize these opposing forces is with ambivalence, alternating consistency and inconsistency, fragmentation (see Schlegel), humor, contradiction, etc. Reality is paradox, reality is a-rational, reality is a stange-loop, reality does not care about the law of contradiction, reality allows for superpositions remember?

 

But is there actually an official definition for neuro divergence, for example, have they done tests to determine which specific parts of the brain work differently, or what specific brain chemicals are out of balance ? You just listed a whole range of symptoms.

[Wilhelm44]

ps Dr K really does not seem like the right channel to assist neuro divergent people.

[Cred]

@Wilhelm44Glad you asked. One healthy way I found to deal with the term Neurodivergence (ND) is by imagining each of the types of ND (ADHD, autism, HSP, gifted, etc) is to imagine each neurodivergency as a basket full of different symptoms (there are overlaps). I see the binary diagnosis framework as "if you have a significant amount of symptoms from one type of ND, you are diagnosed with that ND". 

In my opinion, the danger of this framework is, let's say you only have a single one symptom of a single one kind of ND let's say you have executive dysfunction (ED) which is a symptom of ADHD. You will not be diagnosed with that ADHD. Now if you don't have ADHD does this now mean that you don't actually have ED????

No. If you see the symptoms of ED in your life, you have it, regardless whether you qualify for an ADHD diagnosis. The important thing to understand is that even if you only have ED, this will have a significant impact on your life, and you will identify with the ND community to some extend. And my claim again, is that a significant amount of people here have a significant amount of symptoms even if they might not have (though many do qualify actually imo) enough from one basket to qualify for the diagnosis. 

So if you don't like labels, I encourage you to not use them on yourself, but instead learn about each basket and see which of the symptoms apply to you. Even if you don't qualify for any one diagnosis

Edited 3 hours ago by Cred

[Cred]

11 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

ps Dr K really does not seem like the right channel to assist neuro divergent people.

 

[Wilhelm44]

15 minutes ago, Cred said:

@Wilhelm44Glad you asked. One healthy way I found to deal with the term Neurodivergence (ND) is by imagining each of the types of ND (ADHD, autism, HSP, gifted, etc) is to imagine each neurodivergency as a basket full of different symptoms (there are overlaps). I see the binary diagnosis framework as "if you have a significant amount of symptoms from one type of ND, you are diagnosed with that ND". 

In my opinion, the danger of this framework is, let's say you only have a single one symptom of a single one kind of ND let's say you have executive dysfunction (ED) which is a symptom of ADHD. You will not be diagnosed with that ADHD. Now if you don't have ADHD does this now mean that you don't actually have ED????

No. If you see the symptoms of ED in your life, you have it, regardless whether you qualify for an ADHD diagnosis. The important thing to understand is that even if you only have ED, this will have a significant impact on your life, and you will identify with the ND community to some extend. And my claim again, is that a significant amount of people here have a significant amount of symptoms even if they don't have enough from one basket to qualify for the diagnosis. 

So if you don't like labels, I encourage you to not use them on yourself, but instead learn about each basket and see which symptoms apply to you. Even if you don't qualify for any one diagnosis

Thank you, besides Dr K, what other channels would you watch when learning more about making the best of neuro divergence in practical life ?

[Cred]

6 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Thank you, besides Dr K, what other channels would you watch when learning more about making the best of neuro divergence in practical life ?

I hate that I don't have a good answer (for someone who doesn't like dr. k). Again, most of my knowledge stems from observing ND people, also specifically seeking them out, which I would suggest all of you to do. 

A lot of my knowledge comes from scrolling and just different sources. I would suggest you to train the algorithm (through liking posts etc) of the platform(s) of your choice to recommend you good content about the topic and then find your own favorite sources.

[Joseph Maynor]

10 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

This. I go with my first intuitive instinct. Sometimes I need to pause and consider - but this is mostly when I did not have a strong initial feeling to go on. The longer I take to answer, the less likely I will be accurate. This did take some time. Lots of inquiry around feeling, emotion. More than what is normally inquired about - we don't really like to deeply investigate our emotions, I have found. I had to build up trust in my feelings, and the truth to be found there. I have to know when a feeling is true, stemming from a belief, part of conditioning I haven't yet dissolved, false, or even when feelings are just vestigial limbs that are tacked onto thoughts that aren't relevant. I have to know precisely where my feeling or emotion is coming from, else I cannot trust it. Lots of reverse engineering internally.

I think it definitely helps to be very open and non-judgmental with this process. We can never really, truly know what others are thinking, feeling. Their meaning or history. I am always open to not knowing and being wrong. 

Everyone has a different set of habits and tells. The longer you work with them, you build up a context around the person to better help you understand. But I always prepare for a surprise  

Wow we are alike.  I agree with this 100%.  

[Wilhelm44]

2 hours ago, Cred said:

I hate that I don't have a good answer (for someone who doesn't like dr. k). Again, most of my knowledge stems from observing ND people, also specifically seeking them out, which I would suggest all of you to do. 

A lot of my knowledge comes from scrolling and just different sources. I would suggest you to train the algorithm (through liking posts etc) of the platform(s) of your choice to recommend you good content about the topic and then find your own favorite sources.

Thanks

[Human Mint]

14 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Carl-Richard 35/36

What does this mean? 

I know I am an excellent profiler of people. My dad actually sends me to meetings just to scope out body language and facial expression. My colleague does all minutes so I can focus on that. Then I speak to stakeholders one on one in follow-up video calls under the guise of general clarity and agendas. I use AI to record the conversation and profile them, take notes regarding what they emphasise, how the conversation is directed and what they volunteer as information unprompted. These are the keys to subconscious motivations.

Then after first meeting, I submit a small profile of each stakeholder. This helps us develop relationships with these members, because often we work with them repeatedly across projects because they really enjoy working with us. I'll admit it's a lot of manipulation, but it's for a good cause (building hospitals within budget, time and to maximum profit).

I've been almost 100% correct with my profiles so far. One guy totally had me stumped though, be was so emotionally and expressively flat I couldn't really gauge his needs. We work with these project managers/architects/consultants and clients for a year at a time. Sometimes more. So it is worth the time investment. This all comes quite naturally to me, so it is not an effort to do on top of my usual work because I am fascinated by what motives people. 

Due to the above I am really unsure if I fit any sort of label...

Lol. I am actually a natural leader, I would fit very good in a director type of position. But I would need a person like you to look people in the eyes and tell me what their needs are. I don't have the habit of looking people in the eyes, and that's a deal breaker for a lot of people.

I talked with my parents and they told me they were worried when I was a child because I would not look in the eyes of people. I might be a ND afterall.

Edited 1 hour ago by Human Mint

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, Human Mint said:

Lol. I am actually a natural leader, I would fit very good in a director type of position. But I would need a person like you to look people in the eyes and tell me what their needs are. I don't have the habit of looking people in the eyes, and that's a deal breaker for a lot of people.

What makes you think you're a natural leader?  Curious.

[Human Mint]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What makes you think you're a natural leader?  Curious.

I have a lot of vision and I can inspire people a lot, explaining my vision and why is important is a need I have. My main quest is putting that into practice as much as possible.

[CARDOZZO]

On 23/01/2026 at 4:04 AM, Carl-Richard said:

Anybody want to take this test? It's supposed to diagnose autism:

https://embrace-autism.com/reading-the-mind-in-the-eyes-test/

I remember I scored 34/36 the first time I took it (higher score indicates less autism). So that would mean I'm supremely not-autistic. But you could say I'm neurodivergent, because it's way outside the normal range (the range in a sample of n = 19 neurotypicals was 23-30).

31/36