Do men and women awaken equally ?

[Loveeee]

In terms of numbers and depth 

Do more women awaken than men ? Do men awaken deeper ? Or vice-versa,  or is it kinda equal ? 

50/50 ? 40/60, 60/40, or what ? 

What's your feeling 

[Leo Gura]

We don't have the data.

I would guess men more than women, and deeper. Because men are more interested in these sorts of matters, and willing to sacrifice more for truth. Most monks are men, as an example. Nuns are rarer. Think of how many women vs men do Zen. There are also powerful cultural forces at play. Women are expected and told to care for children, not pursue truth. Truth-seeking is a masculine-biased activity. It suits the masculine better because the masculine is more ruthless, direct, blunt, ambitious, proactive, goal-oriented, lone-wolf, emotionally detached.

If you could compare the number of monks vs nuns in the world, this would give you a rough percentage estimate.

Edited 7 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Hojo]

Men think of existential things and ponder them more than woman. Its innate when I was 4 or 5 I was already looking up at the sky pondering existentialism. I came the conclusion that we are a cell in a cell in a cell when I was a child. When I was 7 I had the idea that I can't know if I'm dreaming or not.

Edited 6 hours ago by Hojo

[theleelajoker]

Based on my direct experience within my field of awareness: it's 50:50 and it doesn't matter if you're man or woman.

Every "men" vs. "women" discussion re truth and awaking is bullshit and projection.

Being a monk doesn't mean you're awake. Being a man doesn't make you more "truthful".

You can easily make the opposite case: becoming a mother can connect you more to life than anything else. I mean, can you be more directly be connected to life than carrying and growing life LITERALLY inside you? Is there any method that turns your attention more inwards than pregnancy? 

Rarely heard more BS than this:

" Truth-seeking is a masculine-biased activity. It suits the masculine better because the masculine is more ruthless, direct, blunt, ambitious, proactive, goal-oriented, lone-wolf, emotionally detached"

Someone urgently seems to need validation for his own self worth by creating a story like this and presenting it as "truth" lol

Edited 6 hours ago by theleelajoker

[Ramasta9]

I think in most cases men need to master the feminine within and women need to master the masculine within that then creates the balance of energies thus awakening of the full human. This is just word play and not set-in-stone, but it does point to something deeper and mysterious  

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Ramasta9

[Joshe]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you could compare the number of monks vs nuns in the world, this would give you a rough percentage estimate.

I'm no statistician but I don't see how lifestyle access can be used to measure capacity.

It would be like trying to infer intelligence by counting who went to university when half the population couldn't even go. There are plenty of intelligent non-university people who wouldn't show up in the stats.

[Hojo]

@Joshe Anyone can go be a monk. Just the men are more likely to give everything up and go. Its not a university.

I would say look at the population of homeless people how many woman find a homeless man vs how many homeless men are by themselves. That would be the proportion of truth seekers to non via men and woman. Yes the men get an advantage via survival and strength but using a man to survive  that will make you lose truth. You are using a dream character to protect yourself from the dream. It dosent work that way. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Hojo

[Joseph Maynor]

Yes they can.  

[Hojo]

My feeling is like 20/80 men being 80.

[Joseph Maynor]

1 minute ago, Hojo said:

My feeling is like 20/80 men being 80.

Naw women are more woke than men on average.

[Hojo]

@Joseph Maynor Being woke and caring has nothing to do with God. You can beleive in crystals and chakrss and witches and spell magik that has nothing to do with God. They beleive in that stuff more but that has nothing to do with awakening to God. Its just more BS.

Tarot and anything to do with physical reality is not awakening.

Edited 6 hours ago by Hojo

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, Hojo said:

@Joseph Maynor Being woke and caring has nothing to do with God. You can beleive in crystals and chakrss and witches and spell magik that has nothing to do with God.

But if doesn't matter what others believe.  That's the crux of the issue.

[Hojo]

@Joseph Maynor Being open to spirituality and other realms is not awakening. You need the experience of awakening to God. Beleifs are not God. You can be woke to spiritual stuff and have no idea about God. If you are not awoken to God you are still in ego.

If you awaken you will see nothing for the first time. Its not an intellectual understanding or beleif. Its an experience of being surrounded and ingulfed in nothing.

Edited 5 hours ago by Hojo

[Joseph Maynor]

1 minute ago, Hojo said:

@Joseph Maynor Being open to spirituality and other realms is not awakening. You need the experience of awakening to God. Beleifs are not God.

I realize God is important to many people including myself, but I'm not going to Lord it over people either.  That's unnecessarily divisive.  

[Hojo]

@Joseph Maynor Whos lording? Did I say people can't awaken? No its just they don't care about it. If they cared about it they would take death seriously they would have an existential crisis at 10 not 60. Mid life crisis should happen at a child's age not 50 but people are running from the idea of God they don't take it seriously.

Edited 5 hours ago by Hojo

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Joshe said:

I'm no statistician but I don't see how lifestyle access can be used to measure capacity.

It is not necessarily a measure of capacity but just the total picture of the situation. If most women are culturally steered away from truth-seeking then that is part of why fewer women Awaken. That doesn't mean this couldn't change in the future, but it is the current situation. And you can't just take cultural norms for granted. Cultural norms also reflect deep aspects of feminine needs and desires. Culturally women are steered away from technical science because that is not suitable for most women. That is not what they want or need. Truth-seeking is less of a feminine need. You will notice that the women who do truth-seeking are more masculine for it. They are not your typical girly girl. They are exceptions to the rule. It is kind of odd to see a woman doing hardcore truth-seeking. Whereas it doesn't feel as odd to see a man doing it. You can blame that on sexism, but there is more to it than that.

Edited 5 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Miguel1]

Leo is correct here. Women are generally more interested in feel good vibes and emotions, whereas men are more interested in hard facts and truths.

Doesnt mean that neither are full of shit.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

If we are strictly answering OPs question - more men awaken. 

This reason:

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There are also powerful cultural forces at play. Women are expected and told to care for children, not pursue truth. 

being a prominent driver. 

Potential to awaken is another debate entirely.

Women are definitely more concerned with feeling/emotional states, and interoception. Childbirth, rearing, and caring for the tribe require close and strict attention paid to internal states. I think, with clarity and truth seeking, feeling can be a route to Truth, if assessed and dissected in an unbiased way to reveal where feeling/emotional states are being generated through thoughts, and feeling/emotion enquiry. I think this is key to the feminine path.

Just like thoughts can be corrupt through cognitive biases, feelings can also be corrupt through bias. And more often than not, feeling states are overwhelming in a different way to thinking.

I think it is a very, very rare talent to accurately investigate and assess the feeling and emotion states without becoming overwhelmed/confused/muddled. Clarity in this arena requires more skill than clarity within thinking/logic states. Those who can see emotion/feeling clearly and see the truth they point to are rare. Humans are swept up in the emotional experience, and mostly if you don't have talent or expertise in assessing emotion, the experience tends to confuse thought.

I think many women do not have the calm and clarity to accurately reverse engineer from emotions & feelings back to thought, and then truth.

But hey, I might be sexist here. This has been my experience. 

I do not think I am typical. I see more people contemplating the ontology of a cup over trying to understand a feeling. And I go deep into feeling and emotional assessment over anything else.

Edited 1 hour ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Joshe]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It is not necessarily a measure of capacity but just the total picture of the situation. If most women are culturally steered away from truth-seeking then that is part of why fewer women Awaken. That doesn't mean this couldn't change in the future, but it is the current situation. And you can't just take cultural norms for granted. Cultural norms also reflect deep aspects of feminine needs and desires. Culturally women are steered away from technical science because that is not suitable for most women. That is not what they want or need. Truth-seeking is less of a feminine need. You will notice that the women who do truth-seeking are more masculine for it. They are not your typical girly girl. They are exceptions to the rule. It is kind of odd to see a woman doing hardcore truth-seeking. Whereas it doesn't feel as odd to see a man doing it. You can blame that on sexism, but there is more to it than that.

Of course, but if you take 1000 women and 1000 men and put them in equal environments with all things being equal, any they all share the same goal - to awaken - is there any reason to believe more men would awaken than women if they had equal drive for it? I doubt it. It might even be 60/40 women on top. 

And spare me the "If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle" 😂

The thread title is "Do men and women awaken equally ?" 

Given the current circumstances, no, way more men do. But level the playing field, and my money is on the women. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Joshe

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Joshe said:

if they had equal drive for it?

But this is a total cop-out.

Having drive for Awakening is 90% of the problem.

You have constructed exactly the "aunt has balls" scenario.

Yes, if women had balls they would Awaken at the same rate to men. Not having balls is the thing in question.

Edited 2 hours ago by Leo Gura