John Anthony vs Owen Cook meeting clavicular - perfect illustration of frame

[Raze]

Note: (this post is NOT about Clavicular, please do not remove it for being a repost as he just is incidentally in the interaction, the focus is the others in interaction)
 

The PUA John Anthony Lifestyle and self help guru Owen Cook both ran into the recently viral controversial streamer Clavicular. But what ended up happening is it gave us a great example of the difference between weak frame and strong frame. This is a hard thing to grasp for guys learning to improve their game, so it’s a great test to see.

Here is John’s interaction:
 

 

Here is Owen’s interaction (first minute and 30 seconds of this video, you can stop watching after it) 

The difference could not be starker and could not better show how weak vs strong frames behave in the wild.

In Owen’s case notice his entire vibe is in some ways flippant, jokey, and relaxed, he clearly does not care and is just having his own fun. However at the same time he is engaged, as a result you can see Clavicular and his friends acknowledge him and show respect. Despite being polar opposites he maintains his own authority but without stepping on their toes and triggering a backlash.

But compare that to John.

Right away he goes in with a combative frame, but pathetically he crumbles at the slightest pushback and immediately tries qualifying himself by bragging about his lay count. Clavicular and his friends laugh in his face at how stupid and pathetic he is. Another thing to notice is his wife, as the interaction progresses her body language turns away from John and she starts getting closer to Clavicular and his friends, smiling at them and reaching towards them. This is because women subconsciously register who is the person seeking validation in an interaction and who they are seeking it from and register that person as the dominant leader and immediately feel more drawn to them. In this case Johns own wife is subconsciously repulsed by the pathetic behavior of a almost 40 year old man desperately qualifying himself to random punk 19 year olds on the street.

John then makes it worse by actually following them to talk more. He now claims he didn’t realize who clavicular was, this makes it even more pathetic because it means he wasn’t even qualifying himself to a internet celebrity but actually who he thought was some random punk kid. Though in his defense he’s probably lying.

He basically begs for a collaboration at that point and they finally give him it so he leaves, then they mock him behind his back as he drives away.

Conclusion:

This demonstrates how a weak frame or strong frame behaves in the wild. In both cases they are emerging from the mindset and emotional state of the person.

John Anthony for years has constantly trashed Owen and mocked him trying to imply he is socially weaker than him, often touting his supposed lay count. But with this we can see really it is his immense inner insecurity and jealousy with the attacks being a desperate attempt to save face.

Edited 10 hours ago by Raze

[Miguel1]

I never studied John. But from the little I’ve seen from him, I’m surprised Leo gave him so much props.

This guy is a complete loser.

[Leo Gura]

51 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

I’m surprised Leo gave him so much props.

Don't say that. I didn't give him props. I merely said he is effective. Which he is. His game is extremely basic and utilitarian. Basically grab girl by the arm and pull her into a bedroom.

Does he lie about his lay count? Almost certainly.

Is he someone you should strive to be like as a man? Absolutely not.

Does he have some kind of awesome witty verbal game? Not at all. But this just goes to show that isn't needed.

There are many different styles of game and they all work for someone.

Edited 6 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Valach]

@Leo Gura Isn't it dangerous to still learn these aspects of his behaviour to get some results? Doesn't it corrupt you as a person then? I feel like learning a more holistic approach to meeting woman eventhough you might not get as many results (though they might be of higher quality) is better for your development no?

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Valach said:

@Leo Gura Isn't it dangerous to still learn these aspects of his behaviour to get some results? Doesn't it corrupt you as a person then? I feel like learning a more holistic approach to meeting woman eventhough you might not get as many results (though they might be of higher quality) is better for your development no?

You should know me by now. I will learn from Hitler. I do not care. My mind will take the good and strip out the bad.

Of course your results may vary.

My philosophy is to learn from everyone. Then you will never get stuck and you will see all sides.

But this might be too radical for some of you. I don't know.

I did learn a few very useful things from John. But I don't hold him as some great teacher of game. He is more of an interesting side character. I learned far more from Owen. Owen is the superior teacher.

Edited 6 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Jannes]

At a festival I met a guy who had the appearence of a pirate. He would always push himself through the crowd and then do coke in the middle of everyone. Then he would do simple sexual dance moves like moving his hips back and forth. Basically offering coke and dick. 

It was the most absurd game I have ever seen. But for him in particular I could see how it could work. He had this wild appearence, some girls may like it, it was BDSM built into it. In fact I noticed that he got lots of attention and girls actually made short chit chat if they would want to take the offer. 

When he left the crowd I wondered if I could pull it off so I made the same sexual dance moves like him and everyone starred at me, so I left fast. You gotta find YOUR niche indeed. 

[AION]

John Anthony is what happens if you only focus on getting laid and don't make children. That is why he was intimidated by young guys. People who don't have children always have to overcompensate in some way. Owen is like that not because of frame but because he is intrinsically happy.

Edited 5 hours ago by AION

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I did learn a few very useful things from John.

Like what?

35 minutes ago, AION said:

John Anthony is what happens if you only focus on getting laid and don't make children. 

Hopefully it stays that way, no child deserves that fate. 

[something_else]

You know you've fucked up when you manage to look like the bad guy while talking to Clavicular.

When his wife starts touching the other guy him and laughing with him... if there were ever an appropriate moment for a gen Z 💀 emoji it would be that. I almost feel sorry for him, then I remember some of the stuff I've seen him say and do before.

[AION]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

Like what?

Hopefully it stays that way, no child deserves that fate. 

It is selfishness. But look at him right now. Old man competing with young men for meat pocket.

[Miguel1]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't say that. I didn't give him props. I merely said he is effective. Which he is. His game is extremely basic and utilitarian. Basically grab girl by the arm and pull her into a bedroom.

Sounds like an effective way to jail in todays day and age.

But sorry if I put words in your mouth, wasn’t the intention 

[Twentyfirst]

It's funny all these guys are just imitating naturals. PUA is mimicking men who are natural with women by spotting all their subtle tactics and then copying them. But you'll never see a natural act in this way. Naturals just live their lives and women come to them. PUA gets stuck inside the game not realizing that the game is just a vehicle to go from incel to natural.

[Lyubov]

Owen is the only one here worth learning anything from and even him you have to be careful. I do not recommend this “learn form everyone approach.” The line between life changing mistake and reasonable life choice is thinner than you think. It’s crazy to think that there’s guys sending these guys money. They are like parasite, similar to Onlyfans models. And of course there are stupid simps that send them cash and keep them afloat.  

[Zenterus]

The more I watch John the less I believe he is any good at pickup, to be honest.

I used to give him the benefit of the doubt because he did have some solid advice regarding dealing with rejection, assuming attraction, dating funnels, pulling and dealing with objections etc

But then you watch how he interacts with people and he violates every rule regarding attractive subcommunications. He is very reactive and giggly in set, constantly qualifies himself, he is pushy, needy and very unkempt (at least in a few years ago).

I know @Leo Gura and others - namely the youtuber Playing with Fire - say that he does have some solid game but I really cannot picture it based on what I've seen of him so far.

[Twentyfirst]

I like The Real Game. New guy, low subs, just real game without any toxic hatred or red pill rage. He is pretty balanced at dealing with modern dating. He dresses like a Miami bro but definitely has more game than he looks.