What spiritual teachers actually teach Solipsism

[Inliytened1]

@Sincerity I think for @Carl-Richard he is very triggered by the concept of solipsism.  Its understandable given how twisted it is.  But that's just him.  He gets very bent out of shape as soon as you speak the word. 

[Inliytened1]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

 

I linked this video earlier, and it resonates with what I have said, time and time again, in this thread and elsewhere. It resonates with what Rupert Spira has said about solipsism, what Bernardo Kastrup has said about it (I can also name-drop people).

The distinction is about the dreamer and the dream characters. The dreamer is one, is omniscient, knows itself and everything because it is everything. The dream character, the videogame character, the avatar in the MMO role-playing game, is a projection, happening inside the dreamer's unbounded consciousness. The dreamer is one, because it is everything, it exists everywhere, in everything, at the same time, in "everyone". The avatars are irrelevant, they are illusory, projections. The dreamer is one. The dreamer is one. The dreamer is one.

The moment you engage in "where is your grandmother?", you're engaging in illusion. You are not talking about an omniscient dreamer. You are engaging in a very select and limited section of the projections of the dreamer, dreamed by the dreamer, and the dreamer is not an avatar, it is not confined to an avatar, it is not confined to anything. Avatars are concerned with what you can see, smell, touch, hear, feel. The dreamer is concerned with what "is", what is everything, beyond what you can smell, see, feel, beyond anything you as an avatar can imagine with your limited imagination. And what "is" is pure knowing, pure being, pure "is".

 

You were given the opportunity to read the above text with undue charity, strategically leaving this at the end so you might be more open. Now, let me re-iterate: there is something wildly juvenile about writing a thread where you open with "you know who agrees with me? The most respected guy in the business" and then you're completely wrong, and you even admit you're wrong. And now you also make it my burden to prove you wrong. That is also wrong.

 

Nevermind, I should've placed it at the beginning. If you think knowing the difference between "minds" as in the common psychologist perception of it (the type Freud, Jung, etc., talk about) — the minds of perception, feeling, sensation — vs the mind of God, the pure consciousness permeating all of reality, is to be "engrossed in being complex", then ok, being complex is necessary.

This video is a joke and I've heard it before. 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

But isn’t there something untruthful about the self? You guys talk about non duality being truth so much, the average human walks around experiencing that they’re super real (meaning separate) isn’t it something illusory about it?

The idea of false and true isn't the correct approach imo. Would be better limited and unlimited. The point is dissolving your inner limits made of fear and need of permanence, then be unlimited.

That doesn't mean that limits are false, they exist, but you can make them transparent, perceive without limits.

Perception needs form, and any form is made of límits, and form is always the case. Without form there is not change, and no change doesn't exist. Existence is precisely change, movement.

The lapse without change is out of the time, no becoming, it is never. But of course, never is as real as always, just not manifested. Reality is beyond existence. Existence is the manifestation of reality. And consciousness is a concrete structure that existence takes. It's absolutely obvious, but probably it sounds like a nonsense 😅

 

[James123]

59 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

 

I just want you to be happy. I have found that when you are so awakened things become too mundane for you and it is difficult to survive that way.  Just be happy

"you" will never get it.

Drop with Love 

 

[ExploringReality]

@Inliytened1

Enlightenment isn't something obtained. It is the recognition of what is already here. It is not something to grab, it is the letting go and realization that there is nothing to grab onto to, but this is not the same as not seeking, because if you don't seek, you won't find the needleless needle

[Inliytened1]

Just now, ExploringReality said:

@Inliytened1

Enlightenment isn't something obtained. It is the recognition of what is already here. 

No its not that at all. This is more of what the neo-advaitans want to feed you.  

It is the realization of no self period. It is not realizing what is already the case because you do not know the self is an illusion until you do.   So this is foolishness  

[Breakingthewall]

17 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

@Inliytened1

Enlightenment isn't something obtained. It is the recognition of what is already here. It is not something to grab, it is the letting go and realization that there is nothing to grab onto to, but this is not the same as not seeking, because if you don't seek, you won't find the needleless needle

It's hard-won, achieved with great difficulty, because it requires dissolving all your energetic barriers. And these barriers are genetically encoded, built by life over millions of years.

They are the need to remain, the absolute fear of non-existence, the need for control, the need for belonging, for acceptance, for being part of something, the need for self-preservation. Your perception bounces off these barriers; it's inevitable. Breaking them down is no easy feat.

[Breakingthewall]

Btw all modern spirituality that tells you, "You are consciousness," is simply a sublimation of the living organism's need for permanence. Faced with the fear of disappearing, the organism identifies with something superior, consciousness, which cannot disappear. Therefore, it feels safe. It's all a scam. True spirituality is much more challenging. It requires opening oneself to non-existence, which is absolutely real, just as real as existence. You can't understand what reality is because it's beyond of any understanding. Understanding happen in reality, it's just a form. Reality is total, and you can be open to it, because you are that. 

[ExploringReality]

56 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

No its not that at all. This is more of what the neo-advaitans want to feed you.  

It is the realization of no self period. It is not realizing what is already the case because you do not know the self is an illusion until you do.   So this is foolishness  

NO-Self is already the case no matter your realization of it or not, however I'm not suggesting you dont work hard to awaken, I'm simply speaking from the Absolute, but as a relativistic finite self you work your ass off to realize what you actually are which isn't something to gain paradoxically. As an illusory self you need to bust through that illusion, pierce through that veil, but the illusion of self is already the case. 

You realize what is already the case. It's like looking for your glasses while they're already on your face, right now you do not know that you are wearing them until you recognize that you haven't found anything but simply remembered that it's already here. Obviously you seek and search for that which isn't elsewhere but simply hidden in plain sight but also it's not a thing to find. 

Edited 20 hours ago by ExploringReality

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

NO-Self is already the case no matter your realization of it or not, however I'm not suggesting you dont work hard to awaken, I'm simply speaking from the Absolute, but as a relativistic finite self you work your ass off to realize what you actually are which isn't something to gain paradoxically. As an illusory self you need to bust through that illusion, pierce through that veil, but the illusion of self is already the case. 

You realize what is already the case. It's like looking for your glasses while they're already on your face, right now you do not know that you are wearing them until you recognize that you haven't found anything but simply remembered that it's already here. Obviously you seek and search for that which isn't elsewhere but simply hidden in plain sight but also it's not a thing to find. 

Frame it how you wish but of course everything is already the case. It doesn't mean you know it beforehand. 

[ExploringReality]

19 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Frame it how you wish but of course everything is already the case. It doesn't mean you know it beforehand. 

I'm not arguing against you, I'm dovetailing with you. I'm not arguing the case that one is enlightened before one is, relativistically speaking, I'm simply saying "after"you pass through that gate you then see that there isn't one. 

"Do not try and bend the spoon, simply realize that there is no spoon". Look at the spoon (self) long enough for many many hours until you realize that there's nothing there

And yes I know that there are non-dualist that will happily tell you that there isn't anything to work towards and you don't have to do a damn thing, that's not what I'm saying.

Edited 19 hours ago by ExploringReality

[Inliytened1]

20 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

I'm not arguing against you, I'm dovetailing with you. I'm not arguing the case that one is enlightened before one is, relativistically speaking, I'm simply saying "after"you pass through that gate you then see thatyed there isn't one. 

"Do not try and bend the spoon, simply realize that there is no spoon". Look at the spoon (self) long enough for many many hours until you realize that there's nothing there

And yes I know that there are non-dualist that will happily tell you that there isn't anything to work towards and you don't have to do a damn thing, that's not what I'm saying.

Someone can tell you the gate is invisible all day but until your mind realizes it it will be a gate.   And so the whole problem here is that if you say to a very green spiritual person that they are already enlightened guess what?  They will think they're enlightened.   Its not rocket science.  But you can see the danger here.

Edited 19 hours ago by Inliytened1

[ExploringReality]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Someone can tell you the gate is invisible all day but until your mind realizes it it will be a gate.   And so the whole problem here is that if you say to a very green spiritual person that they are already enlightened guess what?  They will think they're enlightened.   Its not rocket science.  But you can see the danger here.

Exactly 💯 

The ego in its lower stage of intelligence and development can twist Truth and turn enlightenment into a philosophy or a concept. A belief system of enlightenment and spirituality. 

It is true that enlightenment isn't somewhere else, that it is you, but it doesn't mean you know thyself. The pointers are only that, but people fall for the finger instead of trying to grasp what it's pointing to. People believe the finger of enlightenment haha. It is a danger to tell people that they are already enlightened, it's a tightrope that people need to balance with skilled epistemic feet and meditative and contemplative rigor. 

It's easy to delude oneself in this regard.

I personally think there's a danger on both sides. Telling someone that it's already the case and also saying that you need to work your ass off to realize that it's the case. Because there's traps on both sides and I think there is benefits in bringing both of them together in a smart way so you don't just waste your time mechanically meditating on some future goal or blindly believing what some other person is telling you

Edited 19 hours ago by ExploringReality

[Sugarcoat]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The idea of false and true isn't the correct approach imo. Would be better limited and unlimited. The point is dissolving your inner limits made of fear and need of permanence, then be unlimited.

That doesn't mean that limits are false, they exist, but you can make them transparent, perceive without limits

Yea even if we’d say it’s not real, doesn’t make a difference to our current experience, our reality is this current limited experience , so in some way it seem to exist

Do you think if all fear and need is gone then limits are gone too, why can we be in deeply calm state but still remain in this limited experience then? I have in my own experience felt how fear is correlated to a ”denser “ sense of self. But I also feel there’s component to it that’s just “there” kinda no matter how I feel

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

Perception needs form, and any form is made of límits, and form is always the case. Without form there is not change, and no change doesn't exist. Existence is precisely change, movement.

The lapse without change is out of the time, no becoming, it is never. But of course, never is as real as always, just not manifested. Reality is beyond existence. Existence is the manifestation of reality. And consciousness is a concrete structure that existence takes. It's absolutely obvious, but probably it sounds like a nonsense 😅

 

Even if one hasn’t arrived at insight into nature of reality some of these ideas still make sense somehow . And even if it doesn’t it’s okay I’m not looking for a concept to satisfy me (I think 🤣)

Edited 18 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, ExploringReality said:

Exactly 💯 

The ego in its lower stage of intelligence and development can twist Truth and turn enlightenment into a philosophy or a concept. A belief system of enlightenment and spirituality. 

It is true that enlightenment isn't somewhere else, that it is you, but it doesn't mean you know thyself. The pointers are only that, but people fall for the finger instead of trying to grasp what it's pointing to. People believe the finger of enlightenment haha. It is a danger to tell people that they are already enlightened, it's a tightrope that people need to balance with skilled epistemic feet and meditative and contemplative rigor. 

It's easy to delude oneself in this regard.

I personally think there's a danger on both sides. Telling someone that it's already the case and also saying that you need to work your ass off to realize that it's the case. Because there's traps on both sides and I think there is benefits in bringing both of them together in a smart way so you don't just waste your time mechanically meditating on some future goal or blindly believing what some other person is telling you

Yes those are great points. Also we must be careful not to push anything on someone.  I have a Christian girlfriend and its very difficult to discuss this stuff with her but we make it work. I would never push anything on her.  The stuff is out there if someone wants it.  But finding Leo and his videos are a goldmine if someone takes advantage of it.

The funny thing about Christians though is how they subtly try to push it on you haha

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes those are great points. Also we must be careful not to push anything on someone.  I have a Christian girlfriend and its very difficult to discuss this stuff with her but we make it work. I would never push anything on her.  The stuff is out there if someone wants it.  But finding Leo and his videos are a goldmine if someone takes advantage of it.

The funny thing about Christians though is how they subtly try to push it on you haha

 

This is a very good description of Love IMO.  Realizing everyone has a different/differing Truth on some level.  I know this is paradoxical -- if one is  looking at things from a Truth perspective alone.

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

This is a very good description of Love IMO.  Realizing everyone has a different/differing Truth on some level.  I know this is paradoxical -- if one is  looking at things from a Truth perspective alone.

Yes.  Whether there are Absolutes or not don't really matter on a personal level. Thank you Joseph. 

It took me a long time to realize this.

Edited 16 hours ago by Inliytened1

[ExploringReality]

@Inliytened1

Hahaha. The irony right?

Have you brought it up to her at all? And if so what was her response or reaction? Would you like to be with someone who shares more grounded open-mindedness, willing to look outside the edges of their worldview? To have really deep conversations that threatened the self and constructed psyche? Have you showed her Leo's channel? It can feel isolating when two people don't resonate internally but I suppose you can still share great experiences with another even if they don't suspect the world and it's double 

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

@Inliytened1

Hahaha. The irony right?

Have you brought it up to her at all? And if so what was her response or reaction? Would you like to be with someone who shares more grounded open-mindedness, willing to look outside the edges of their worldview? To have really deep conversations that threatened the self and constructed psyche? Have you showed her Leo's channel? It can feel isolating when two people don't resonate internally but I suppose you can still share great experiences with another even if they don't suspect the world and it's double 

Exactly the irony haha.  Yes I've brought it up to her and we accept that we are different in certain regards but one thing we find common ground on is that God exists.  She is very into Jesus so I dont push the subject.  Its so ingrained- religion that is - for some people that breaking them away from it is impossible. 

Yeah I would have liked to find someone like minded but it wasnt in the cards.

Like I said its not too big a deal. Ill go to church with her if she wants.  I grew up with a Jewish background but im open to all things. 

Edited 15 hours ago by Inliytened1

[ExploringReality]

 

14 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Exactly the irony haha.  Yes I've brought it up to her and we accept that we are different in certain regards but one thing we find common ground on is that God exists.  She is very into Jesus so I dont push the subject.  Its so ingrained- religion that is - for some people that breaking them away from it is impossible. 

Yeah I would have liked to find someone like @Natasha Tori Maru for a girlfriend but it wasnt in the cards.  

Like I said its not too big a deal. Ill go to church with her if she wants.  I grew up with a Jewish background but im open to all things. 

Are you both standing on the same ground or are you guys standing on your own grounds that God exists? Have you asked her why she believes in Jesus, have you had conversations with her that question her beliefs? 

Kudos to @Natasha Tori Maru you're a gem out there in the world. You have a beautiful mind. you're quite hottie and feisty lol we went at each other's throats.

That's interesting. How do you feel going to church with her really? Do you feel like you're turning away from yourself inside to subtly please her or maintain the image of the relationship? Would it matter to her if you said no? Not because you're not open but because you're sovereign, however I'm not telling you what you want to do. Whether you want to or not, I'm asking if whatever choice you make, is it true and integral to you? I'm not saying that you can't participate in other people's paradigms and there's no fun in that or it's not a big deal, but it's good to be honest with yourself about what your intrinsic boundaries are.

Edited 15 hours ago by ExploringReality