Democrats cave on ACA shutdown.

[Apparition of Jack]

https://apnews.com/article/government-shutdown-congress-trump-641e7e2324f261da72395b604d9540e8

Not sure what to make of this. On one hand, it’s basically a political win for the Republicans, because it lets them gut healthcare without offering anything in return.

On the other hand, things like FAA workers not being able to direct flights was really messing with the country so the shutdown had to end at some point. Also, even though it’s coming to an end, the discourse has been around how bad the Republicans are on healthcare from what I’ve seen, so the damage is done.

Thoughts? Did the Dems cave too early? Is it time to get rid of the old guard of Dem politicians who keep letting the Republicans ruin America, or was this agreement justified? 
 

 

[Inliytened1]

21 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

https://apnews.com/article/government-shutdown-congress-trump-641e7e2324f261da72395b604d9540e8

Not sure what to make of this. On one hand, it’s basically a political win for the Republicans, because it lets them gut healthcare without offering anything in return.

On the other hand, things like FAA workers not being able to direct flights was really messing with the country so the shutdown had to end at some point. Also, even though it’s coming to an end, the discourse has been around how bad the Republicans are on healthcare from what I’ve seen, so the damage is done.

Thoughts? Did the Dems cave too early? Is it time to get rid of the old guard of Dem politicians who keep letting the Republicans ruin America, or was this agreement justified? 
 

 

Bro people can't eat.  The right are monsters to force the left into defeat. 

All I can say is you guys better have a plan in place to overtake these goons.  

Worst President ever and not because nothing good happened but because he promised the world and delivered nothing.  

Groceries aren't even affordable anymore.  Inflation is at an all time high.  

Good immigrants are being forced out.

Mofhers can get abortions if they choose.. 

And wars rage on - Putin laughed in Trumps face.

This is an all out nightmare

Edited 8 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Talinn]

Hard to say, frankly the GOP at this point is full of psychos so even if they struck some sort of deal there's no guarantee it wouldn't be sabotaged internally, by the Trump administration or otherwise. 

Meanwhile the Trump administration likely wasn't reducing air traffic enough for people to be safe. Yes they cancelled lots and lots of flights, but I doubt it was enough. 

My stepfather was an air traffic controller. He would never say anything to us because his job stressed him out too much to talk to anyone after work. So I don't know how we haven't had a major plane crash when they haven't been paid in several weeks. 

Even so, Chuck Shumer failed to get his party in line enough for it to matter, I think I would still prefer them to fight but it is what it is. Very difficult calculus though when you think about possible plane crashes...

Edited 8 hours ago by Talinn

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Talinn said:

 

My stepfather was an air traffic controller. He would never say anything to us because his job stressed him out too much to talk to anyone after work. So I don't know how we haven't had a major plane crash when they haven't been paid in several weeks. 
 

 

I don't know how either.  This is a joke. Trump continues to bully people.  The gold news is he can't serve again.  

[Staples]

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

The gold news is he can't serve again.  

 

[Inliytened1]

The tarrifs destroyed Trump. Whether they work 10 years from now mean nothing. Americans needed immediate relief from the disaster of Biden.  Which was a disaster.  But this is worse because it has compounded on the disaster plus the guy is just an asshole.  MAGA is a joke.  MASA (Make America Starve Again) should be the acronym. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Apparition of Jack]

Looking at the reactions a bit more, I still think it’s the right time to get rid of the aging establishment Dems and turn the party into a genuine, economically-progressive movement again.

Whether this specific instance was the right move for the Dems or not I can’t quite say, but the fact that the Dems felt comfortable enough letting America getting into such a shitshow that people’s fucking HEALTHCARE payments are now going to be cut is proof enough that they’ve long since gone past their use-by date and we need some actual pro-worker energy in the country. 
 

Schumer and the rest need to go. They just don’t have the sauce to provide a meaningful resistance to Republican insanity as well as to provide an actual positive, humane vision for the future that isn’t just “desperately try and keep the current system afloat.”

We deserve better.

Edited 7 hours ago by Apparition of Jack

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

Looking at the reactions a bit more, I still think it’s the right time to get rid of the aging establishment Dems and turn the party into a genuine, economically-progressive movement again.

Whether this specific instance was the right move for the Dems or not I can’t quite say, but the fact that the Dems felt comfortable enough letting America getting into such a shitshow that people’s fucking HEALTHCARE payments are now going to be cut is proof enough that they’ve long since gone past their use-by date and we need some actual pro-worker energy in the country. 
 

Schumer and the rest need to go. They just don’t have the sauce to provide a meaningful resistance to Republican insanity as well as to provide an actual positive, humane vision for the future(that isn’t just “desperately try and keep the current system afloat.”

 It’s time we bring some new energy into the country.

It's not Schumer he wanted to hold out.  They should have held out. Had they held out it would have been on Turnp.  Dems cave once again.

[Raze]

 

Schumer is the leader, the purpose is to keep his house in order.

If they are going rogue it’s because he tacitly gave them the go ahead by not threatening to bring the hammer down on them if they break ranks.

Edited 5 hours ago by Raze

[Raze]

On mainstream democrat voter forums they are going apeshit.

2028 is the pivotal moment for a potential Trump style take over of the democrat party. 

Progressives fucked up by not developing a proper mantel bearer who can run. Bernie is too old and AOC isn’t that ambitious and has too much identity politics baggage.

The rogue third party left types could stage an insurgency, the issue is the popular ones went all in on alienating democrats giving them no significant base in the party, and criticizing Ukraine which democrats borderline worship at this point.

Democrat establishment is already trying to cultivate Newsom to counter this.

[Hardkill]

This is another reason why Democratic leadership desperately needs to change.

There are still too many Democrats who have no spine.

[BlueOak]

Dems: Weak party, weaker leadership.
Republicans: Insane Fascists.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by BlueOak

[Elliott]

It's only funded through January, they'll keep doing it until ACA is reinstated. This gives federal workers time to find other jobs, now that they know what's coming again.

This was the longest shutdown so far, it will have serious effects and will kneecap the economy even more. The u.s. government is the largest employer in the country.

We need to shutdown given Republicans rampage, but we can't just nuke ourselves or a single group of innocent people in the process. Shutdowns have lasting consequences.

Medicaid cuts don't start for a year.

Edited 29 minutes ago by Elliott

[BlueOak]

16 minutes ago, Elliott said:

It's only funded through January, they'll keep doing it until ACA is reinstated. This gives federal workers time to find other jobs, now that they know what's coming again.

This was the longest shutdown so far, it will have serious effects and will kneecap the economy even more. The u.s. government is the largest employer in the country.

We need to shutdown given Republicans rampage, but we can't just nuke ourselves or a single group of innocent people in the process. Shutdowns have lasting consequences.

Utter waste of time then.

Republicans get what they want.
Dems cave.

Country shifts right. Same old story.
Might as well end elections now and be done with it.

Edited 34 minutes ago by BlueOak

[Elliott]

8 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

Utter waste of time then.

Republicans get what they want.
Dems cave.

Country shifts right. Same old story.
Might as well end elections now and be done with it.

Democrats just swept the elections.... republicans were elected in charge of everything 2024, not democrats. This is what America voted for, and it's crumbling hard. There's no reason why America will vote republican, none.

Edited 25 minutes ago by Elliott

[BlueOak]

4 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Democrats just swept the elections.... republicans were elected in charge of everything 2024, not democrats. This is what America voted for, and it's crumbling hard.

That's the economic vote.

[Elliott]

7 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

That's the economic vote.

Economic decline has barely started, it's going to only get worse and worse.

Edited 17 minutes ago by Elliott

[BlueOak]

8 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Economic decline has barely started, we're well on our way to a collapse of the dollar, Venezuela or Greece level inflation and turmoil.

Yes. People in positions of luxury don't do well when their living standards are touched.

I predicted Trump will be out because of it awhile back, and nothing he or his bunch of self-elected idiots has done anything to mitigate it. Fascists don't handle economies well. They don't like free anything, not really, not free markets or anything else.

The point I made still stands however.
If on policy, all that will happen is the dems shift constantly more right, so much so they are what the Republicans were 20 years ago, then the wider dynamic hasn't changed at all. - Maybe it will, maybe something in the American psyche is able to shift. The rift between east and west might give breathing room for two ideologies to exist, not just a copy-paste of China and authoritarianism. Which is what we were shifting towards, a unification of east and west requiring one ideology to govern it. Which was incredibly stupid on its face, given the differences in societies, institutions, and culture.  But the dems are still utterly spineless either way. Its like they don't like winning.

And BTW is high time we were able to move past needing synchronised ideologies to have peace. There's more than enough world for different points of view to exist.

Edited 15 minutes ago by BlueOak

[Elliott]

Just now, BlueOak said:

Yes. People in positions of luxury don't do well when their living standards are touched.

I predicted Trump will be out because of it awhile back, and nothing he or his bunch of self-elected idiots has done anything to mitigate it. Fascists don't handle economies well. They don't like free anything, not really, not free markets or anything else.

The point I made still stands however.
If on policy, all that will happen is the dems shift constantly more right, so much so they are what the Republicans were 20 years ago, then the wider dynamic hasn't changed at all. - Maybe it will, maybe something in the American psyche is able to shift. The rift between east and west might give breathing room for two ideologies to exist, not just a copy-paste of China and authoritarianism. Which is what we were shifting towards, a unification of east and west requiring one ideology to govern it. Which was incredibly stupid on its face, given the differences in societies, institutions, and culture.  But the dems are still utterly spineless either way. Its like they don't like winning.

Causing the longest shutdown in history because you're a party out of power fighting for aca, is not "shifting right".

layoff the Hassan podcast.

That's not how politics works, most people are not baristas living at their parents house.

[BlueOak]

4 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Causing the longest shutdown in history because you're a party out of power fighting for aca, is not "shifting right".

layoff the Hassan podcast.

That's not how politics works, most people are not baristas living at their parents house.

layoff the asumptions. I've drifted a political again and haven't even seen his taken on it.

If you can't see American constantly drifting right because dems cave on everything and the republicans are considerably more strong willed, then you are not honestly looking at the dynamic.

Edited 10 minutes ago by BlueOak