Hey Leo, could I check on something you said re dating

[rd5555]

In the forum you said:

"Actually, for you thirsty guys, one of the biggest boss moves you can make is once you got a girl hooked, you withhold sex for a few dates until she is clawing for it like a cat. This will build insane attraction. The only downside is you gotta truly be non-needy, which is hard. Takes skill and experience to pull that off. That's like a grand-master move.

You get her super horny, and then you just drop it and never have sex with her that night.

This is SO powerful that it borders on sadistic mind control. You can totally own her heart with that one. So be careful what you wish for ladies. You just might get it.

Counter-intuitive moves "
 

Just to clarify — are you talking about withholding sex before sleeping with her for the first time, or after you already have slept with her? 

When dating casually I like to move quickly, but when dating for the intention of long term relationships, I prefer to take things slower (Ideally 4-5 dates before sleeping with her, which is usually about 1 month) Does what you describe above work in this context, if i'm not needy? 

I often hear pick-up type advice saying that girls get bored and move on if you don't sleep with them fairly quickly when dating


thanks
 

 

[Raze]

Seems like a bad idea to me. She can feel rejected and will go bang someone else.

[Emerald]

It's a good idea... if done prior to the first time having sex or even if the guy just isn't in the mood. It's a major green flag actually.

It tends to communicate that a man is more stable, mature, and experienced... and he isn't super desperate for sex and has the ability to withhold his sexual energy for the sake of making sure that things feel aligned and "right" for himself. And he makes that decision because that's what feels good to him.

It communicates he has his own sexual boundaries... and higher standards for how he expresses his sexual energy.

And it communicates that he's not desperate for sex. He is capable of leaving it, if he's not in the mood that night or if the dynamic isn't yet aligned.

This also indicates that he will be more likely to be faithful because he can control himself sexually/emotionally and isn't just trying to have sex with whoever he can and whenever he can. It shows that he's able to wield his sexual energy and feelings with a high degree of discipline and mental strength.

But it's better if this is done from a place of genuinely wanting to wait... and not as a performance that a man puts on to manipulate a certain reaction in the woman.

Coming from that place of trying to evoke a reaction of woman, those decisions won't be sovereign decisions... and will still be coming from a needy and desperate "do what the woman wants" place. And a great many women will pick up on that. It won't pass the smell test.

If you want to do it from a genuine place, you can do it from the perspective of, "I will enjoy the sex a lot more if I take actions to make sure she's really yearning for it." instead of, "How can I please her? I know, I'll wait and she'll like me more because I waited."

Those are coming from very different places... and the intention behind the action will be felt.

The main trick is to developing this orientation to sex in a genuine way is to recognize that sex really isn't scarce... and to recognize that you do have many many options. And you must also disambiguate sex from your sense of self-worth... and to disambiguate sex from any kind of Masculine identity you might be trying to construct.

That will put you in a space where you can feel content in a space where you feel detached from sex relative to identity and physical urges... to where you can easily wait several more dates before something happens.

[Jannes]

If you play these games and you overcome the thirst you wont enjoy the sex as much afterwards. 

[Ramasta9]

All this stuff would have no effect to the women I know, this is child's play. They will see through all of it, and don't need any of it.

This is simply what lesser mature males do to manipulate lesser mature females in modern (almost demonic) sex play.

You'll grow out of this stuff eventually, Leo will meet a real woman one day, and she will eat his ego alive.

Edited Sunday at 04:33 AM by Ramasta9

[aurum]

5 hours ago, rd5555 said:

I often hear pick-up type advice saying that girls get bored and move on if you don't sleep with them fairly quickly when dating

Yes, but they can also get bored if you have sex when they weren't really that into it.

That can happen easily.

The key point is that she should really want it. However long it takes to get to that point, it's ideal that you wait.

This will also save you with messy issues around consent.

[Raze]

The issue is after having sex she will rationalize why she had sex and her body releases oxytocin which bonds her to the man. So if you make her wait she can bang someone else who got to it faster and will be more likely to go with him. 

[Zenterus]

On 02/11/2025 at 2:08 AM, Emerald said:

It's a good idea... if done prior to the first time having sex or even if the guy just isn't in the mood. It's a major green flag actually.

It tends to communicate that a man is more stable, mature, and experienced... and he isn't super desperate for sex and has the ability to withhold his sexual energy for the sake of making sure that things feel aligned and "right" for himself. And he makes that decision because that's what feels good to him.

It communicates he has his own sexual boundaries... and higher standards for how he expresses his sexual energy.

And it communicates that he's not desperate for sex. He is capable of leaving it, if he's not in the mood that night or if the dynamic isn't yet aligned.

This also indicates that he will be more likely to be faithful because he can control himself sexually/emotionally and isn't just trying to have sex with whoever he can and whenever he can. It shows that he's able to wield his sexual energy and feelings with a high degree of discipline and mental strength.

But it's better if this is done from a place of genuinely wanting to wait... and not as a performance that a man puts on to manipulate a certain reaction in the woman.

Coming from that place of trying to evoke a reaction of woman, those decisions won't be sovereign decisions... and will still be coming from a needy and desperate "do what the woman wants" place. And a great many women will pick up on that. It won't pass the smell test.

If you want to do it from a genuine place, you can do it from the perspective of, "I will enjoy the sex a lot more if I take actions to make sure she's really yearning for it." instead of, "How can I please her? I know, I'll wait and she'll like me more because I waited."

Those are coming from very different places... and the intention behind the action will be felt.

The main trick is to developing this orientation to sex in a genuine way is to recognize that sex really isn't scarce... and to recognize that you do have many many options. And you must also disambiguate sex from your sense of self-worth... and to disambiguate sex from any kind of Masculine identity you might be trying to construct.

That will put you in a space where you can feel content in a space where you feel detached from sex relative to identity and physical urges... to where you can easily wait several more dates before something happens.

Very powerful perspective here. I really appreciate you @Emerald for being willing to engage with the men here looking for dating advice as a lot of men who are beginning this journey might have misguided views on dating and women - propagated by pickup gurus and redpill shit.

 

As I've developed myself in pickup and dating (10 years in) I've reached this point above where I very often find myself in intimate situations with women yet I genuinely don't feel excited at the opportunity of sealing the deal. This is a result of my extensive casual dating experience which has made me numb to the concept of hooking up unless I truly feel engaged with the woman emotionally and intellectually.

 

However, there's this constant struggle that I feel within. A conflict between my pickup conditioning and this new version of me. Pickup says: "Close the deal! Escalate! You might never see this girl again! Seize the opportunity! If you don't, she'll think you're a pussy and not interested." But then my higher self says: "Eh, i dont really feel like escalating though. Why would I? What has she done to merit that? I dont even know whether I truly like her yet, etc."

 

This typically results in me going through the motions of escalation where it is clear that I'm not really into it and instead performing robotically which is the worst way to go about it. Other times, I just decide to sit back and only go for it when it feels right for me, although this happens the minority of times, to be honest.

 

I want to reach a point in my life where Im fully operating from this aligned space instead of pickup conditioning. I've been in this shit long enough and had enough success in it that if I have yet another "success" it means nothing unless it is aligned to a higher purpose, so I'm still working on finally letting it go. 

[Schizophonia]

Corruption 

[Emerald]

On 11/3/2025 at 7:28 AM, Zenterus said:

Very powerful perspective here. I really appreciate you @Emerald for being willing to engage with the men here looking for dating advice as a lot of men who are beginning this journey might have misguided views on dating and women - propagated by pickup gurus and redpill shit.

As I've developed myself in pickup and dating (10 years in) I've reached this point above where I very often find myself in intimate situations with women yet I genuinely don't feel excited at the opportunity of sealing the deal. This is a result of my extensive casual dating experience which has made me numb to the concept of hooking up unless I truly feel engaged with the woman emotionally and intellectually.

However, there's this constant struggle that I feel within. A conflict between my pickup conditioning and this new version of me. Pickup says: "Close the deal! Escalate! You might never see this girl again! Seize the opportunity! If you don't, she'll think you're a pussy and not interested." But then my higher self says: "Eh, i dont really feel like escalating though. Why would I? What has she done to merit that? I dont even know whether I truly like her yet, etc."

This typically results in me going through the motions of escalation where it is clear that I'm not really into it and instead performing robotically which is the worst way to go about it. Other times, I just decide to sit back and only go for it when it feels right for me, although this happens the minority of times, to be honest.

I want to reach a point in my life where Im fully operating from this aligned space instead of pickup conditioning. I've been in this shit long enough and had enough success in it that if I have yet another "success" it means nothing unless it is aligned to a higher purpose, so I'm still working on finally letting it go. 

Thank you!

I can see just on this thread the a mixture of scarcity-thinking and pick-up ideas play into the "Close the deal now or she'll get bored" idea. 

And that perspective is still coming from the illusion of scarcity... which causes men to not have many sexual standards to avoid losing the chance to sleep with a woman. 

And for men who haven't had a lot of experience with women, it makes sense that there would be a fear of letting go of the opportunity for a hook-up.

But if the goal is to become an attractive man in a more holistic sense where the man radiates a very positive Masculine energy (which goes far beyond just pick-up techniques), one of the best things a guy can do is to be able to channel his sexual energy well and develop a more detached relationship with sex, where he can take it or leave it.

And this enables him to raise his standards. And people who have higher standards are much more attractive than those with lower standards. That is most especially true for men.

And from the discerning female perspective, men who come across as attractive are men who have a high libido... but also have high standards and a lot of control over how his libidinal energy is channelled. The metaphor that I like to use is that an attractive man is a fierce lion and expert lion tamer all in one.

One of my main issues with pick-up is that it may work for the purposes of sleeping with women through the numbers game, but it doesn't really teach a man how to be an attractive man in a more holistic sense.

It's more like, "Here's how to get a small percentage of women to sleep with you." instead of, "Here is what a man who exudes positive Masculine energy is like."

The former tends to come from the place of "How do I have to be for a percentage of women to be attracted enough to me to sleep with me."

And the latter comes from a wholesome self-focused place where a man invests in himself to make himself feel more fulfilled in life. And this is what makes a man exude a general attractiveness and admirability in the eyes of many women... as a side benefit.

[Leo Gura]

On 11/1/2025 at 2:46 PM, rd5555 said:

Just to clarify — are you talking about withholding sex before sleeping with her for the first time, or after you already have slept with her? 

Well, could be either, but there's less point in doing it later on once she is already yours.

Quote

When dating casually I like to move quickly, but when dating for the intention of long term relationships, I prefer to take things slower (Ideally 4-5 dates before sleeping with her, which is usually about 1 month) Does what you describe above work in this context, if i'm not needy? 

I often hear pick-up type advice saying that girls get bored and move on if you don't sleep with them fairly quickly when dating

Waiting 4-5 dates or a month is a long time.

She could definitely take that as a sign that you are uncertain or don't like her very much. She could even turn to another guy because she is probably horny during that month.

2-3 dates is more than enough.

But the best way is to read her mood and receptivity. You should easily tell just from how she reacts to you touching her how open and ready she is for sex.

Start groping her and see how far she lets you go. It's as simple as that. You should be groping her from day 1.

Edited 13 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Miguel1]

On 03/11/2025 at 2:28 PM, Zenterus said:

I want to reach a point in my life where Im fully operating from this aligned space instead of pickup conditioning. I've been in this shit long enough and had enough success in it that if I have yet another "success" it means nothing unless it is aligned to a higher purpose, so I'm still working on finally letting it go. 

Since you only have 7 post, I’m gonna assume you are fairly new here and havent bumped into this post:

I was reminded of this, so I thought I would share it for you. You are not alone in feeling like this.

At least me and OJ shared our experience with this on the thread. Check it out brother.

[Miguel1]

@Emerald Thank you for the insights, they are a great reminder for myself to keep grounded and in integrity, now that I’m entering the dating market again after many years.

[Zenterus]

@Miguel1 

33 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Since you only have 7 post, I’m gonna assume you are fairly new here and havent bumped into this post:

I was reminded of this, so I thought I would share it for you. You are not alone in feeling like this.

At least me and OJ shared our experience with this on the thread. Check it out brother.

Hey man, I actually started the thread you posted and read all the replies. I appreciate your input!

[Miguel1]

@Zenterus Oh, my bad!

It’s good to have others who are in the same stage of the journey with the whole sex game. Can get very lonely with all the unconsciousness around it, and as you said, the pick up programming.