meta_male

I'm running out of ammo in dating.

33 posts in this topic

8 hours ago, meta_male said:

I grew up in a social environment where women actively hit on me and invested first. I know what it feels like to be wanted by the opposite sex. So when I say it's one sided it's not just my perception, it's a before and after contrast. I know what mutual effort and interest feel like.

Since leaving that environment, I haven't been able to recreate anything close to it in the past decade, and that's part of why the current dating dynamic feels brutally one sided. Now I'm trying to figure out how to stomach a system where that kind of reciprocity seems to have vanished.

Yeah bro, you were coasting on social circles that society set up for you as a kid.

That shit is over now.

In the real world, you have to build what you want. No one is just going to hand you an exceptional dating life.

Ask yourself: if the future love of my life was watching my behavior right now, what would she think?

Would she see a man she could potentially surrender to take care of her?

Or someone pining for the good ol' days when things were easier and taken care of for you?

Your complaining is not going to feed her children. Or protect her in a violent situation.

Either find a way to produce results or accept that you're just not cut out for this.


"Finding your reason can be so deceiving, a subliminal place. 

I will not break, 'cause I've been riding the curves of these infinity words and so I'll be on my way. I will not stay.

 And it goes On and On, On and On"

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In these types of posts, we always need more information.

What type of women are you pursuing? Be objective. How attractive are they compared to you? (I'm just saying this because you'd be surprised how many people pursue extremely attractive individuals, yet they themselves aren't investing in themselves. Think about the stereotype of an "incel" or "femcel" pursuing an attractive partner and then getting frustrated. I also don't mean just lookswise, but overall.) Again, I’m not saying this is you, but I want to address it up front because it happens more often than people realize.

How many women are you actually approaching per day? First, track how many women you approach daily. Be objective and honest. Sometimes, you'd be surprised how many people say they talk to women but actually only approach 5-20 women in a year or even less. Then, they extrapolate this small sample and assume they’re unwanted. You want that number to be as high as possible. Think of it like someone applying to only 5-20 jobs in a year and assuming they’re unemployable.

Once you address volume, it matters how you’re approaching them. How are you approaching them? How charming or pleasant would you say you are? How many different tactics or places do you test each week? (For example: day game vs night game, dating apps, meeting during mutual hobbies, bars, restaurants, through friends, workplace, etc.) The equivalent would be a person sending out 500+ job applications with the same CV, no personalization, not iterating the CV after every 30+ rejections, and not exploring different ways to get into companies.

Lastly, what do you even want? How authentic would you say you are? Make sure you’re clear on that. If you just want sex, then places where you meet more promiscuous women would likely give you a better chance. Some guys tell themselves they only want sex but end up pursuing women they want for a deeper relationship, or vice versa. They have higher standards but all they really want is validation and sex. Be clear on your goal.

TL;DR: This is a process, almost like a job hunt. You can dissect each part of it and troubleshoot until you find the "faulty" areas or the reasons you're failing.

  1. Who are you (your values, traits, personality, looks, social skills, communication, confidence, masculine/feminine traits)? Rank yourself objectively.
  2. What do you want? Is it a quick, shallow interaction, casual sex, friends with benefits, something more kinky, short-term, long-term, or a life partner? Depending on your answer, you can define your standards more clearly. What woman do you want?
  3. How many women are you speaking to per day? Can you increase that volume? Why or why not?
  4. What are the personalities of these women? Where are you meeting them? Does that match the type of personality you want in a potential partner? If yes, can you find more places like that? If not, how can you adjust and move?
  5. When you talk to them, how would you rate your interactions? How awkward or "autistic" do you feel? What are their objective responses? Are they excited, confused, uncomfortable, coy, flaky? If you have issues here, troubleshoot: learn to be more confident, practice alone, record yourself (audio/video), get help from others, or find a charismatic wingman (guy or girl) to mirror and learn from until you get better, even copying the conversation style of someone on YouTube or social media that you like can work too. You need a good reference point for what confidence and charm look like.
  6. How many numbers, Instagram follows, replies, or follow-ups are you getting? This is another objective measure.
  7. How good are you at following up with them? How firm and confident do you sound? Honestly, I’d even suggest that if a girl isn’t interested but still seems friendly, ask her (or a friend) for objective feedback on why she wasn’t into you. This can help you improve.
  8. How confident are you when it comes to pursuing sex? Some guys self-sabotage because they’re subconsciously too worried about performing well, so even if they could have been more assertive, they detour and hold back.

There are so many factors in this...😓 It's tough to know exactly what’s going wrong. If you’re feeling lost, try getting someone to come with you and observe your approach to give you feedback. You can even ask here for more specific advice. But if you don’t have someone, troubleshoot each step of the process until you can pinpoint the "blind spots" that are holding you back.

10 hours ago, meta_male said:

Women get to sit back, do jackshit and just choose. Meanwhile men gotta do 95% of the work for near zero return. The effort is so high none of the outcomes feel even remotely worth it.

Also, be careful not to fall into a victim mentality. Women might have it easier when it comes to pursuing, but they face many challenges too. They more frequently face challenges like love bombing, manipulation, potential assault, not receiving genuine commitment, being treated unequally, and being seen as just sex objects, among other things. You’re focusing on one aspect of the dating scene and getting frustrated because it seems like others have it easier, but you're overlooking the other struggles they face. It's like saying, 'Look at that software engineer making a 100k salary, I wish... his life must be so easy' without considering the stress of the job.

I’m not saying this to make you feel ungrateful or bad, just trying to shift you out of a victim mindset.

7 hours ago, meta_male said:

But it doesn't stop the mental loop. This stuff is in my head 24/7. My whole life revolves around it. Whether I like it or not, a huge part of my self worth seems to be tied to how women respond to me.

Again, you said it yourself, you want this, and it won't go away, and that’s completely okay. So, ignore excuses, take responsibility, and troubleshoot. Iterate on all the aspects mentioned above, treat it as a process, have an objective way to track and evaluate yourself, and keep improving. Worst case scenario, you’ll become an incredible communicator and work on your self-improvement, which I truly doubt won’t lead to success with women, too! Good luck! xD

Edited by Xonas Pitfall

! 💫. . . ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ . . . 🃜 🃚 🃖 🃁 🂭 🂺 . . . ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ . . .🧀 !

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4 hours ago, aurum said:

Yeah bro, you were coasting on social circles that society set up for you as a kid.

That shit is over now.

In the real world, you have to build what you want. No one is just going to hand you an exceptional dating life.

Ask yourself: if the future love of my life was watching my behavior right now, what would she think?

Would she see a man she could potentially surrender to take care of her?

Or someone pining for the good ol' days when things were easier and taken care of for you?

Your complaining is not going to feed her children. Or protect her in a violent situation.

Either find a way to produce results or accept that you're just not cut out for this.

🎯


Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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12 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Interesting you see OP having had issues integrating the feminine - I see more issues with integrating the masculine from past posts. 

IE unable to assert ones self without force. Or calmly approach arguments without a lot of heated assumptions and language 

That points to me that existing from the masculine frame is newer and less integrated. 

If you have feedback feel free to address me directly instead of analysing from the sidelines. This side of me is definitely newer and probably overcompensated at times, yeah.

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@meta_male Awesome! I've been letting this one cook a bit to try to properly formulate what I am picking up on :)

I think your answer to @Xonas Pitfall might assist me as well.

I tend to formulate proper observations based on how others interact when there is a bit at stake, which has its own downfalls. So straight answers can supplement. Having said that my advice may not be as actionable. Just due to me being a woman - and that gives me a limited perspective.


Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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11 hours ago, aurum said:

Ask yourself: if the future love of my life was watching my behavior right now, what would she think?

This is a great question. I was thinking of it right now.

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I think the immediate thing that comes to mind me with is: purpose - drive. Where are to driving hard in life and what is your vision? Aside from a relationship. Most of the successful men I know who have women sort of running at them with their cooch out are so focused on their personal vision and purpose, the ladies sniff it out like dogs in heat.

I suppose I view that (life purpose and actualizing) as a large part of masculinity.

In addition - some of the overcompensate behavior I have witnessed on the forum leads me to believe you have some issues asserting yourself with stoicism and firm grace - rather than a sort of bulldozing force. That force can be great in masculine dynamics but isn't required, and is often a marker of masculinity that isn't quite comfortable - yet. Almost like you aren't as familiar with that energy so it is used with a little too much.. ah! Spice? I see a few times you have been so charged up with emotion and a need to defend it has led to assumptions that shoot one in the foot. Typically, integrated and healthy masculine is very calm. Normally one would see the assumptions before feeling so charged the compulsion to reply was unable to be resisted.

I say this from a discerning eye - I mean no judgement as I am a total piece of shit in my own devilish ways... :P 

My view comes from working in commercial construction - I see all types and levels of integrated masculine. I have to work with them regardless of their stage of development. While this doesn't make me an expert in any way, the above is just after having observed men in a very male dominated environment - one of the last bastions of men. I look to how I respond from the feminine - if I am working with a man who is really integrated and strong in healthy masculinity I can be as out there flamboyant as a woman as I like and still get shit done. Still garner respect. And above all, feel safe working with them. 

So, when assessing someone else I look to my experience and contrast my state in reaction with theirs. 


Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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22 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Most of the successful men I know who have women sort of running at them with their cooch out are so focused on their personal vision and purpose, the ladies sniff it out like dogs in heat.

This is the key. Having something more important in one's life other than women. It is the advice of top dating books which I have read - not to make women the purpose of your life. Even though before reading those books I tried to have my career more important than the opposite gender and this I have learned after painful circumstances in my life.

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8 minutes ago, Rishabh R said:

This is the key. Having something more important in one's life other than women. It is the advice of top dating books which I have read - not to make women the purpose of your life. Even though before reading those books I tried to have my career more important than the opposite gender and this I have learned after painful circumstances in my life.

Absolutely - and it doesn't have to be your job. It can just be something like a hobby. A personal project that you are so totally into the passion draws others in. People are seduced by passion and creative force. Women (or men) or relationships in general come as a byproduct in my experience.


Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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1 minute ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Absolutely - and it doesn't have to be your job. It can just be something like a hobby. A personal project that you are so totally into the passion draws others in. People are seduced by passion and creative force. Women (or men) or relationships in general come as a byproduct in my experience.

Yeah, it is the side effect not the cause and also it can be one's career or hobby or something else other than relationships.

I have also realized from my experience (even though I have never been in a relationship ) that when one stop chasing the external -the person stops falling into the trap of hedonic treadmill and fulfillment increases. For example thinking that -If I could get something then I would be happy.

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40 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

In addition - some of the overcompensate behavior I have witnessed on the forum leads me to believe you have some issues asserting yourself with stoicism and firm grace - rather than a sort of bulldozing force.

Agreed, I can definitely bulldoze my way through at times and then become resentful. Old wiring that isn't needed anymore.

I'll work through @Xonas Pitfall's questions bit later when I got more time, some good points have been raised in his post.

I could reach out to 3 girls right this second but I got a mental block that prevents me from doing so, depending on my state. Same with doing more approaches. Romantic idealism. I get out of that state when I'm in my zone, which is my hobby. At the same time there's a sort of panic surfacing when I immerse myself in anything other than figuring out dating. My mind goes: "You built your life from scratch for a decade and still lacking in your love life, you're way off track."

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28 minutes ago, meta_male said:

 "You built your life from scratch for a decade and still lacking in your love life, you're way off track."

No way man, you are erasing the truth of behind your own statement. It's staring you in the face:

'You built your life from scratch, you can do the same shit with your love life with that same attitude, and the skills you learnt from that process'

It will 100% be about the life you are building - and bringing a woman into that. Showing her what you created. Showing her what you can share. But being clear about who you are and remaining true to all other commitments. That is your masculine power and what you might need to realize. You have that world you have created - now you just want to bring a woman into it and show her what you built from nothing on your own. Even just writing that above sparks my own feminine excitement.

I tried online dating for a while. You touched on that. I am pretty mature now with good boundaries and healed attachment issues. And I had to get off dating websites. I found them to attract people who had unformed senses of self and really big attachment issues - either avoidant or anxious. People looking to me to fill some void or emptiness. That really took my energy and passion away. I need to be with someone who has a good sense of self and boundaries. Who is secure and won't fall to pieces without me, but wants to share and be able to give AND receive love. A lot of men are incapable of giving and receiving love. Just my 2c there but maybe this is an insight into the mindset of a woman who had a social circle when younger. I leveraged off that - got older. Healed. Found mates had all paired off, kids. The last 2 long term relationships I found - one during a dance class, the other in a writing workshop. Both exciting hobbies where I wasn't looking. Hookups were a byproduct of passion for experience.

I am a strong visualizer (like I use it to visualize the building constructed and handed over to drive hard for deadlines/budget). Not sure if you ever try to think on how you envision a woman in your life, your space? What that might look like. How would you be? If you can do that and see you being as you are now, no changes - you are on the right path.


Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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