Currently in China — Ask Me Anything

[ivarmaya]

Hey everyone,

I’m spending some time in China right now. I came hopeful, open minded and I’ll remain that way.

But I must say, being here has made me realize the tremendous value of democracy.

I’m not naive. I know I have a limited lens for understanding a society this complex, especially without speaking the language or being raised here.

Still, I’ve seen many fundamental things I hadn’t realized before coming.

For context, I’ve spent a lot of time studying developmental psychology, consciousness, culture, and systems thinking, so I tend to look at places from a more meta and developmental perspective, but I’m also just a vulnerable human, and that has been my biggest source of insight.

Ask me anything.

(Posted from a VPN.)

Edited Friday at 11:01 PM by ivarmaya

[Raze]

How censored is the internet? Aren’t vpns illegal?

[ivarmaya]

Yeah, it’s pretty censored. Not just the obvious stuff like news or politics, but the entire digital ecosystem is sealed off. Most Western platforms like Google, YouTube, Instagram, WhatsApp, Twitter and Netflix simply don’t exist here. Even Actualized.org is blocked.

What’s interesting is that the system no longer needs to force people to stay inside it. Life inside runs so smoothly that most people never want to leave. Comfort becomes the cage.

VPNs aren’t legal, and they even tried to block me from Alipay and WeChat, which are basically the only ways to pay for anything here.

[Basman]

How did China make you miss democracy exactly?

[sholomar]

How clean is everything? How is the crime? Despite not having as much freedom I get the sense that autocratic nations at least enforce laws better and people behave themselves because they know there are consequences for their actions.  What is the cost of living for actual chinese people, not western influencers earning US dollars and spending them in China.... are we making any progress at average middle class people able to get ahead on this planet or is it more of  the same, where the top 10% can buy up everything using the central bank money printing, cantillon effect, and existing wealth to leverage, while the wages of the working class don't keep up with the rate of inflation?  Do they have to work 60-80 hours a week just to be able to support themselves? 

What is the worst thing about living there you've noticed so far if you did live there and were a born citizen?   I watch "Because I'm Lizzy" youtube videos and they tend to just show the positives whereas SerpentZA & Laowhy86 seem to peddle bullshit but in a negative light. 

Edited yesterday at 01:51 PM by sholomar

[enchanted]

 @ivarmaya what things in China made you appreciate democracy?

[ivarmaya]

20 hours ago, Basman said:

How did China make you miss democracy exactly?

 

1 hour ago, enchanted said:

 @ivarmaya what things in China made you appreciate democracy?

A culture that grows up with democracy has a certain flavour to it. There’s this looseness, a tolerance for contradiction, an ease with diversity. People learn to speak their minds, to disagree, to laugh at power, to play with ideas without fear. It’s not that democracy creates art or originality, it just gives them room to exist. When fear lessens, play increases….and when we play, there is life.

What I’ve been missing here is the messiness, the diversity of thought, the freedom to be weird, the art, the originality, the playfulness.

Now it’s deeply Orange….imagine an authoritarian America without the art, the rebellion, irony or the touch of Green that makes it human.

Everything works, but it works too well. It’s clean, efficient, orderly, and somehow lifeless. You gain safety and order but lose the very things worth keeping safety and order for….originality, art, creativity, soul.

It kind of feels like living in a giant family dinner party where everyone’s trying to save face. Polite, everything is all good, but underneath, no one’s really saying what they feel.

That’s what made me appreciate democracy again, not as politics but as some sort of “sacred mess” where real life, art, and real humanitycan actually to breathe.

(This is not to say that, as an example the democratic system in the US is not deeply flawed, it is and needs many improvements.) 

Obviously, my take is a luxury. The last 30 years, China’s been sprinting away from literal physical survival, so as a society they’ve had totally different priorities. But once survival is secured, the next evolution isn’t more control but remembering what all that effort was for in the first place.

I should say, I haven’t been here long, so maybe I’m projecting to some extent and time will reveal more nuance (it’ll definitely reveal something), but this is my intuitive impression so far. I will consciously try not to let that initial impression shape how I see everything else going forward.

And of course my take is shaped by my values and state of development, this will not represent the experience or what’s best for everybody.

Edited 12 hours ago by ivarmaya

[BlueOak]

1) What is it actually like visiting their cultural centers? I'm after the experience itself as tangible as you can make it.

2) How are they treating you as a general rule?

[Basman]

I think many progressive end up taking the liberal tradition for granted because they are so fixated on criticizing the establishment. 

[Leo Gura]

How do you get around there without knowing the language?

[Majed]

@ivarmaya It's time to pick up them chinese ladies. Haha

[Ash55]

6 hours ago, ivarmaya said:

worth keeping safety and order for….originality, art, creativity, soul.

soulless,  wow that sounds horrible

Did you get to meet an artist there or not yet?

What places have you visited ?

Have you seen anything too high tech in your trip so far?

Are people happy there ?

Have you seen any sign of poverty how do poor people live there ?

and btw how is xi jinping ?