Sadhguru on Dr k

[Recursoinominado]

4 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Ramana was dragged kicking and screaming from his cave by his followers.

That's accurate. People flock to higher beings like flies to a lamp in the dark. 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

"Scientific scrutiny: Some scientific studies have been conducted and promoted by the foundation to support the health benefits of its practices. However, other studies examining Inner Engineering have had mixed results, with some finding no significant difference between participants and a control group. "

Thank you ChatGPT for teaching us how science works and that virtually all of behavioral science has mixed results and that even in biomedical science, up to 80% of studies in some cases fail to be replicated.

If you want to make a good scientific basis for Inner Engineering, you need more studies and more high-quality studies such as the one I linked, and ironically then you also need more money.

 

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

If a used car salesman sells you a car as a "mint luxury sports car", and it turns out to be a bit crappy, the car still 'helped' you, it kept you from walking, but he still conned you. Why do you think Leo took his course? To meditate?

How do you think you become enlightened? And as Leo himself alluded to, there are different levels of the Inner Engineering program or the Isha system in general. Sadhguru has explicitly said there are things he is holding back and saving only for those that are ready because they are that destabilizing and transformative.

That's what is missing in the individualistic New Age spirituality embraced on this forum — institutional boundaries and safety mechanisms. That's what old religions have, because they realized over the thousands of years that spirituality is no joke. Today, you only realize it for yourself when it's maybe too late.

You think you can take a loaded gun of spiritual technology and play around with it willy-nilly? And you think this should be open source and that anybody who wants to maybe keep people from hurting themselves maybe irreversibly must be conmen? Go read about spiritual emergencies, go read about kundalini crises, go read about people who hospitalize themselves with psychedelics. Sadhguru and all spiritual "high priests" in history are doing you a massive favor. Places like Actualized.org, that's the real experiment.

Edited October 11 by Carl-Richard

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

That's what is missing in the individualistic New Age spirituality embraced on this forum — institutional boundaries and safety mechanisms. That's what old religions have, because they realized over the thousands of years that spirituality is no joke. Today, you only realize it for yourself when it's maybe too late.

I know this is side tracking a bit but this is so true. I am not for organised religion, but the guardrails some of these ancient traditions have in place are there for a VERY good reason.

Too often people think gatekeeping teachings or information is a power play & end up frustrated or infuriated - no. It is there to protect until ready. 

[Elliott]

 

Quote

How do you think you become enlightened? And as Leo himself alluded to, there are different levels of the Inner Engineering program or the Isha system in general. Sadhguru has explicitly said there are things he is holding back and saving only for those that are ready because they are that destabilizing and transformative.

I still say you're making a false dilemma, it's irrelevant how one becomes enlightened, what's relevant is if Sahdgurus method works, if it does, well awesome I apologize. Just show an example that it does though, because that's what it's sold as.

Quote

That's what is missing in the individualistic New Age spirituality embraced on this forum — institutional boundaries and safety mechanisms. That's what old religions have, because they realized over the thousands of years that spirituality is no joke. Today, you only realize it for yourself when it's maybe too late.

 

Quote

You think you can take a loaded gun of spiritual technology and play around with it willy-nilly? And you think this should be open source and that anybody who wants to maybe keep people from hurting themselves maybe irreversibly must be conmen? Go read about spiritual emergencies, go read about kundalini crises, go read about people who hospitalize themselves with psychedelics. Sadhguru and all spiritual "high priests" in history are doing you a massive favor.

I think spiritual enlightenment is fake. I believe in all the different radical spiritual experiences and agree with you about doing them safely, that's not the issue I have with this.

Edited October 11 by Elliott

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

Sahdguru claims to be enlightened, leading others to this. If you can enlighten people, everyone on the planet will be an environmentalist. There would be no need for him to charge Leo just so he can plant trees.

"False dilemma fallacy". You can only enlighten so many people at one time and people need food and some need food in order to become enlightened. It's like you're trying to fit the whole of reality into a two-variable equation.

Edited October 11 by Carl-Richard

[Jodistrict]

3 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I know this is side tracking a bit but this is so true. I am not for organised religion, but the guardrails some of these ancient traditions have in place are there for a VERY good reason.

Too often people think gatekeeping teachings or information is a power play & end up frustrated or infuriated - no. It is there to protect until ready. 

You needed to be a monk for 20 years to learn things like non duality.   But now we can get the information on the Internet.  I think that cat is already out of the bag.  

[Elliott]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

"False dilemma fallacy". You can only enlighten so many people at one time and people need food and some need food in order to become enlightened. It's like you're trying to fit the whole of reality into a two-variable equation.

So, you would take time from enlightening people for environmentalism? I just don't think so.

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I still say you're making a false dillema, it's irrelevant how one becomes enlightened, what's relevant is if Sahdgurus method does, if it does, well awesome I apologize. Just show an example that it does though, because that's what it's sold as.

That's where you look at testimonies because I doubt there are many studies looking at e.g. DMN activity and The Hood Mysticism Scale in advanced practicioners in Isha (feel free to find them). But I have zero doubt that Sadhguru's methods work, because they're fundamentally the same as other methods that do work. And I personally claim to be able to read energy, call me crazy. If you want to be a knitpicker, go dig up testimonies, there are probably millions out there.

 

6 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I think spiritual enlightenment is fake. I believe in all the different radical spiritual experiences and agree with you about doing them safely, that's not the issue I have with this.

Mkay, so Buddha is fake, Ramana Maharshi is fake, Jesus, Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle, it's all conmen the entire way down? You believe you can have spiritual experiences but that there is no growth, no integration, no plateaus, only unstable, random flux?

[Elliott]

10 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

That's where you look at testimonies because I doubt there are many studies looking at e.g. DMN activity and The Hood Mysticism Scale in advanced practicioners in Isha (feel free to find them). But I have zero doubt that Sadhguru's methods work, because they're fundamentally the same as other methods that do work. And I personally claim to be able to read energy, call me crazy. If you want to be a knitpicker, go dig up testimonies, there are probably millions out there.

I'm just asking for a person, like a video of someone explaining something profound.

Quote

Mkay, so Buddha is fake, Ramana Maharshi is fake, Jesus, Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle, it's all conmen the entire way down? You believe you can have spiritual experiences but that there is no growth, no integration, no plateaus, only unstable, random flux?

No. They don't sell enlightenment. Even Sadhguru helps people, I like his teachings actually.

I don't think their enlightenment is from spiritual experience. I'm skeptical about Tolle and Ramana being enlightened. I think you can grow from spiritual experiences.

Edited October 11 by Elliott

[Carl-Richard]

18 minutes ago, Elliott said:

So, you would take time from enlightening people for environmentalism? I just don't think so.

My guy, he has already created Inner Engineering. It's not like it needs to be constantly re-invented or updated like some computer software. It's the same software from 30 000 years ago. And doing massive environmental movements, arguably the most massive ones in history, is amazing for garnering recognition. Again, the two-variable lens.

Besides, how many more Dhyanalingas or Shiva statues do you need to create? The common theme here is casting a wide net and trying out different solutions. His environmental movement is helping his project of enlightening people. You can disagree with his methods but to call him a conman is flat out ridiculous in my not-so-humble energy-reading New-Age-but-not-New-Age opinion.

Edited October 11 by Carl-Richard

[Natasha Tori Maru]

16 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

You needed to be a monk for 20 years to learn things like non duality.   But now we can get the information on the Internet.  I think that cat is already out of the bag.  

My point still stands.

You have to build solid foundation before you swing from the highest treetops - or you will topple and fall from rotton roots.

False meaning is derived from truths learned too soon, so some of those guardrails exist to avoid that.

[Carl-Richard]

13 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I'm just asking for a person, like a video of someone explaining something profound.

Lmao sure. I haven't watched those videos, you can go find them yourself if you're genuinely curious and not simply trying to "hah I won the argument because he didn't use the YouTube search bar for me".

 

13 minutes ago, Elliott said:

No. They don't sell enlightenment.

Rupert Spira sells enlightenment. He does events. But this is still just weak "making money on enlightenment means conman". Inb4 Leo drops the newest course on Alien Awakening or whatever.

 

13 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I don't think their enlightenment is from spiritual experience.

I don't know what that means.

 

13 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I'm skeptical about Tolle being enlightened.

Everybody is skeptical about Tolle, he is like the scapegoat for guru skeptics.

Edited October 11 by Carl-Richard

[Elliott]

8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

 

Rupert Spira sells enlightenment. He does events. But this is still just weak, "making money on enlightenment means conman". Inb4 Leo drops the newest course on Alien Awakening or whatever.

He sells stuff, but not enlightenment.

 

I quit looking into Tolle, I don't mean it as an attack.

Edited October 11 by Elliott

[Carl-Richard]

8 minutes ago, Elliott said:

He sells stuff, but not enlightenment.

..wha?

Edited October 11 by Carl-Richard

[Elliott]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

..wha?

He sells guided meditations and books, but he doesn't hide his 'enlightenment sauce' behind a paywall.

[Jodistrict]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

My point still stands.

You have to build solid foundation before you swing from the highest treetops - or you will topple and fall from rotton roots.

False meaning is derived from truths learned too soon, so some of those guardrails exist to avoid that.

I agree.  I am just saying that all information that use to be secret is now out there.   There was a wisdom to keeping it secret.  One can see how non duality has turned into a dogma with people flippantly saying they are god.  

[Salvijus]

9 hours ago, Hojo said:

@Salvijus If you haven't manifested anything with energy and haven't manifested anything without energy then its totally relevant. Because it means you are talking out your ass. That means a fart has more value than this input. You are farting at me.

It's irrelevant because it's not about me. It's about whether or not sadhguru's teachings contradict with the Law of exchange which is a universally accepted truth across all spiritual traditions and visible by science itself. And you claimed that he did. But failed to defend that position. And now you're trying to move the goalpost. 

Edited October 11 by Salvijus

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, Elliott said:

He sells guided meditations and books, but he doesn't hide his 'enlightenment sauce' behind a paywall.

He sells retreats and events just like Isha does with the Inner Engineering retreats, he sells guided meditations and books, yes, and he also sells tickets to online webinars and livestreams, he has a subscription for a video archive for £16/month or £160/year and individual buying options (£7.20 per audio, £10.80 per video), but selling online courses is suddenly what pushes you into "conman" territory? Why?

There is so much free content out there of Sadhguru giving talks, interviews, Satsangs, group meditations, free events like Mahashivrati, but him providing some paid online courses (given you're not living in the slums), that's stepping over the line, that's him paywalling his enlightenment sauce. Mhm.

[Ishanga]

10 hours ago, Hojo said:

@Ishanga Only he can manipulate people in his ashram. I know everything about sadhguru cause I was manipulated. I awaken without sadhguru and needed help and all he did was shove random bs in my brain. Leo helps. Sahdguru says random bs and confused me.

I didnt choose sadhguru it showed up in my feed and I listened to him and he is talking about stuff that I experienced.

He contradicts himself so much. He said he went to the un meeting to save the soil and no one cared. Why not make them care? He says he has the power to.

There are plenty of people that say the earth can't be saved and don't try to save it. That its a construct literally meant to fuck with you.

This interview threw me off this is not someone who is present and respectable to everyone. It reminds of the time destiny debated that one old teacher who just sat there and lectured him.

I've heard like 50 stories where people said his ashram sucked.

There is the saying if you meet a guru on the road kill him. Thats what sadhguru is a guru on the road. Looking for people to worship him. Sadhguru is the only guru on the road.

Incorrect, he is not looking for ppl to worship him, you actually think a person like him, with his intelligence and charisma is just look for ppl to bow down to him and that this turns him on after 30yrs of doing this? Come on Man, your just a disgruntled user and it shows, your main thing in life is this forum it seems which is super sad!

There's video of him saying he doesn't care on a personal level what happens, he is just doing what needs to be done, while here with a body and mind to use.

As well thousdands upon thousands of ppl visit his ashram in India daily, out of all that for sure there will be some that do not like it, that is just the way it is, to list it here and say "See he is a fraud" is nuts, its just bound to happen...

What's happening here, with all the naysayers of Sadhguru just shows the crazy the is in in this world, the man is working himself to death to improve the situation here and ppl put him down for it, its just crazy, and its getting worse by the day...

Edited October 11 by Ishanga

[Elliott]

29 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

He sells retreats and events just like Isha does with the Inner Engineering retreats, he sells guided meditations and books, yes, and he also sells tickets to online webinars and livestreams, he has a subscription for a video archive for £16/month or £160/year and individual buying options (£7.20 per audio, £10.80 per video), but selling online courses is suddenly what pushes you into "conman" territory? Why?

There is so much free content out there of Sadhguru giving talks, interviews, Satsangs, group meditations, free events like Mahashivrati, but him providing some paid online courses (given you're not living in the slums), that's stepping over the line, that's him paywalling his enlightenment sauce. Mhm.

No

Do you disagree with the Sadhguru supporters in this thread that repeatedly say Sadhgurus free public teachings lack depth?

You seem to just keep looking past what I say my reservation is with Sadhguru. Spira puts his enlightenment teachings out up front for free, Sadhguru hides his supposed deep teachings behind a paywall: you don't see a difference between Spira and Sadhguru in this regard?

I have no problem with spiritual teachers making money. I have no problem with Isha charging for yoga. I feel like you're assuming I mean something that I don't, I actually don't see any Sadhguru haters in this thread opposing what your argument centers on.

Edited October 11 by Elliott