Leo Gura

Who Wants Actualized Psychedelic Retreats?

731 posts in this topic

7 hours ago, Davino said:

That's totally right if you're talking about the horizontal dimension of spirituality.

That's totally wrong if you're talking about the vertical dimension of spirituality.

Right, that's why you had to come up with that vertical and horizontal BS - to set the way for the subsequent argument. 

Quote

The reason why chemicals matter in the vertical dimension is because you're breaking through every limit, physical, mental, existential, etc. You are unlocking the Rubik's Cube of existence towards infinity and that involves jailbraking the workings of this particular universe and beyond.

That's "process."

7 hours ago, Davino said:

Returning to the main topic, you should note psychedelics are geared towards the highest peaks of consciousness and Infinity. If you're interested more into the everpresent buzzing being of existence, maybe these type of experience will not give you what you're looking for (maybe they give you something better or not, but it's not directly what you're searching for a priori)

The premise is wrong. Drugs, by definition, are completely indirect. You are still referring to states and experiences™️. Take a look at the assumptions behind terms such as "highest peaks", "baseline state of consciousness," "buzzing being", "geared towards", and even "consciousness" and "infinity."

Edited by UnbornTao

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@Leo Gura Didn't you say that your consciousness is influenced by chemicals, that "psychedelics already produce higher consciousness than enlightenment," and that brain activity and consciousness are totally related?

Hmmm...

Edited by UnbornTao

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Just now, UnbornTao said:

@Leo Gura Didn't you say that your consciousness is influenced by chemicals and that "Psychedelics already produce higher consciousness than  enlightenment"?

Hmmm...

You guys are still trying to win an argument, which alone reduces your state of consciousness already.


JHWH·LILA·VIBV

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19 hours ago, Water by the River said:

That which is truly aware doesn't come and go. Sometimes "it" has nothing to be aware of. I see this deep intuition in your posts, and why you value Ralstons material so much because of that. In my view, that comes deeply from your soul, and I consider it as a very precious intuition of your soul.

And THAT which is aware watches all the Ant/Human/Alien/Divine Being "individuality" (aka consciousness), which is nothing else than the subjective appearing side of the nondual whole. It is still an arising in the dream...

For me its perfectly clear why Reality looks for Leo the way it does (some "consciousness" higher than the other). Because he has never let go fully of all of these juicy subjective parts (aka what he calls higher consciousness, or "consciousness of" Ant/Human/Alien/Divine Being, n+1), leaving some filters/lenses and subjective distorations (aka states) still in place. Even in nondual states giving rise to beings more complex than humans (Alien)... And I totally understand why he totally doesn't understand what I am saying and why I am saying that.

My challenge for Leo would be: Sit down on the pillow, meditate until suffering and boredom stops, die on the pillow, then die some more, then die until the Leo-thing is done with, and then see what is really the case when one is able to shut down the arisings of the illusionary separate-self (aka Leo) in real-time - sobre. And if that is not doable, then why? Hint: Leo not quite dead  transcended and done with. Ah, the untranscended self-contraction. And once this bug is fully transcended in real time, then tell us when the bliss of the Absolute and the release of any form of self-contraction has started flowing, if the Alien is still so fascinating.

Maybe then he will understand why everyone who has achieved Enlightenment (or realized ones own True Nature) values the flow of bliss and the infinite release of Duality, or resting in ones True Being as the Summum Bonum. All possible questions are answered in this. All there ever could be (including Alien) is just mere appearance in ones boundless Being, and the bliss of that Being drowns all grasping. And the end-point of this multi-life-journey is not exploring the multiverse in a grasping way to ease the contraction of the untranscended separate-self. That is done until one tires of it, which can be speeded up with insight. Then, one can still celebrate Gods Infinity of realms. But then, in a non-grasping way, a celebration, because the self-contraction that suffers/grasps/contracts is dead/gone, a mere illusion that once appeared in ones True Being.

PS: UnbornTao wouldn't be UnbornTao if yours truly wouldn't get a snarky comment on his blasphemy, so... ^_^ and Namaste!

PS PS: Leo, having read Reductionism from you quite a lot quite lately.... How about replacing that with Essentialism, and coming home? See you there! And then, from "there", the exploration of the Infinity of Infinities is a celebration, being & feeling at home wherever possibly one seemingly goes.

You like talking in riddles, but thanks, I guess. :P

Edited by UnbornTao

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14 minutes ago, vibv said:

You guys are still trying to win an argument, which alone reduces your state of consciousness already.

I dont think you can reproduce the criticism in your own words.

If a gun was put to your head, how would you describe my position and what do you think my issue is?

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17 minutes ago, vibv said:

You guys are still trying to win an argument, which alone reduces your state of consciousness already.

I had a Misinformation Awakening. :P

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@UnbornTao, don't eat food, and you will understand the power and the directness of the chemicals.

Finally, are you enlightened? :)

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18 minutes ago, zurew said:

I dont think you can reproduce the criticism in your own words.

If a gun was put to your head, how would you describe my position and what do you think my issue is?

You're frustrated that I use words differently than you.

You can only use something fully if you first fully let it go.

Edited by vibv

JHWH·LILA·VIBV

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17 hours ago, emil1234 said:

fascinating. how long was your journey to full enlightenment?

To realize what Reality is and what my true being is, 15 years+ after starting with a Mahamudra and Dzogchen based practices similiar to Pointing out the Great Way. Before that, some years of Zen-like meditation, but that would not have led anywhere I guess (not efficient enough, at least not for me. Too much brute force effort required).

So nowadays I am enjoying the bliss that comes along the release of the ever-grasping self-contraction/ego-illusion and effortless in True boundless nondual impersonal Being, getting rid of the remaining "character-hangovers" (Chat-GPT: "The lingering emotional or mental effects you feel after being deeply immersed in a fictional character or story.")... Ask my wife xD.

And somtimes I wonder why some chase their own merely appearing and temporary (Alien-,x/y/z) tails in a grasping way (wanting x/y/z Awakenings or else suffering/contracting/grasping), which is exactly is the opposite of getting rid of the remaining lenses/filters by resting for really long periods of time in choiceless Awareness, which would make true Enlightenment possible. And propagate the tail-chasing as superior. Mayas illusions and cul-de-sacs, all the way of the path....

So,

Godspeed by the River

 

 

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38 minutes ago, vibv said:

@Water by the River Are you directly aware of what you’re saying or are you just repeating. 

Directly aware.

That is the beauty once THAT which is always the case has been realized. It is always right here and available. A God/Alien/Awakening you can loose is just mere temporary appearance. 

But THAT is always available once the filters/lenses of ignorance (aka arisings of center/self/self-concepts vs. "other"/appearing world "out there") have been fully seen through/transcended. Once these filters/lenses/arisings of ignorance/separation/duality have been removed, its impossible to unsee the true state of "things". Ralstons constant Satori/Kensho. .

"Something" which is "Nothing" and "everything" is always the case. Never can not be. Koan: What is it?

Chagdu Rinpoche, quoted by Ken Wilber: If it has a beginning in time, it is not it. 

 

Selling that with no beginning in time by the River

 

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10 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Directly aware.

Good. But you're not done yet. Me neither, by the way. In fact, absolutely no one is done yet.

Edited by vibv

JHWH·LILA·VIBV

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4 minutes ago, vibv said:

Good. But you're not done yet. Me neither, by the way. In fact, absolutely no one is done yet.

Nobody is done.

Actually, there isn't even somebody beyond the appearance of somebody. There is,was, ever will be only THAT. Cosplaying sometimes as somebody in its own Being. But that is another story.

Stabilizing Awakening via resting in True Being is just a stepping stone to whatever other adventures there may be appear, beyond having a human appear in ones Being.

And yet, it is the stepping stone of fundamental importance, from duality ("somebody" in here, "other" out there) chasing experiences/states/awakenings/whatever (another word is suffering in cycles) to truly starting to become able to rest in bliss even in the so called "ordinary" world (which in truth isn't ordinary at all, but holy manifestation of the Divine Ground).

And from thereon, become truly able to celebrate the journey, which in truth never really happened beyond appearing to be happening. Which takes the whole stress out of the game.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Nobody is done.

IT is a Process. There are stages, phases & twists around all corners. Watch out.

Quote

which in truth never really happened

Oh boy, does it HAPPEN.

Edited by vibv

JHWH·LILA·VIBV

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1 hour ago, vibv said:

You're frustrated that I use words differently than you.

No, not even close.

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3 minutes ago, zurew said:

No, not even close.

Enlighten me.


JHWH·LILA·VIBV

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Its not that you use words differently, its that you dont engage with their intended meaning (how the other person uses the term) and hence you dont engage with what they are saying - you are talking about a completely different thing and not responding to what they are saying.

Do you think it would make sense if I have a different meaning in mind for God realization like "God realization is when I shit in my toilet" and then tell Leo, that he is wrong about God realization being the highest awakening, because categorically its not even an awakening but a process where you shit in the toilet - do you think that would engage with what Leo is saying? 

It wouldnt engage and the issue isn't that I have a different definition for the term, the issue is that I project my own definition behind the term when Leo uses the term ,even though its super clear that he has a different definition in mind when he uses the term - so If I want to engage with what he is saying, the move isn't to project my definition behind the term, the move is to figure out what he means by the term.

 

But in any case - I already gave a long breakdown on this here:

6 hours ago, zurew said:

Let me try this one last time to demonstrate what one of my issue is.

Edited by zurew

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@zurew It is not my intention to argue with you, that’s why.

My intention is to write something that has the potential to hit someone right into the heart.

I may not always succeed, but everything else just isn’t worth my time.

I love to read everything that stems from direct experience. Everything else is just noise.

Edited by vibv

JHWH·LILA·VIBV

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6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No. It isn't.

What I am saying requires such high intelligence to understand that 99.9999% humans have never and will never understand it.

Intelligence is nothing personal. You can't fake it. You can't BS your way around it. You can't read it in any book.

Fully realizing God requires insane intelligence. Mindless meditation techniques are not enough. You can't note and label your way to Intelligence! You can't self-inquire your way to Intelligence!

The sheer intelligence of the highest things I understand is just astonishing.

This is not a debate. I understand things you do not. Nothing personal about it. You too could understand, if your mind was open.

Is this the spiritual way of saying, "You're all stupid except me"? xD

Open to what, specifically? Is this whole mental framework coming from a memory or a conclusion drawn from a state you experienced on a trip - or several? The point would be that you can't chemically alter your way to intelligence either, if I'm understanding your use of the term correctly, because it's not a function of time - in either case.

I'd say the only thing it requires is consciousness. And fortunately, it isn't anywhere else but here. It doesn't require a new experience or for something to change, since we're seemingly trying to talk about the absolute. If you mean something relative, then that's a completely different matter.

Edited by UnbornTao

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