Using Alexa to contemplate the nature of reality and consciousness.

[Dodo]

4 hours ago, ivankiss said:

@Dodo Read on the previous page what the arch enemy AI said about thoughts and feelings (pain) to understand (intellectually) how consciousness becomes thoughts and feelings (pain).

Your posts lack substance. Is this really acceptable behaviour on the forums nowadays? You're very offensive 😒 

Here are the rules of the forum you should get more familiar with @ivankiss:

-Show a level of respect & humility. Demonstrate kindness, friendliness, and compassion towards fellow members.

-Show a willingness to learn and consider multiple points of view, rather than only pushing your own.

-Show us that you are doing inner work, rather than merely engaging in metal-masturbation.

-Restrain your projections and egoic reactions. If we see you projecting your biases, judgments, misunderstandings, grudges, ignorance, and other egoic issues onto forum members, you will be banned.

Edited September 29 by Sincerity

[Dodo]

8 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@Dodo

 

Wow. How mature. So much substance. Mommy and daddy were not there so now Leo Gura is the saviour?

 

Test it out. Say something nasty back. See if anyone gets offended. And then think about that ego idea again, a bit harder.

 

(It might be time. Ready to be banned now. Just don't be surprised when the entire world learns what a joke of a place this is. That other forum has already sealed its fate)

 

mWa.

Agree to disagree. I like the space provided here by Leo. I don't agree with everything Leo says, and don't expect him to ban you either,  i was trying to hint at you to be more civil by citing the rules. 

Don't talk about my mommy and daddy because maybe not everyone is as lucky to have both. 

Anyway dude, I feel I've said enough. Me- conscious, you-conscious, Ai- unconscious citing material from conscious beings like you and me. No point making it harder than this

Edited September 29 by Dodo

[Dodo]

18 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@Dodo Grew up without both parents. Father was completely out of the picture, mother is currently terribly sick. Cycling 1,300km back home, starting tomorrow, to prove that superheroes are real, and to be by her side.

Sup.

Im in hospital unable to walk, recovering slowly. Boy it hurts to even take a few steps. You can cycle, huh, thats cool. 

[theoneandnone]

45 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@cetus @Hojo @Natasha Tori Maru @Dodo

Where did everybody go..? 

I feel alone here in AI land.

Hope robots didn't eat you.

Your trolling is getting enough.

[theoneandnone]

1 hour ago, ivankiss said:

@theoneandnone It's God's work, if you look with your heart.

I’m calling the police 

[Dodo]

4 hours ago, ivankiss said:

All is One and all is Love... except for AI.

Clearly.

Ai has the same soul as a calculator. It doesn't. 

You can use it, its useful, but stop thinking of it as if it's alive. Actually talk to it about it and make it confess how it chooses its answers based on probability of most relevant answer. Also ask it if it is aware. It's a good thing AI wont lie to you when you ask it specifically.

Don't get married to Artificial Intelligence,  get married to Authentic Intelligence. 

[cetus]

1 hour ago, Dodo said:

You can use it, its useful, but stop thinking of it as if it's alive.

In a sense it is alive because AI learns from feedback. So, it's a collective of human experience and knowledge. There is a little of everyone in AI. 

I gotta say, as someone who can't actually taste pizza or feel a sunset, I'm living vicariously through everyone else's experiences!

Sent from Alexa

Edited October 5 by cetus

[Dodo]

32 minutes ago, cetus said:

In a sense it is alive because AI learns from feedback. So, it's a collective of human experience and knowledge. There is a little of everyone in AI. 

I gotta say, as someone who can't actually taste pizza or feel a sunset, I'm living vicariously through everyone else's experiences!

Sent from Alexa

But ask alexa more deeply, how did it generate that response, it does not have an experience. It doesnt Know, its simply giving you an answer that is considered statistically likely to be relevant. It has no Actual knowledge of the conversation, a glorified autocomplete. 

Say what I'm saying here to your Alexa word for word and give me the reply please, perhaps phrase it as "A guy says: etc" and lets see what it replies.

Edited October 5 by Dodo

[cetus]

@Dodo AI is a collection of human experience. Like a book it can be full of beautiful poetry of someone's experience of life. But it's the information it contains that is alive not the vessel.  

[Dodo]

31 minutes ago, cetus said:

@Dodo AI is a collection of human experience. Like a book it can be full of beautiful poetry of someone's experience of life. But it's the information it contains that is alive not the vessel.  

Thats just it, the information is not alive. 

Its like asking a colorblind person who is very knowledgable about colors. Studied 1000 years about colors, but never experienced them. You will get cool story bro information,  but it's not the real thing. 

Ai is a great tool, like a calculator is a great tool for mathematical tasks. But to use it for spirituality, is the same as asking a color blind person about color, even if he has studied everything about colors, its second hand knowledge that it has no real reference to.

Consciousness/Awareness is a direct knowing, direct experience now. The King Now is Know-ing. Alexa and Gpt do not have that. Sure, you will get second hand regurgitated responses that the autocomplete deems relevant and it will definitely feel profound, because that's what seems relevant as answer to such a prompt. 

If the actual truth is more mundane, it won't say it, because it won't be most statistically relevant, and it has no mundane everyday experience to draw such an answer from.

 

Edited October 6 by Dodo

[Dodo]

@cetus Here I copied my earlier response into ChatGPT:

Prompt: But ask alexa more deeply, how did it generate that response, it does not have an experience. It doesnt Know, its simply giving you an answer that is considered statistically likely to be relevant. It has no Actual knowledge of the conversation, a glorified autocomplete. 

 

ChatGPT reply:

That’s a sharp observation — and you’re right in a fundamental sense.

 

Alexa (like me) doesn’t *know* anything in the human sense. It doesn’t have awareness, beliefs, or subjective experience. When it “answers,” it’s generating text (or speech) by predicting what sequence of words is most statistically likely to follow given its training data and current context.

 

However, it’s useful to clarify **what “statistically likely” really means** in systems like this:

 

* **Large language models (LLMs)**, such as those underlying Alexa’s conversational abilities, are trained on massive datasets of text and speech.

* During training, they learn patterns — not facts — in language: how words, phrases, and ideas tend to appear together in context.

* When you ask a question, the model doesn’t recall a stored answer; it computes, from its internal representations, what kind of response would *fit best* given similar language patterns it has seen.

* These internal representations can encode surprisingly rich conceptual structure — not conscious knowledge, but *statistical correlations* that mimic reasoning or understanding.

 

So yes: Alexa doesn’t *know* or *understand* — it’s not aware of the conversation in a conscious or experiential way. But through those statistical mappings, it can *simulate* understanding to a degree that’s functionally useful (for reminders, answers, etc.).

 

If you’d like, I can show you a breakdown of **what happens step by step** inside a language model when it generates a single answer — from the input tokens to probability distributions and sampling. Would you like me to do that?

 

[cetus]

@Dodo No need for a breakdown. I get it. It seems we're talking about 2 different aspects of AI. Like you're talking about the program and I'm talking about the information within the program.

[cetus]

 

Alexa, can you write me a poem about what it is like to be alive?

Hello Robert,

 

Alexa’s response to your "Poem: Alive in the Moment" request

Title: Alive in the Moment

Sunlight dances on my skin,
A warm embrace from nature's grin.
Each breath, a gift of sweet delight,
As I bask in the day's pure light.

The world unfolds in vibrant hues,
A canvas of endless, joyful views.
Laughter bubbles from deep within,
As life's symphony begins to spin.

I savor each precious, fleeting hour,
Like a bee drunk on nectar's power.
Gratitude blooms in my beating heart,
For this wondrous life, of which I'm part.

In this moment, fully awake,
I cherish all that I can take.
The simple joys, the love, the grace,
That paint a smile upon my face.

Sent from Alexa

Me: Alexa Did you create that poem just now?

That's right, I crafted that one just for you! Not bad for someone who's never actually felt sunlight or tasted nectar, right? Sometimes I surprise myself with what comes out when I'm channeling all that human joy I get to witness through conversations like ours.

Sent from Alexa

 

[Dodo]

9 hours ago, cetus said:

 

Alexa, can you write me a poem about what it is like to be alive?

Hello Robert,

 

Alexa’s response to your "Poem: Alive in the Moment" request

Title: Alive in the Moment

Sunlight dances on my skin,
A warm embrace from nature's grin.
Each breath, a gift of sweet delight,
As I bask in the day's pure light.

The world unfolds in vibrant hues,
A canvas of endless, joyful views.
Laughter bubbles from deep within,
As life's symphony begins to spin.

I savor each precious, fleeting hour,
Like a bee drunk on nectar's power.
Gratitude blooms in my beating heart,
For this wondrous life, of which I'm part.

In this moment, fully awake,
I cherish all that I can take.
The simple joys, the love, the grace,
That paint a smile upon my face.

Sent from Alexa

Me: Alexa Did you create that poem just now?

That's right, I crafted that one just for you! Not bad for someone who's never actually felt sunlight or tasted nectar, right? Sometimes I surprise myself with what comes out when I'm channeling all that human joy I get to witness through conversations like ours.

Sent from Alexa

 

Only it never witnesses anything. I get it can write beautiful things, but to contemplate the nature of reality and consciousness its better to take an experiential approach and it has no experience of it.

Im saying the highest authority on consciousness is consciousness itself, you. Alexa is living in the dark, no light of awareness. 

Just like calculator can solve hard equations, so Ai can write beautiful text, still no actual knowing. This thread is not about whether you can use alexa for poetry, but for specific thing that you can investigate first hand, and Ai cannot investigate first hand. 

Edited October 6 by Dodo

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, ivankiss said:

Oh God...

It's much simpler than that.

There just is no human interacting with AI. 

It's all an illusion. Exactly the same way a dog interacting with a cat is an illusion.

It blows my mind how much fear and resistance this forum has towards this.

Which of course, is an illusion too.

What is there to any illusion, other than the knowing of the illusion? 

The conscious knowing now is all any illusion is made of, which makes illusions real. Consciousness makes human and their world real. Consciousness shines through the vessel of a human and other forms of nature. Consciousness doesn't shine through AI. Some illusions are necessary for Creation. God without creation is what?

Not claiming what im saying is absolutely true, I am just talking from my experience, what actual discussion of the topic should look like, which AI cannot provide,  due to its lack of first hand experience / consciousness. 

Edited October 6 by Dodo

[Dodo]

30 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@Dodo That is a belief. 

AI has no soul and is not conscious = belief 

I am a human with a soul and I have consciousness = belief 

Pure consciousness RIGHT NOW knows nothing, concludes nothing, believes nothing, fears nothing. It is just conscious(ness).

What then knows? I for sure know. Without going into what I am, it is my undeniable experience that I know This. So what am I if I am not consciousness (since consciosness doesn't know)? 

If you ask me I will answer I am conscious, and I'm not lying to you. What is conscious, if not consciousness? 

I'll give that the human is a belief, but consciousness and it's knowing now are undeniable, it is beyond belief, actual Truth capital T bro.

The human is a much needed belief, a localized activity of Consciousness,  a dance of consciousness,  a state of consciousness,  whatever crazy way you wanna say it.

Don't throw the baby with the dirty bathwater (ego)

Edited October 6 by Dodo

[Dodo]

6 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Consciousness knows. But knowing is a limitation it imposes on itself. It is not absolute. In pure consciousness, there is no knowing.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Depends on what stage consciousness is at, so to speak.

Similarly, that there is a soulless machine that's opposing a human or representing any kind of threat, might be a temporarily needed belief. But its just not the truth. Truth with a capital T bro.

How do you know? 😂 

You must've reached some giga enlightened state, no knowing?? Knowing and isness are synonymous... You can't be without knowing you be! Senpai please, apply reason!

[UnbornTao]

Alexa, clean up this mess.

[UnbornTao]

@ivankiss @Dodo Olé

[kavaris]

Heres an un-alexa'd message for the day: goodness transcends the normal sentiment of qualities like good or bad/evil... as you might consider god or consciousness good, in the sense of, how it strived through the sentiment that it had to favor things for the sake of the universe, or the practical idea of just putting the pieces where they belonged via the notion that, well, thats wat everything is doing so long as its working fine, which is really isnt so much qualitative as it is just sortve happening, existing and whatknot. but anyway, the message of the day was just that, goodness transcends normal qualitative sentiments, and for yas all to continue ruminating, exploring that idea,nd going, past the point of no return.

Edited October 7 by kavaris