What is Happiness?

[UnbornTao]

10 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Yes it can be hard to completely distinguish the mind. And you say what remains is open presence. I’d say before the self has been stripped, there’s also the sense of the presence of self- may or may not be the mind 

You can also just go for an experience of real being now. Why wait until one's self has been stripped? 

I suspect in practice those aren't mutually exclusive: to perceive Being, the self must be seen for what it is.

10 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Well I guess some people correlate caring deeply about something to being stressed about it. They feel their stress is part of their care and helps them stay focused on it and thus control it better

Bless them.

10 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Yea I think ultimately enlightenment doesn’t discriminate, anyone could, but I also think the chance of it happening spontaneously is very low so if it’s the goal I think it’s wise to pursue it but maybe down the road it leads you to realize you never had to pursue it, but such realization might just come after the fact of pursuing it 

Sure. We can pursue it, and at the same time, direct consciousness is always sudden. There really isn't a path, but often, prior to this kind of realization, there's a process of dwelling on a question, investigating, discussing, and perhaps studying pertinent material - which might help put you in a good state, even though awakening isn't a result or effect. Like waking up from a dream. 

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

You can also just go for an experience of real being now. Why wait until one's self has been stripped? 

I suspect in practice those aren't mutually exclusive: to perceive Being, the self must be seen for what it is.

What would it even mean to “go for an experience of real being now”. Like staring at a wall until you have the raw experience of the wall? (If you’re not focusing on the self)

Maybe “the self is seen for what it is” is synonymous with it being “stripped” of its realness, so yea as you say those might not be mutually exclusive . 

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Bless them.

Sure. We can pursue it, and at the same time, direct consciousness is always sudden. There really isn't a path, but often, prior to this kind of realization, there's a process of dwelling on a question, investigating, discussing, and perhaps studying pertinent material - which might help put you in a good state, even though awakening isn't a result or effect. Like waking up from a dream. 

I think similarly . But for now it still seems some things can be done to increase the chance, because it’s not usual that average people who don’t pursue awakening just suddenly have a glimpse, hmmm

Edited Wednesday at 08:25 AM by Sugarcoat

[Yimpa]

22 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Like staring at a wall until you have the raw experience of the wall? (If you’re not focusing on the self)

I had this raw experience earlier today! I was not looking at a wall, I became aware that the wall is Consciousness. I no longer took my "self" as more important than the wall I was staring at, or the banana that was on the countertop. Love so selfless that you are no longer in control.... how awesome!

[Sugarcoat]

19 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

I had this raw experience earlier today! I was not looking at a wall, I became aware that the wall is Consciousness. I no longer took my "self" as more important than the wall I was staring at, or the banana that was on the countertop. Love so selfless that you are no longer in control.... how awesome!

It seems we have capacity to see things how they are, but then the normal mind reappears again and we’re back to normal

Edited Wednesday at 09:03 AM by Sugarcoat

[Yimpa]

7 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

It seems we have capacity to see things how they are, but then the normal mind reappears again and we’re back to normal

Yep. I used to assume that being in the Highest state permanently was the solution to all my problems.

I was wrong, and now I appreciate and am thankful for all states 

[UnbornTao]

On 9/17/2025 at 9:16 AM, Sugarcoat said:

What would it even mean to “go for an experience of real being now”. Like staring at a wall until you have the raw experience of the wall? (If you’re not focusing on the self)

Maybe “the self is seen for what it is” is synonymous with it being “stripped” of its realness, so yea as you say those might not be mutually exclusive . 

I think similarly . But for now it still seems some things can be done to increase the chance, because it’s not usual that average people who don’t pursue awakening just suddenly have a glimpse, hmmm

You are, so attempt to apprehend the very one that you are now. This is, fundamentally, the only instruction - in this context.

Other than that, we really don't know - and can't know - as any attempt by the mind to comprehend this matter will inevitably lead to misunderstanding. But, perhaps paradoxically, we can grasp the truth. In your example, it would be an encounter with what is there for itself that's being perceived or distinguished as the distinction of wall. Perhaps there is no wall at all… We say that something is there, though - or so it seems. At this point, you'd begin dwelling on what an object is.

On 9/17/2025 at 9:16 AM, Sugarcoat said:

I think similarly . But for now it still seems some things can be done to increase the chance, because it’s not usual that average people who don’t pursue awakening just suddenly have a glimpse, hmmm

We like to "wait around," thinking it requires a long time but it doesn't have to. Being open and genuinely wanting to know are the main ingredients. Intend to get it now, and intend again, until you do.

In any case, being happy is accesible now, even if our true nature is unknown.

Edited 23 hours ago by UnbornTao

[cetus]

Look how happy this guy is. Don't you wish this was you?

 

[UnbornTao]

On 9/17/2025 at 11:26 PM, cetus said:

Look how happy this guy is. Don't you wish this was you?

 

Love it. Is that a yogurt factory? 

Edited 22 hours ago by UnbornTao

[inFlow]

On 9/11/2025 at 4:46 PM, SQAAD said:

Gratification is when you get what you want.

No. This implies an Ego that gets what it wants.

Gratification is just being grateful for being alive, it's the ultimate gift a person can get. Some poeple might look at others that have money, but you are rich way beyond that and dont accept/understand this GIFT of LIFE. Living still on the level of the mind is a pain, believe me I distinguish these states really well and once I get down to the lvl of the mind everything gets worse, because you are falling back to a deceptive reality which the mind created. Whiping that away is what actually gives you happiness. Freedome from your own mind gives you happiness. Rise higher and live sky rather that be stuck in the smog.

[Sugarcoat]

On 2025-09-17 at 8:09 PM, UnbornTao said:

You are, so attempt to apprehend the very one that you are now. This is, fundamentally, the only instruction - in this context.

Other than that, we really don't know - and can't know - as any attempt by the mind to comprehend this matter will inevitably lead to misunderstanding. But, perhaps paradoxically, we can grasp the truth. In your example, it would be an encounter with what is there for itself that's being perceived or distinguished as the distinction of wall. Perhaps there is no wall at all… We say that something is there, though - or so it seems. At this point, you'd begin dwelling on what an object is.

 

We could be aware of how we are disconnected from our true nature. So it would be helpful to identify what it is that’s veiling and try to undo that. So the attempt to grasp our nature has a certain “direction” to it which is to try to step away from the mind, as we usually use our mind to grasp things and it doesn’t lead anywhere except keep us inside our current state. We could use our mind to contemplate but we will probably find as you say that it won’t really lead to anything actually true

On 2025-09-17 at 8:09 PM, UnbornTao said:

 

We like to "wait around," thinking it requires a long time but it doesn't have to. Being open and genuinely wanting to know are the main ingredients. Intend to get it now, and intend again, until you do.

In any case, being happy is accesible now, even if our true nature is unknown.

I’d agree. Happiness requires undoing of suffering, but not much extra aside from that. 

Edited 22 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Brittany]

On 9/11/2025 at 7:48 PM, Princess Arabia said:

No state is caused by you. Get sad now. Get frustrated or angry now. Something on the outside is required. This is why telling someone how to be happy all the time is futile. Peace is a state of harmony that is caused by the absence of it's opposite so even that is caused by the absence of something else. 

No, you can master your emotions.

Actors and actresses can literally cry and get angry on impact. 

You can also learn how to feel any "blissful" feeling you want, even the state of deep blissful Romantic Love, through Law of Assumption or Neville Goddard techniques. There are many spiritual practices that can activate good feelings and state of feeling HIGH.

None of this is enlightenment though. It's just emotional mastery, which is a skill of it's own.

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Brittany said:

Actors and actresses can literally cry and get angry on impact. 

Yes, this made me re-think my statements even though certain thoughts are required for them to do that. Thoughts are still technically not ours in the absolute sense so if we consider thoughts to be from the outside, then it's still some outside force that's required. Even if we say thoughts come from the inside then some outside image is needed. E.g to cry on demand could result from thinking about my dead mother or a heartbroken experience I had even if it's fabricated. Wirth contemplating a bit further when considering the nature of how they're able to cry on demand and if something on the outside is still required. 

 

2 hours ago, Brittany said:

There are many spiritual practices that can activate good feelings and state of feeling HIGH.

. This doesn't count and is in alignment with my statements as spiritual practices are rituals from the outside and is a cause. Remember I did say something from the outside is needed and this is using spiritual practices to achieve a desired state. 

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

We could be aware of how we are disconnected from our true nature. So it would be helpful to identify what it is that’s veiling and try to undo that. So the attempt to grasp our nature has a certain “direction” to it which is to try to step away from the mind, as we usually use our mind to grasp things and it doesn’t lead anywhere except keep us inside our current state. We could use our mind to contemplate but we will probably find as you say that it won’t really lead to anything actually true

I’d agree. Happiness requires undoing of suffering, but not much extra aside from that. 

Definitely. That's an important recognition. Then again, why concern ourselves too much with what stands in the way when the direct route is available? Rather than going off on tangents, go straight for the target. Your method may be more gradual and better suited for transforming the self, but both approaches are useful as long as truth is the goal.

I'm not sure about the role of the mind in contemplation, though. It is far from an intellectual exercise, and yet the mind might have some influence - like ballparking your efforts or getting at the door, so to speak. The leap at that point is consciousness' job.

Where is your last sentence coming from?

There's no need to undo something you aren't doing in the first place. But that's beside the point: why not be happy, period? We could give it a serious try. And we'll go through this and that experience and state and feel different emotions.

Edited 19 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Definitely. That's an important recognition. Then again, why concern ourselves too much with what stands in the way when the direct route is available? Rather than going off on tangents, go straight for the target. Your method may be more gradual and better suited for transforming the self, but both approaches are useful as long as truth is the goal.

 

If we go directly for truth it entails a certain action, unless you say it’s “doing nothing”. But anything else would mean something, like for example “focus your attention on something actual in your experience”. And anytime we do something we are not doing something else, so when you focus on experience you may disengage from the mind which you were precisely engaged in. So I’m just saying that to say “go for truth directly” usually implies something .

 

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

I'm not sure about the role of the mind in contemplation, though. It is far from an intellectual exercise, and yet the mind might have some influence - like ballparking your efforts or getting at the door, so to speak. The leap at that point is consciousness' job.

 

I thought contemplation was when you use your mind to think deeply about something. It could correlate to “direct insight”, consciousness etc, but those are still beyond the mind but the mind might be stepping stone to them

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Where is your last sentence coming from?

There's no need to undo something you aren't doing in the first place. But that's beside the point: why not be happy, period? We could give it a serious try. And we'll go through this and that experience and state and feel different emotions.

I remember from previous threads you’ve said we are the ones doing/creating our suffering. Do you mean here that there’s no real self in non dual sense so that’s why you say “you aren’t doing it”?

Edited 18 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[theoneandnone]

To me happiness is whatever makes you feel good it’s whatever keeps you from killing yourself essentially.

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, theoneandnone said:

To me happiness is whatever makes you feel good it’s whatever keeps you from killing yourself essentially.

Chocolate cake?

[Yimpa]

Just like you, I was small
Not that long ago at all
I wish you all the happiness
That God gives freely if you ask