Anti human spirituality

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, same than imaginary world..

@Breakingthewall then what do we have. 

 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Breakingthewall then what do we have. 

 

The conceptual framework is inevitable in the human mind, so the idea is to create an open conceptual framework. Open means that the conceptual framework is a scheme for human mind functioning, but it does not limit or define reality. Rather, it can become transparent to allow the living flow to manifest itself in its breadth and indefiniteness.

An open conceptual framework is not synonymous with openness, since there are primordial energy barriers, but a closed conceptual framework is synonymous with closure.

The idea: reality is imaginary; it is a closed framework, just as reality is material. An open framework would be: reality is limitless.

Edited Wednesday at 03:47 PM by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

The conceptual framework is inevitable in the human m

First mistake is that there is a human mind. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

First mistake is that there is a human mind. 

You have emotions and you think right? That's the human psychological sistem. 

It's an energetic system that operates without pause. If you meditate, you'll notice how it closes, how your muscles are slightly tense, how it affects your breathing, your way of being. It's something integral: emotion/thought/energy/projection. The idea is to recognize it and allow it to open, allowing it to operate in free flow mode, without limits.

Edited Wednesday at 07:07 PM by Breakingthewall

[Natasha Tori Maru]

43 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You have emotions and you think right? That's the human psychological sistem. 

It's an energetic system that operates without pause. If you meditate, you'll notice how it closes, how your muscles are slightly tense, how it affects your breathing, your way of being. It's something integral: emotion/thought/energy/projection. The idea is to recognize it and allow it to open, allowing it to operate in free flow mode, without limits.

Woah this is very odd - do you think humans are just their emotions and thoughts? Is this a core defining feature to you?

[Carl-Richard]

15 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

"You" work "yourself" to a "state" where "you" let the ego not identify with "you". So there are two you, the ego and the real you? 

It seems you're talking about your self-image, something like: oh, my children are being raped, does that mean I'm a bad father? Gosh, should I do something to maintain my image as a good father?

Yeah, well, that's psychotic narcissism, it's fine for anyone to get over it, but I'm not talking about that, but about the real psychological structure, the real neural pathways that make you pick up an axe and start a fight to the death when you see your children being raped.

If, for example, you were a tuna, and you saw your children being raped, you wouldn't care at all, since you wouldn't have those neural pathways made by millions of years of evolution, you would have different ones, which would make you swim or maybe eat your children.

You do the same language game with "consciousness": you say consciousness cannot be absolute because it requires perception of a thing, and perception of a thing is relative. But you're just getting hung up on the word and missing the concept that is being communicated. I can give you 12 definitions of consciousness right now. If I did, would you then answer each one with "no, consciousness is x"? At that point, maybe not.

Edited Wednesday at 10:06 PM by Carl-Richard

[Natasha Tori Maru]

9 hours ago, Human Mint said:

Ok. Cos' I held them as different too, but now I start to think that No-Self realization is the same as realizing the true, infinte Self, which is God. But I think when people talk about the 'self' being illusion they commonly refer to a different thing

Maybe like stepping stones?

Hit no self - then you take another step and BOOM - realization you are truth, pure consciousness, God, infinity - all that is inside you is actually outside... The two realizations are holding each others hands 

It points to God realization - but there is still work to do between the 'self illusion' step and 'God realization' to get there.

Edited Wednesday at 11:59 PM by Natasha Tori Maru

[Breakingthewall]

7 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Woah this is very odd - do you think humans are just their emotions and thoughts? Is this a core defining feature to you?

It could be said that humans are reality structured in a certain way, and that structure is in part the system of the psyche that includes energetic impulses that we call emotions and complex structures that we call thought.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Breakingthewall So you think it is a permanent part of being a human?

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

You do the same language game with "consciousness": you say consciousness cannot be absolute because it requires perception of a thing, and perception of a thing is relative. But you're just getting hung up on the word and missing the concept that is being communicated. I can give you 12 definitions of consciousness right now. If I did, would you then answer each one with "no, consciousness is x"? At that point, maybe not.

The word consciousness implies both perceiver and object. Consciousness is just reality in a dual configuration. "Consciousness" from an absolute perspective means nothing. Reality is not consciousness, but consciousness is reality

[Breakingthewall]

21 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Breakingthewall So you think it is a permanent part of being a human?

You can reach a state of no thoughts or emotions in meditation, but the moment you do something, you do it driven by emotion and thought, even something as simple as going to the bathroom or walking.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Breakingthewall 

Impulses may arise in the moment to be followed. Then there is a movement, a change in vision. Tactile sensation of the doorknob. 

The feeling of legs moving, feet meeting the pavement. 

Various lifeforms can do this without self awareness.

 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

The word consciousness implies both perceiver and object. Consciousness is just reality in a dual configuration. "Consciousness" from an absolute perspective means nothing. Reality is not consciousness, but consciousness is reality

Look at it go. Exactly what I said you said.

Me: "I think bread is edible. Do you think bread is edible?"

Breakingthewall: "I think bread can be digested and have its nutrients extracted by the stomach."

Me: "Yeah ok, but do you see how you said the same thing?"

Breakingthewall: "You just don't seem to understand me".

Me: "What if I told you I could define the word 'peanut butter" in 10 different ways? Would you see it then?"

Breakingthewall: "Peanut butter is a mixture of peanuts, oils and other additives".

 

The reason why you seem to disagree so much, why you keep responding with blocks of text to everything, why everything seems to loop and no conversation gets resolved and it all continues forever, is because you're not conceding your frame (ironically clinging to your frame, or just not considering the other frame), and sometimes the frame is the only issue.

Edited Thursday at 05:15 AM by Carl-Richard

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Various lifeforms can do this without self awareness.

Self-awareness is a human function that creates an image of the individual in their environment to optimize and increase their potential in all aspects. It creates projections into the past and future and the individual's position in the social group, allowing for complex long-term planning. Who would want to get rid of something so useful? 

If your self-awareness tortures you, it's a sign that you need to change the frequency of your system in some way. Which way? In a way that doesn't torture you. But eliminate self awareness is not a possibility 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Self-awareness is a human function that creates an image of the individual in their environment to optimize and increase their potential in all aspects. It creates projections into the past and future and the individual's position in the social group, allowing for complex long-term planning. Who would want to get rid of something so useful? 

If your self-awareness tortures you, it's a sign that you need to change the frequency of your system in some way. Which way? In a way that doesn't torture you. But eliminate self awareness is not a possibility 

Red = the illusion

Blue = have you considered this is NOT useful? Contemplated what life would be, as a human, without it? What do you think that might be?

[Natasha Tori Maru]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If your self-awareness tortures you, it's a sign that you need to change the frequency of your system in some way. Which way? In a way that doesn't torture you. But eliminate self awareness is not a possibility 

This is no-self. You still have awareness

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Red = the illusion

It's not an illusion, It's a real calculation of possibilities that runs automatically; it's just as illusory as hunger. Hunger is an energetic vibration that makes you eat; self-image is an energetic vibration that keeps you from defecating at the table with your in-laws.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Blue = have you considered this is NOT useful? Contemplated what life would be, as a human, without it? What do you think that might be?

Like the jungle, killing someone if disturbs you, etc?

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

This is no-self. You still have awareness

If you have awareness of yourself it's self awareness. The problem is when self awareness is conditioned by the opinion of others and that

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's not an illusion, It's a real calculation of possibilities that runs automatically; it's just as illusory as hunger. Hunger is an energetic vibration that makes you eat; self-image is an energetic vibration that keeps you from defecating at the table with your in-laws.

You just said it was an illusion above - you used the words 'image' 'projections'. Your words.

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Like the jungle, killing someone if disturbs you, etc?

Read the question again - this isn't an answer. Additionally - this is a question. Answer with a statement.

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you have awareness of yourself it's self awareness. The problem is when self awareness is conditioned by the opinion of others and that

What is awareness without self?

You are a smart cookie - you understand these questions. And if you don't, don't rush to answer. Have a think on it.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

The reason why you seem to disagree so much, why you keep responding with blocks of text to everything, why everything seems to loop and no conversation gets resolved and it all continues forever, is because you're not conceding your frame (ironically clinging to your frame, or just not considering the other frame), and sometimes the frame is the only issue.

This.

The only thing I am getting from the conversation is that there is a total refused to drop frame/consider ANY alternative. Not even as a simple thought experiment.

Ironically, this is the opposite of the 'openness' principal reiterated.

I am hanging on because the questions keep coming after I feel its done

Edited to add: I think the problem is 'no-self' is being looked at through the lens of the ego and identity. And because this frame is being clung to, it sounds like severance from being human. Erasing being human. But it is the idea that the permanent 'me' is false. Human experience is still had, felt with more genuine compassion and a heightened feeling of interconnectivity. Humanity is bigger than just the 'you'.

Edited Thursday at 10:25 AM by Natasha Tori Maru