Anti human spirituality

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

If nothing is being, then why you call it nothing? Nothing is absence of anything, then if it's being, there is not that total absence, it's potential of being. It's the same if it's not material or anything, it's a possibility, then the idea "nothing" doesn't fit imo

Appearing as, it's not really being anything but that's the paradox. Nothing is actually happening. That doesn't sit well, now does it. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

Appearing as, it's not really being anything but that's the paradox. Nothing is actually happening. That doesn't sit well, now does it. 

How did you arrive to that conclusion if you can see that reality is constant becoming? You could say that this becoming don't arrive to anything, but you can't deny the becoming, the constant flow. What is the mental process or the realization that makes you see that this becoming is not happening? "Happening" means precisely becoming, existence, change. There is change, you could say that it's imaginary but it's change anyway, it's the same if you call it imaginary, dream, it is. 

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

How did you arrive to that conclusion if you can see that reality is constant becoming? You could say that this becoming don't arrive to anything, but you can't deny the becoming, the constant flow. What is the mental process or the realization that makes you see that this becoming is not happening? "Happening" means precisely becoming, existence, change. There is change, you could say that it's imaginary but it's change anyway, it's the same if you call it imaginary, dream, it is. 

It is everything. It is the space in which it appears to be a becoming. It's not actually happening as it would take it and an outside something to make something happen. Something (even though it's not a thing) needs a subject and an object to 'happen' it is both the subject and the object so the same thing cannot be happening or becoming the same thing as it is everything. It is only apparent, which means appearing to happen, which means not really happening as in high heels makes a woman appear taller but she hasn't grown an inch, she didn't actually become taller, it never really happened. Nothing is being the woman, the high heels and the appearance of her looking taller, but since it is nothing, nothing is happening but it appears as something happening. 😏😏😏😏

 

 

[SOUL]

@Breakingthewall There's quite a bit of escapism masquerading as truth seeking 'awakened' spirituality, it's not much different than from most religious ideologies and mystical musings. People trying to make sense of life and the human condition with all of its challenges and hardships to find some respite from it all.

Many of the things I say may on the surface seem similar to the many 'spiritual' things others talk about but I'm not sure the perspectives are all that similar. I transcend the conditional to abide in well being which is expressed in conscious experience so I can celebrate life through all its twists and turns. Labeling things as 'true or false' and 'real or illusion' has little value for this.

It doesn't matter to me if my words or conceptualizations align with others, I just look at the fruit of it. If whatever someone says or believes about it brings well being in their conscious experience, then who am I to say it's 'wrong' or 'bad'. The words or concepts aren't the fruit, what it produces in their inner life and how it expresses is the fruit.

[Schizophonia]

On 04/08/2025 at 1:55 PM, Breakingthewall said:

Sure, because i have those ideas in my unconscious, I've read Spirituality like everyone else here, and when I did, I thought: This is the truth! Then it penetrates your mental structure. Since I want total freedom and openness, I see ideas that close people off as enemies, and perhaps that's why I give them such neurotic importance.

Not so, Im in the subway now full of people going to an appointment, I'm all time in the street, but sometimes I stop a while to write. But in my mind The gears are turning all the time, seeking the cleanest structure, trying to align, it's inevitable. Everyone has their own hobbies. I haven't seen a movie, a TV series, or a novel in years. I'm interested in reality, so I can't avoid a certain vehemence at times, but I'll try to avoid talking against Ralston or any master 

Do you see the connection between you seeing and being annoyed by "anti-human spirituals", and the fact that you have nothing to tell me except that you went out into the street/subway and that you have no hobbies.

Edited yesterday at 04:40 PM by Schizophonia

[Breakingthewall]

17 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Do you see the connection between you seeing and being annoyed by "anti-human spirituals", and the fact that you have nothing to tell me except that you went out into the street/subway and that you have no hobbies.

I answered you being polite even your message was nonsense. I shouldn't answer, you are not in the minimum level required . 

Edited 11 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

On 5/8/2025 at 1:42 AM, Princess Arabia said:

It is everything. It is the space in which it appears to be a becoming. It's not actually happening as it would take it and an outside something to make something happen. Something (even though it's not a thing) needs a subject and an object to 'happen' it is both the subject and the object so the same thing cannot be happening or becoming the same thing as it is everything. It is only apparent, which means appearing to happen, which means not really happening as in high heels makes a woman appear taller but she hasn't grown an inch, she didn't actually become taller, it never really happened. Nothing is being the woman, the high heels and the appearance of her looking taller, but since it is nothing, nothing is happening but it appears as something happening. 😏😏😏😏

 

 

I think that if there is apparent change there is change. Where is the difference between real or apparent? 

[Breakingthewall]

19 hours ago, SOUL said:

doesn't matter to me if my words or conceptualizations align with others, I just look at the fruit of it. If whatever someone says or believes about it brings well being in their conscious experience, then who am I to say it's 'wrong' or 'bad'. The words or concepts aren't the fruit, what it produces in their inner life and how it expresses is the fruit.

Well, it depends on what we mean by spirituality. It's supposedly the search for absolute truth, or rather, the search for a way to unlock the absolute truth within us. So there's an incorrect spirituality, it's one that doesn't aim for that end.

If you define spirituality as the searching of well being, then it's different 

Edited 11 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Schizophonia]

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I answered you being polite even your message was nonsense. I shouldn't answer, you are not in the minimum level required . 

This was stupid, can you react like an adult

If you don't understand what I'm saying, or if you think I'm being mean, you can say so.

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

This was stupid, can you react like an adult

If you don't understand what I'm saying, or if you think I'm being mean, you can say so.

Sure man, sure. Don't get angry. I don't understood, honestly. Im trying to talk about spirituality, about how some spirituality is a negation of human nature, when human nature is just an expression of reality. If you don't agree you can state your points. If you get personal, then it's normal than the others answer you personal, because it's annoying 

Edited 11 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Princess Arabia]

29 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think that if there is apparent change there is change. Where is the difference between real or apparent? 

Nothing's real; like literally. No pun intended.

Edited 11 hours ago by Princess Arabia

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Nothing's real.

"Real" is just an idea. What means real? Should mean anything to know what is unreal, right? Because if nothing is real, real means nothing. Then, unreal neither 

Edited 11 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

"Real" is just an idea. What means real? Should mean anything to know what is unreal right? Because if nothing is real, real means nothing. Then, unreal also. 

NOTHING IS WHAT'S REAL. It's Absolute. Infinite.

Edited 11 hours ago by Princess Arabia

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well, it depends on what we mean by spirituality. It's supposedly the search for absolute truth, or rather, the search for a way to unlock the absolute truth within us. So there's an incorrect spirituality, it's one that doesn't aim for that end.

If you define spirituality as the searching of well being, then it's different 

So it's 'incorrect spirituality' if it's not what you do? Does this mean you think my 'spirituality' is 'incorrect' because I'm not looking to unlock 'absolute truth' like you are?

There's no search for well being, it's just being it. Searching for something as if it's what one lacks contributes to the discontent people are experiencing.

 

Edited 9 hours ago by SOUL

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Sure man, sure. Don't get angry. I don't understood, honestly. Im trying to talk about spirituality, about how some spirituality is a negation of human nature, when human nature is just an expression of reality. If you don't agree you can state your points.

If you get personal, then it's normal than the others answer you personal, because it's annoying 

I'm not trying to say what you're saying is true or false.

What I meant is that there are endless things to do. You could eat ice cream, go jet skiing, watch videos of Remi Jones, aka my favorite porn actress ; you could do anything, but your attention has been directed precisely to "spirituality is often anti-human."

My thesis is that if your attention has been directed there, it's because you're in a mirror, because you recognize your karma.
Ditto, for the reason that prompts me to respond to you: I'm in a mirror too, otherwise I wouldn't care, just as I don't care about perhaps 99% of the topics here. We could link this to non-dual teaching, but for the moment it's just psychoanalysis.

Then, for the sake of investigation, I pointed out that perhaps your lifestyle is rather poor because you haven't given any evidence to the contrary (in any case, it's easy to lie/smooth things over and cover your tracks with a little effort to protect your ego), but without even trying to contradict me, you reacted neurotically (bashing, trying to get down in a perverse way; I know you know what I mean).

I'm not being personal; I don't think I do to others what I don't tolerate being done to me.

I don't think I'm mean or very rarely, I'm just very open to the unconscious which can trigger, but again it's not meanness and there is no double standard between the way I treat others and myself.

Feel free to point out my characters when you see them; in fact, I'm just waiting for that because most people are quite cowardly in this context and don't want to risk hurting my feelings by saying, "Oh, but Valentin, you're actually just saying that because 'blah blah blah'."

Right now, I'm having a problem with people. I sometimes try to pretend to be a very serious and tough character, powerful in my control. (neurosis, why do you think i often talk about it)
When in fact, it's to hide the fact that I'm angry about not having a girlfriend while they talk about their affairs, that I act (in denial, obviously) like a simp here and there, that I want to receive without giving to others, etc.

There's plenty to be funny about with me. 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Schizophonia

[Wilhelm44]

On 8/2/2025 at 6:35 PM, Breakingthewall said:

 

 

Most of the spirituality It is based on the denial of human nature.  The mind is seen as a prison, desire as suffering, and the ego as the great enemy. This view, even when disguised as non-duality, is rooted in a radical dualism: the real versus the illusory, the pure versus the corrupt, the divine versus the human.

The result is a deeply unnatural spirituality. The human being is asked to renounce himself, to nullify himself, to stop being what he is . to cut off all vital direction, every impulse, every expression. At its core, this view conveys the idea that reality has made a mistake , the human being, and that this mistake must be corrected through effort, discipline, and denial. The basis of spirituality usually is the elimination of the ego. Seems that being human is wrong, then we should point to be a plant, that "just be". This is achieved erasing the "falsehood", that is the ego mind. Have the birds ego? Aren't they perfect? Then, why aren't you a bird. Then, we find people trying to be a egoless bird with the giant effort of their ego to stop being humans. They will say: I'm enlightened, now there is not suffering. Well, no, enlightenment happened, and there is nobody here, because who was here was an illusion. It's difficult to be more controller.

this vision is false. There is no mistake in human nature, as it's an expression of the reality. The human structure is not to be eliminated, but understood and opened. What the human being needs is not to erase himself, but to open fully to what is. To understand that his form, with all its nuances, is part of the infinite flow. The ego does not need to be killed , it needs to be seen. The mind does not need to be crushed, it need to be open. Desire doesn't need to be erased, must to be aligned.

True openness is not about becoming a plant. It is about living without a mask, from within the structure we are, but open to what has no bottom. It means integrating complexity, desire, conflict, and the creative power that is the human being, and allowing it all to dissolve into something vaster, be one with the flow.

Or maybe do you think that reality made a mistake and YOU have to solve it?

There is perfect intelligence to all of this. We are all traumatized in some way during youth, and a lot of needs are not met.

Ultimately the eventual realization is that we are the only ones that can give ourselves everything that we always wanted.

And then we become capable of expressing ourselves in more healthy and effective ways.

[Breakingthewall]

29 minutes ago, SOUL said:

So it's 'incorrect spirituality' if it's not what you do? Does this mean you think my 'spirituality' is 'incorrect' because I'm not looking to unlock 'absolute truth' like you are?

There's no search for well being, it's just being it. Searching for something as if it's what one lacks contributes to the discontent people are experiencing.

 

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

 

Searching the way to open yourself to the absolute truth is not lack, it's what spirituality is about. Obviously there is a closure, that's why spirituality exist. It's the "science" to make the human open to the absolute. Then there is wrong spirituality, the one that closes, and right, the one that opens. 

It's not subjective, but entirely objective. It would be like saying that there's a correct psychology, one that accepts the patient and attempts to resolve their trauma, and an incorrect one, one that rejects them and attempts, for example, to resolve homosexuality.

[Breakingthewall]

16 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

There is perfect intelligence to all of this. We are all traumatized in some way during youth, and a lot of needs are not met.

Ultimately the eventual realization is that we are the only ones that can give ourselves everything that we always wanted.

And then we become capable of expressing ourselves in more healthy and effective ways.

Id say the point is to use trauma as a driving force for openness. Emotional trauma is inevitable, and it's always an evolutionary driving force. Human beings are the way they are because it's efficient to be that way.

There comes a time when the evolutionary push leads to the spiritual path. It's something real, not an escape or an attempt to feel better, but a step the human mind takes. And the human mind is trying to find the best way to achieve this, as it always does.

[Wilhelm44]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Id say the point is to use trauma as a driving force for openness. Emotional trauma is inevitable, and it's always an evolutionary driving force. Human beings are the way they are because it's efficient to be that way.

There comes a time when the evolutionary push leads to the spiritual path. It's something real, not an escape or an attempt to feel better, but a step the human mind takes. And the human mind is trying to find the best way to achieve this, as it always does.

I hear you, for me emotional healing is a vital element of the spiritual path, not something separate from it. Many people have big awakenings, but their lives still suck, precisely because there's still loads of emotional healing to be done.

[Breakingthewall]

33 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Then, for the sake of investigation, I pointed out that perhaps your lifestyle is rather poor because you haven't given any evidence to the contrary (

How do you know? I have done a lot of things. I'm now involved in intense things. 

35 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

What I meant is that there are endless things to do. You could eat ice cream, go jet skiing, watch videos of Remi Jones, aka my favorite porn actress ; you could do anything, but your attention has been directed precisely to "spirituality is often anti-human."

Yes because I'm interested in spirituality. I'm sorry if for you it's not right 

 

37 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Right now, I'm having a problem with people. I sometimes try to pretend to be a very serious and tough character, powerful in my control. (neurosis, why do you think i often talk about it)
When in fact, it's to hide the fact that I'm angry about not having a girlfriend while they talk about their affairs, that I act (in denial, obviously) like a simp here and there, that I want to receive without giving to others, etc.

Ok but all that It is unimportant in this context, which is a thread about spirituality, specifically about the inherent duality of nonduality.