Xonas Pitfall

Reality vs. Consciousness (Chicken-Egg Problem)

203 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, James123 said:

Hey brother.

Thank you very much for your answer.

However, please do not believe what you said. These are all beliefs.

Best Regards,

Yours aren't beliefs? Seems that your goal is disempower the others to empower yourself. 

So, the other guy shouldn't believe what he said because are beliefs but he should believe what you said because are truths? Where is the difference?

Edited by Breakingthewall

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2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yours aren't beliefs? Seems that your goal is disempower the others to empower yourself. 

So, the other guy shouldn't believe what he said because are beliefs but he should believe what you said because are truths? Where is the difference?

My brother, is there any belief when so called mind is completely empty (in that moment)? However, not the attaching the word of "empty mind", however when so called mind is completely empty (in that moment). What is there? 😊 

Just empty your cup.

Edited by James123

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's always existence because non existence doesn't exist,

My brother, Isn't your infinity covers anything and everything? 😊 It doesn't seems like it (as what you said) 😊 

 


"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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3 hours ago, James123 said:

My brother, is there any belief when so called mind is completely empty (in that moment)? However, not the attaching the word of "empty mind", however when so called mind is completely empty (in that moment). What is there? 😊 

Just empty your cup.

When the mind is empty of thought many things can be there, fear, lack, sadness, desire. The real barriers are energetic not just conceptual thought.

It's not difficult empty the mind if you use to do meditation 

3 hours ago, James123 said:

My brother, Isn't your infinity covers anything and everything? 😊 It doesn't seems like it (as what you said) 😊 

 

I didn't use the word infinity. 

Ok, then, when your mind is empty and you are enlightened as you said, what is the reality? Try to explain it

Edited by Breakingthewall

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29 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

When the mind is empty of thought many things can be there, fear, lack, sadness, desire. The real barriers are energetic not just conceptual thought.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to jerk. However "empty mind is actually genuinely not knowing or forgetting anything and everything". 

30 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Ok, then, when your mind is empty and you are enlightened as you said, what is the reality? Try to explain it

I never said that I am enlightened. Enlightenment so called happens when I/universe/infinite/  duality drops. Therefore, actually and only Be.

When you genuinely not know forget about reality I have no idea even what is reality, me, enlightenment, universe, infinity, experience.

However, when consciousness or being merge with duality, reality can only be Love. Purpose of creation is Love. Because, love is what Real infinity is. However, you or i can read entire library about love, but if one didn't feel or become the love for a second, can not comprehend via understanding or brain or mind. I really can't explain what love is.

I can only explain what I feel Love is, conscious precious gift to itself. Therefore, creation, experience, duality is created, only to experience love.

Wisdom is knowing I am nothing,Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.

Nisargadatta Maharaj


"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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23 minutes ago, James123 said:

Wisdom is knowing I am nothing,Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.

Nisargadatta Maharaj

 

Nisgardetta is interesting but very vague, limited, and frustrating. It completely denies form and self as nonexistent. Mystics who claim that the reality of form doesn't exist are very toxic; they instill in people's minds ideas that close their minds.

Look for example that quote, it's designed to sounds great, to sell. It's meaningless. 

Nisgardatta was a guy with some natural openness, charismatic but swallow. And a compulsive smoker. Someone who needs intoxicating his body all time operates from the lack. But maybe you think that this is just a thought?

23 minutes ago, James123 said:

Purpose of creation is Love

Who has that purpose? Why there is a purpose? A purpose implies intention to achieve a goal, then implies lack, because it's done to get something that you lack. 

Edited by Breakingthewall

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11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

Nisgardetta is interesting but very vague, limited, and frustrating.

I can only smile to you 😊 

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Who has that purpose?

Being. If it was enlightenment, we haven't these conversations. Because, it is always is.

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Why there is a purpose? A purpose implies intention to achieve a goal, then implies lack, because it's done to get something that you lack. 

Instead of purpose you can say reason too. For me, purpose is not a goal. Because, feeling of love doesn't come from action, it comes with actionless. Therefore, actionless flow with the purpose without any effort. 

Edited by James123

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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38 minutes ago, James123 said:

can only smile to you 😊 

I understand your point, since he's famous, it's crazy that I dare to say he's wrong. That's why you smile. It's good that he smoked 80 cigarettes per day, it shows he was enlightened 

38 minutes ago, James123 said:

 

 

38 minutes ago, James123 said:

feeling of love doesn't come from action, it comes with actionless. Therefore, actionless flow with the purpose without any effort. 

Then action is not love? Or thoughts? Aren't they love?

Edited by Breakingthewall

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10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's good that he smoked 80 cigarettes per day, it shows he was enlightened 

What about if he doesn't smoke, it shows that he is enlightened? 😊 

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then action is not love? Or thoughts? Aren't they love?

If there is attachment with thoughts, love is not there, because one is still attached with past and future. However, if one not attach with thoughts and only be present in the moment, only love arises. Actually, anything and everything is love. However, love can only feel when there is effortlessness. Therefore, there is actually no action or thoughts. There is only love.

I even love talking and sharing with you even if we agree or disagree. Because, this moment will never happen again.


"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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17 minutes ago, James123 said:

What about if he doesn't smoke, it shows that he is enlightened? 😊 

Even he didn't smoke it's obvious that he operates from a closed frame and tried to seduce and appear interesting 

17 minutes ago, James123 said:

there is attachment with thoughts, love is not there, because one is still attached with past and future. However, if one not attach with thoughts and only be present in the moment, only love arises. Actually, anything and everything is love. However, love can only feel when there is effortlessness. Therefore, there is actually no action or thoughts. There is only love.

I even love talking and sharing with you even if we agree or disagree. Because, this moment will never happen again.

 I think it's very easy stop thinking, if you use to meditate you can stop the thoughts easily. If you really trascend the conceptual level you would perceive that there are many levels in the psyche, they are in your cells, energetic structures absolutely real and very strong. The real work starts here, when you see beyond the conceptual. The conceptual is just the surface.

Edited by Breakingthewall

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1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

 I think it's very easy stop thinking, if you use to practice meditation you can stop the thoughts easily. If you really trascend the conceptual level you would perceive that there are many levels in the psyche, they are in your cells, energetic structures absolutely real and very strong. The real work starts here, when you see beyond the conceptual. The conceptual is just the surface

Just completely let go of mind chattering. And see  😊 


"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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@Breakingthewall moreover, know this, if births are chipping or car is passing, and you can hear it, these are still thoughts. Nothing is happening out, all is within. And let go the mind chattering for permanently. Then see, if there is any eyes to see 😊 


"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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14 minutes ago, James123 said:

Just completely let go of mind chattering. And see  😊 

Seems that you didn't read. Let's repeat: I can stop the mind easy because I did a lot of meditation, I can go walking in the street and stop thinking, and if I do sit meditation, more easy. I already told you in the previous post, but if you didn't read, let's see if now you do. 

Then, I easily perceive that under the layer of the structured thought there are many layers of closure, innate structures that build the human psyche, there is where the real meditation starts, when you see what you are. 

Then , let's see if this time you get my idea: the thoughts are just a consequence, stopping thinking is not the real deal , it's just superficial. I'm telling it because I did meditation and psychedelics for years.

Anyway, let's stop those conversations, if you can't do a real conversation , do your thing to feel good.

Edited by Breakingthewall

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1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then, I easily perceive that under the layer of the structured thought there are many layers of closure, innate structures that build the human psyche, there is where the real meditation starts, when you see what you are. 

Then , let's see if this time you get my idea: the thoughts are just a consequence, stopping thinking is not the real deal , it's just superficial. I'm telling it because I did meditation and psychedelics for years.

When you forget everything, that's when mind chattering stops😊 

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Anyway, let's stop those conversations, if you can't do a real conversation , do your thing to feel good.

All good my brother. I feel good 😊 same wish for you.

Best Regards,


"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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15 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Xonas Pitfall As far as the chicken egg problem think of God as the ultimate paradoxical strange loop.  Thats a feature not a bug.   Infinity can do the impossible because it has no limits.  There's nothing outside of it to limit it.  Anything outside of it is inside of it.

This I understand conceptually, but if I truly ask myself if I’ve experienced, believe, or know this, I’m not quite sure. That was my original question in this post.

How do you know this isn't just how the mind works, and that it’s all happening in my mind? Sure, the mind has an infinite looping property, and yes, it's contingent for reality to exist; but can’t I just say it’s contingent for reality to be perceived, not exist? How do I know if my mind dies, then everyone separate from my mind in this "reality" will die too? I cannot ever know this. Nothing I ever experienced points to this, both logically and experientially. So, I wanted to ask: how do I contemplate this further so I can grasp what is being said? Thank you so much! ❤


! 💫. . . ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ . . . 🃜 🃚 🃖 🃁 🂭 🂺 . . . ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ . . .🧀 !

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29 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

So, I wanted to ask: how do I contemplate this further so I can grasp what is being said? Thank you so much! ❤

Realize that existence is absolutely logical. First understand what logic means. Means relationship, that implies coherence. Existence and coherence are a tautology.

Everything that exists is a manifestation of reality, and the only possible manifestation is through relationship. Without relationship, there is no manifestation, or existence, or becoming. Any relationship can unfold into infinite cause-and-effect relationships. If you transcend relationships, you open the door to absolute reality, to the substance of relationships. Then you return to relationships and see how they unfold synchronously and perfectly in a dance of total beauty.

Edited by Breakingthewall

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On 7/25/2025 at 9:50 AM, Xonas Pitfall said:

 

How do you know this isn't just how the mind works, 

Awakening 😀 

Specifically the facet of Infinity.  You can become directly conscious of the nature of Infinity/God/Reality/Consciousness.  It is realized that all of these words are identical.

 

Edited by Inliytened1

 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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22 hours ago, yetineti said:

They are both consciousness because they are the same.

It is impossible to distinguish the two with words for this reason.

They are the same, although it feels they are not.

There are differences. But they are the same.

So the awareness the person has is the same as reality altogether?

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14 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think it's better don't use word to define the absolute, but if we have to use some it's better to use words that are open.

Unfortunately what we think and Truth do not always align.

14 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Anyway the point in spirituality is understanding what closes and understand that the push has to be towards openness and dissolution.

No— the point is just Truth. Openness and dissolution have no more to do with Truth than anything else. It’s a bias you have.

14 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

What I see is that in modern spirituality the word conciousness is used as sinonimous of absolute reality and it's extremely confusing because conciousness points to a relative idea, being concious of. If you start with a confusing base then everything grows is confusion 

It’s confusing because you haven’t directly become aware of it. And then it will still be confusing. It is synonymous, though.

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