Reality vs. Consciousness (Chicken-Egg Problem)

[James123]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's always One. Infinity.

No, infinity is something that "you" "experienced or become infinite within the experience". Therefore, separation.

Moreover , "you" as an attachment attached with meaning of word infinity, which is "limitless or endless".

Infinity just covers the duality or universe" not the Absolute Truth. Because, You become infinite in your life time and create ideology (get lost in the meaning and experiencing) on it as in believing that it covers Absolute. 

When you surrender so called this body or mind, infinity is going to vanish. Because, it still belongs to self identity.

 

Edited Thursday at 04:10 PM by James123

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, James123 said:

No, infinity is something that "you" "experienced or become infinite within the experience". Therefore, separation.

No!

You are Infinity.

There is nothing but Infinity.

Stop with your games.

Edited Thursday at 04:15 PM by Leo Gura

[James123]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

No!

You are Infinity.

There is nothing but Infinity.

If this ideology makes you happy, keep believing. 

However, just Remember these words, when the so called physical death comes for your own sake.

SURRENDER!

Much love and respect to you.

Best Regards,

[Someone here]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

You are defining it calling it conciousness.

What is happening right now has no name. This is obvious as shit . However the word" consciousness "is more accurate than "a big hairy dick ".

13 minutes ago, James123 said:

If this ideology makes you happy, keep believing. 

However, just Remember these words, when the so called physical death comes for your own sake.

SURRENDER!

Much love and respect to you.

Best Regards,

That's the beauty of it . Surrender or not doesn't matter..your so called soul will leave your so called body .when so called death comes and you feel the so called pain you are going to curse so called God and the day of your so called birth. 

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What is happening right now has no name. This is obvious as shit . However the word" consciousness "is more accurate than "a big hairy dick ".

You could call it reality , then there is no misunderstanding 

[Sugarcoat]

If consciousness/awareness is reality then what do we call the personal consciousness/awareness that the person possesses and is aware of itself (subject) and the world (object)?

Edited Thursday at 04:51 PM by Sugarcoat

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You could call it reality , then there is no misunderstanding 

Why is it even important what it's called ? I'm saying it has no name but that does not mean anything goes and you can call it cheesecake and that will be as truthful and accurate and representative as calling it reality .

Are you conscious or sleeping right now while talking to me ? Obviously you are conscious.  So whats your proplem with calling it consciousness? 

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You are imagining a distinction between the Absolute and Consciousness. They are identical.

You imagining a distinction between the Absolute and Consciousness, is suffering

My experience of their sameness is not a perception but a release and a taste of Heaven, a place where no distinctions remain.

If they are truly the same, the goggles of consciousness, that which makes differences seem real, is no longer needed and let go of.

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Why is it even important what it's called ? I'm saying it has no name but that does not mean anything goes and you can call it cheesecake and that will be as truthful and accurate and representative as calling it reality .

Are you conscious or sleeping right now while talking to me ? Obviously you are conscious.  So whats your proplem with calling it consciousness? 

 

Because if you internalize that reality is exactly consciousness, you unconsciously create a mental framework in which consciousness is something taking forms, and you believe it, it's like you really see it, and you believe that's enlightenment when it's just another frame. The point is to break the frame, not to create another one. And the word consciousness, at least for me, is a closure.

Let's see, you might agree that reality is you, but you perceive yourself in a limited way. So what you're looking for is to break those limits and perceive yourself as totality, what you ultimately are. Then if you stay in "consciousness," you won't be able to do it. Any closure, any definition, has to disappear.

 You have to do something real,.a real action outside of the mental framework. Erase the human for a while, and the absolute can manifest. The word "consciousness" is within the human mental framework. The word reality means absolutely nothing because has not opposite, so it's more innocuous.

[Breakingthewall]

Let's see, without change, is there consciousness? You will see that if there is no change, there is no time, there is no becoming, there is no experience, so there is no consciousness. So, for consciousness to exist, change is necessary. Change is always the case, since the absence of change doesn't occur; it's "no happening." But this is not the point, it's what is fundamental . I think it's pretty obvious that both consciousness and experience are expressions of the absolute. The absolute is the source of consciousness and change, where both occur, what allows infinite change and infinite conciousness happen due the limitlessness. And the absolute is you, you could call it God, and in you, experience and consciousness always occur

Don't you see it?? It's clear!

Edited Thursday at 05:22 PM by Breakingthewall

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

So what you're looking for is to break those limits and perceive yourself as totality, what you ultimately are. Then if you stay in "consciousness," you won't be able to do it. Any closure, any definition, has to disappear.

Isn't that exactly the point that me and you have discussed in my thread about "can a psychedelic take you to the end of ends ?"

I have no answer to that and that is why I posted that thread .I'm looking for an answer myself. 

 

[Xonas Pitfall]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Because if you internalize that reality is exactly consciousness, you unconsciously create a mental framework in which consciousness is something taking forms, and you believe it, it's like you really see it, and you believe that's enlightenment when it's just another frame. The point is to break the frame, not to create another one. And the word consciousness, at least for me, is a closure.

I think, if I'm being very charitable, the reason why consciousness is often equated with "God" is because of its properties:

1. The only thing that has ever been omnipresent, ever-present, in your life is that awareness, that consciousness. Therefore, it carries the property of omnipresence, one of the core attributes of God, and it passes the neti-neti test. Who are you if not your thoughts, body, emotions, and senses? Consciousness! Has there ever been a moment in your life when you weren't you? Being Yourself? You can never escape your own perception. It feels like this cat-and-mouse game, where you try to create something outside of perception, but then perception immediately captures it, haha ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ . . .🧀 !
2. Since it's connected to the mind and the ability to take in, be, and perceive anything, it holds the property of emptiness and infinite fluidity of imagination.
3. Because it's the first primordial necessity for anything to be experienced at all, it has that creator/origin property, that sense of being the ground of creation.
4. And based on my trips, once I elevate to high enough states of consciousness, I reach this pure, transparent awareness, a hyper-reality, which seems to directly control reality and perception. So, there definitely appears to be something like God-consciousness.

It's like: what are the properties of God?
Omnipresence, transparency, unfiltered perception, pure understanding, truth, being, ever-present, ever-now.
And the only thing that actually has all those properties right now, here, in this moment, is that sense of "consciousness" or "I am-ness."

However... I'm still unsure if this is a good implication or a logically sound deduction. Something in this feels a little confusing, and I haven't fully resolved it.

Edited Thursday at 05:30 PM by Xonas Pitfall

[James123]

55 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Surrender or not doesn't matter..

The you will see why the terminology of hell is created 😊 

[James123]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Stop with your games.

I only say the Truth, and not playing any games. If you like it like it, if you don't, leave it and respect it.

Much love and respect to you.

Don't forget what I said.

Edited Thursday at 05:33 PM by James123

[Someone here]

@James123 what is hell ? 

[gettoefl]

Consciousness is God splitting itself into pieces, because that is one possibility to try out.

It's a dead end, a bridge to nowhere, a day-trip to hell.

God stands for, g-otten o-ver d-reaming

present company notwithstanding.

Edited Thursday at 05:40 PM by gettoefl

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

However... I'm still unsure if this is a good implication or a logically sound deduction. Something in this feels a little confusing, and I haven't fully resolved it.

Sure, because although everything you've said is true, they are positive properties that define "something," and therefore close the doors of your perception. The absolute total can only have a negative definition: limitlessness. Or redundant: absolute total.

What is sought is the total rupture of the human structure to achieve total openness to the absolute. The rupture must be TOTAL ,leaving nothing behind. Consciousness, intelligence, whatever, are structural frameworks of the human mind. They are not false; they are structures, and structure is synonymous with limit. They seem like open, unlimited structures, but they are not. It is extremely subtle. It is not about having a debate to define what reality is, but about adopting the energetic vibration that allows for openness. It is a fact, not a definition.

[Sugarcoat]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@James123 what is hell ? 

Didn’t you just describe your life as constant suffering? Sounds like hell to me

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Didn’t you just describe your life as constant suffering? Sounds like hell to me

No . The suffering of this life is one thing and religious hell is something else . Its a blazing boiling lava and fireworks that will make your body go through a pain orgasm .

My life is not that.

[Breakingthewall]

25 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Isn't that exactly the point that me and you have discussed in my thread about "can a psychedelic take you to the end of ends ?"

I have no answer to that and that is why I posted that thread .I'm looking for an answer myself. 

 

A psychedelic can help you do it, not do it. To do that, you must be willing to dissolve into reality, an act of true surrender. The only way to see the absolute is to be the absolute. You can't see it from the outside, so you must let your human structure disappear completely and be one with the total. If deep down you don't want to, you'll grab onto something and think you're watching and understanding from the sidelines, but you won't, because there will be duality. It doesn't matter if you take half a kilo of 5 meo, if your inner will is to resist, you will resist.

You could read a Sufi named al Hallaj, I discovered him 2 days ago and I think he points to the absolute better than no one

Edited Thursday at 05:49 PM by Breakingthewall