She wants kids - I don't. Give up SEX and companionship?

[Lucasxp64]

12 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

Don't even talk about your income or social status. Get good at redirecting attention, like a magician.

I realized the girls that felt attracted to me didn't give a shit about my income. It went as far as simply just being able to handle the logistics. That was it.

I even had one chick recently lending me some money out of friendship. Funny enough, she was the kind that didn't have much time to chat, but was the quickest to help me out when I mentioned I was going  through some shit.

[Emerald]

These all seem like very simple scenarios to navigate if you value integrity... and you aren't in scarcity mindset.

Just don't sleep with or get involved with women you're not actually attracted to. If someone (male or female) gets into a relationship with someone they have no attraction to, it just won't work.

And don't pass yourself off as monogamous if you don't want to be monogamous. Simply own being poly... or wanting to sleep with lots of women.

And just be straight-forward about not wanting children.

All of these issues really come down to scarcity thinking... and believing that you need to sleep with women you don't find attractive or misrepresent your intentions to get laid.

Just trust that some women you're attracted to will also be attracted to you... and that some of those will also not want children and be okay with hook-ups.

[Leo Gura]

Yes, if you don't value sex, every decision is very simple.

[Lucasxp64]

36 minutes ago, Emerald said:

And don't pass yourself off as monogamous if you don't want to be monogamous. Simply own being poly... or wanting to sleep with lots of women.

The issue is merely one of abundance. Polygamy is acceptable but not ideal for me, ideally I want monogamy with the right girl. It's only acceptable polygamy to me due to the lack of options, I'm off-put emotionally by the idea of getting emotionally invested with somebody polygamous.

I had some a terrible experience with one of them, she was deceitful to me and I could feel her manipulating and gaslighting me into believing being monogamous. Then, we open up to each other to truth. It was making me feel sick in my stomach that I felt she wasn't being truthful. And from there it just devolved into debauchery, the kinds of conversations and absurd stuff she would tell me. 

Edited July 24 by Lucasxp64

[Princess Arabia]

11 hours ago, Joshe said:

Girls only sleep with a guy multiple times if they consider them a long term prospect.

Such bullshit crap. That's why men get surprised when the one using them for their dicks leave or using them for validation. Women do the same shit men do, it's just they hide it better because it's not expected of them. This is why some men think women are confused, no they have confused you. Players are getting laid left and right and it's not because they're considered long-term prospects.

Women usually only find out they're just as much players as men can be by accident and when the guy falls for them and they want out; and since it's the guys that are usually bailing out first, they surprise themselves that they can sleep with a guy without caring for him personally; it was just a feeling they were after and he was the one to make them feel that but wasn't looking for long-term which is all done unconsciously. Imo, guys fall for women quicker than women do, women just fall quick because of unchecked emotions then regret it later because she was 'entered' and that's what she base her feelings off, not the guy.

Edited July 24 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

5 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

And I strongly recommend integrity, every action has consequences. You fool some girls and then you fall in love and ...she fools you lol

Funny, this aligns with my comment.

[Lucasxp64]

20 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

they surprise themselves that they can sleep with a guy without caring for him personally;

Exactly. The girl that fucked with my head most recently was like that. It just happened that her personality was more ambiguous, she had a mix of romantic desire to feel comfortable to be sexual with someone, but also in her head she had extreme fantasies and intent for extreme promiscuity. I learned all the little dirty secrets of her mind, because I literally made her cum harder saying them to her after I learned she was such a slut like that. And she told me: "I'm so fucked, you know every little dirty secret about me like nobody else knows."

She would keep filling up my mind with all kinds of polygamous ideas that didn't make me feel comfortable. She didn't want "don't ask, don't tell." She actually got turned on by me speaking about other women and had fantasies of me having other women alongside her. But she also wanted me to see her with other guys.

The whole thing just devolved into this, I felt being used for the sexual energy. The romantic part of myself was completely shut down about her at this point, there was just some small resemblance of it remaining because she also liked it a bit. Like the whole thing of being called "my love" by somebody like that and answering to her on the same tone, and I'd end up lying to myself about my emotions. Too much cognitive dissonance.

All for what? For the sake of sex. 

Edited July 24 by Lucasxp64

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Lucasxp64 said:

The issue is merely one of abundance. Polygamy is acceptable but not ideal for me, ideally I want monogamy with the right girl. It's only acceptable polygamy to me due to the lack of options, I'm off-put emotionally by the idea of getting emotionally invested with somebody polygamous.

I had some a terrible experience with one of them, she was deceitful to me and I could feel her manipulating and gaslighting me into believing being monogamous. Then, we open up to each other to truth. It was making me feel sick in my stomach that I felt she wasn't being truthful. And from there it just devolved into debauchery, the kinds of conversations and absurd stuff she would tell me. 

Just be straightforward and honest about what your motivations are. Otherwise, it's out of integrity.

But the thing is, you don't even need to be romantically involved with a woman to know if you want a serious relationship with her. So, it's not like you have to be in a bunch of relationships with women at once to know.

It's just your scarcity-thinking that makes you consider all these "What if" scenarios.

Just build a social circle for yourself with both men and women in it. And then, you'll eventually develop feelings for someone who will reciprocate them. And as long as you are social, things will arise organically.

I can tell by the way you write about your dilemma that you haven't yet had really deep feelings for a woman. It's more like the question "Who do I find attractive enough to want a relationship with?"

But attractiveness is just the first bar of consideration. And once that bar is crossed, there are deeper feelings of desire for pair-bonding that arise when there is something deeper there. And no logistics are needed simply because you're certain that you want something deeper with this particular person.

But because you haven't had that desire yet, you're stuck in these logistical thoughts around the attractiveness of the woman... and how to navigate situations you don't want to be in... and considering trade-offs. It's all too logical.

The reality is that, if you're thinking logistically, you're not going to be well aligned with the deeper kind of connection that begets a fulfilling relationship because you're in your head thinking about pros and cons and trade-offs.

Just trust that options will be there, open your heart, be yourself... and (most importantly) be social... and you will eventually find a woman you genuinely want to be with.

And you'd probably benefit from allowing these relationships to slow-burn and develop organically... instead of trying to jump right into something romantic or sexual. That will give you a more platonic period of time to get to know a bunch of people... and then have feelings arise organically. 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, if you don't value sex, every decision is very simple.

Whether in integrity or out of integrity... a man can easily have sex with someone if he's a social guy and is willing to interact with women.

There's no need to misrepresent one's self to get sex. If a man wants just sex, there are plenty of women who just want that too. So, just be straightforward.

It's sexual coercion to do it any other way... as a woman who says 'yes' based on misinformation when she would have otherwise said 'no' is not actually consenting to the sex.

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

Such bullshit crap.

I didn’t mean 100%, just that it’s almost always the case. I’ve been with quite a few women. None of them slept with me twice just for my dick. Except one nympho. I’ve been slept with and ghosted several times, but all the ones that came back, they were interested in something more than sex. This is not only true of my experience, but every one of my friends, so it’s largely accurate. 

[Emerald]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't know about that.

If I operated on that rule I would have lost 90% of sex.

My standards are impossible to meet.

It's the issue of Maximizers versus Satisficers... only as it applies to relationships.

Maximizers are always out looking for better and better and better choices... but never feel satisfied with their choice. It's all expansion and no contraction. Maximizers are always looking for the most ideal and most perfect choice.

And when applied to relationships, they can never find a partner that they actually want to invest in because there's always a sense of needing more and more and more ideal options... as they are not emotionally mature enough to appreciate an imperfect relationship with an imperfect person (which all humans are).

Satisficers on the other hand, find what they like and then commit themselves to that one choice and find what is satisfying in that choice. So, it's a brief expansion and then a contraction and deepening of a relationship with that choice. It's a devotion to what is.

That's true whether it's a career, a relationship, a purchasing decision, a life path, etc.

Beware the path of the Maximizer. It's a foolish path that presents itself as the 'wisdom' of having high standards.

[Joshe]

23 minutes ago, Emerald said:

there are plenty of women who just want that too. 

Not in my experience. One night stands can be common but as far as women wanting to just be regular fuck buddies, I have not seen plenty of those. They’re out there, but it’s not common. At least on the east coast. 

Edited July 24 by Joshe

[Emerald]

Just now, Joshe said:

Not in my experience. One night stands can be common but as far as women wanting to just be fuck buddies, I have not seen plenty of those. They’re out there, but it’s not common. At least on the east coast. 

I meant more along the lines of one-night stands. There's plenty of those.

But either way, the OP should not lie about his intentions. Otherwise, he'd be engaging in sexual coercion because the women would be agreeing to sex under false pretexts... which is non-consensual.

But since he's also looking for a relationship, my advice is for him to keep his sexual search separate from his romantic search.

For romantic relationship, he should probably just develop a social circle where he can be social and get to know lots of people. And deeper feelings will arise organically with someone. That will help him find someone to be in a relationship with that he really feels connected to.

Until then, he can go out to bars and clubs and seek out one-night-stands to get his sexual needs met.

The issue is that he's combined these goals together as one. And it's causing him to feel like he's in a dilemma where he needs to lie and sexually coerce women into sleeping with him in order to get both sex and the potential for a longterm relationship. But that's just not the way to go about either of these goals.

It's chasing two rabbits and catching none... combined with the false notion that rabbits are a rare animal.

[Joshe]

@Emerald Agreed. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

a man can easily have sex with someone if he's a social guy and is willing to interact with women.

If a man wants just sex, there are plenty of women who just want that too. So, just be straightforward.

No.

You don't understand how sex works for men.

As a woman you can go to any bar, any night, and get laid with no strings attached. A man cannot do that.

You underestimate the difficulty for men to get laid by a factor of 100x. When that is your view of it, yeah, it seems like no integrity needs to be compromised. Every single man compromises integrity to get laid because if he didn't he would be starved of sex for years. This is unimaginable to a woman.

You are thinking of the average man as having the attractive pull of a Brad Pitt, a celebrity, or a world-class pickup coach. That's not how it is for average guys. When you are not Brad Pitt, you have to settle for scraps just to get laid rarely. And you do not want to commit to scraps. But even scraps will refuse to have sex without commitment.

You have fantasies of how this works because the truth of it is far too painful to know.

Men have way less options than women understand, unless the men are exceptional. But women only think about exceptional men and project that exceptionality on all men.

Go look at what options an Incel has. He will be lucky to get one woman in 5 years. And that will be a poorly matched woman who is barely worth having sex with. But she will expect a commitment.

Edited July 24 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

Yes you should end it if you’re not compatible. Lying about what you want to get her to stay would be wrong.

[Emerald]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No.

You don't understand how sex works for men.

As a woman you can go to any bar, any night, and get laid with no strings attached. A man cannot do that.

You underestimate the difficulty for men to get laid by a factor of 100x. When that is your view of it, yeah, it seems like no integrity needs to be compromised. Every single man compromises integrity to get laid because if he didn't he would be starved of sex for years. This is unimaginable to a woman.

You are thinking of the average man as having the attractive pull of a Brad Pitt or a celebrity. That's not how it is for average guys. When you are not Brad Pitt, you have to settle for scraps just to get laid rarely.

I'm hardly talking about Brad Pitt. I'll remind you that I'm originally from a redneck town in Florida with all manner of odd people.

And I know tons of very unattractive guys who were getting girlfriends and hooking up just because they had a social circle that had women in it and were interacting with women regularly.

Perhaps I'm biased because I've definitionally only interacted with men who have women in their social circle. But the reality is that, if you develop a social circle with women in it, you can definitely get laid no problem.

I know a guy who was super creepy with a high pitched voice... and who looked like a walrus with the white whiskers and everything... and he still hooked up with a couple girls in my wider social circle.

So, I'm sure that men who have no social circle might find it difficult to get laid because they need to learn how to approach random women. But any man who has a co-ed social circle and who is social will be able to find someone to sleep with.

[Leo Gura]

@Emerald You can't screw around shamelessly in a social circle. Those social circle girls will demand dates and commitment to provide consistent sex. If you pump and dump a girl in your social circle she will tell everyone and poison the well.

You are assuming a level of sexual abundance that only exists for exceptional men.

Edited July 24 by Leo Gura

[Emerald]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@Emerald You can't screw around shamelessly in a social circle. Those social circle girls will demand dates and commitment to provide consistent sex.

Fair enough. I don't recommend the OP using his social circle for random hook-ups.

I'm just saying that sex isn't that scarce to come by. It's just that men have a lot of limiting beliefs that keep them held back from opportunities for interaction with women and hook-ups... and make it out to mean more about themselves and their level of attractiveness than is necessary.

But even if there were a sense of extreme scarcity of women who are open to hook-ups (which there isn't)... a guy can't be operating off of scarcity thinking. 

It's his scarcity mindset that's causing him to feel like he needs to act out of integrity... and not actual scarcity itself.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I'm just saying that sex isn't that scarce to come by.

Yes it is.

You are assuming a level of sexual abundance that only exists for exceptional men. And even then, those men are chronic liars to maintain that abundance. Every single guy who has that kind of sexual abundance is either exceptionally good looking or a liar. Usually both.

You are talking about players. I know dozens of them. Lying is their lifestyle.

There is no sexual abundance without an abundance of lies.

Edited July 24 by Leo Gura