What is femininity ?

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

@Emerald that's true that Truth can be realized through feelings, but Truth is not bound by feelings. The deep unfathomable depth of an infinite grand canyon just swallows you as you fall into it can be surrendered to through feelings.

What I'm saying is that polarizing away from feelings and seeing them as an invalid or inferior source of wisdom will create major blindspots to Truth.

For example, it is feeling that allows us to realize truths that cannot be experienced purely intellectually.

Like in the case of the realities of suffering. Without feeling, we can approach the topic of suffering only intellectually. But we cannot glean the real wisdom to truly understand the situation.

I see it all the time on this forum, where so much foolishness is normalized through complex intellectual frameworks that inadvertently normalize what ought not to be normalized.

[theleelajoker]

4 hours ago, Emerald said:

It's really just a tell about the person who's saying it. Like attracts like.

Typically, one of the biggest tells about how a person operates in the world is in how they describe other people... especially romantic partners. If a person is fairly positive about other people, that person is probably seeing themselves reflected back to them in their choice of company.

The same is true of a person who has nothing good to say about other people.

It's like if you hear a woman talking about how all men cheat and are horrible people that can't be trusted.

And I have no doubt that the woman is actually experiencing that, because those guys really do exist.

But it is more of a tell about her... at the very least about her self-esteem and sense of self-worth creating a lack of discernment... and at most, she's a crazy one too.

So, when I hear men complaining about women being crazy and unhinged... at best, I think he's got low self-esteem and isn't discerning enough about his choice in partners... and at worst, he's also unhinged as well.

Yeah I agree about like and like attracts. That's why I said seems to my type when saying that there are many emotionally ungrounded women:)

They were/are great humans, same as my male friends with strong emotional experience. Just experiencing life differently 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

I've personally been through and healed from some pretty bad attachment issues.

Most of the time when you have attachment issues - you will attract someone with the pathology also.

Anxious, ambivalent & avoidant attachment all gravitate to each other due to being 'triggered' to what they perceive as love. Due to the attachment issues the person doesn't actually have a clear understanding of mature and secure love. They are drawn the the type of love they are familiar with as conditioned by infancy. And it doesn't take much to cause these issues in an infants development. Any display of inconsistent care and affirmation from a caregiver can cause it. The smallest things... 

If you have these issues - you will naturally screen out securely attached people without even realising it as you won't be familiar with the love and affection they give out. You tend to attract instable individuals.

Essentially - what you think you want ISN'T what you need. You feel love is the rush. Endorphins. For anxious attachment - people pleasing your significant other and hiding parts of yourself to make them feel safe, loved. Needing constant connection. Or you are avoidant and feel swamped from too much closeness. You feel your sense of self dissolve away... so you withdraw. Or you are ambivalent attachment - you sway between anxious (constantly needing reassurance, closeness) to avoidant (withdrawing feeling swamped). 

It's a horrible thing to have to heal from - my life has been filled with a constellation of people with this pathology. Needless to say attachment issues go hand in hand with poor boundaries.

What healed me? A narcissist stomped my boundaries so hardcore I snapped. I just lost it. He made me realise how much I wasn't vocalising my needs and trying to please him. I was exploited - and I was to blame. I was complicit. 

I recognise love now, and I recognise I was not qualified in the slightest to know what I needed. 

It took a long time to trust that who I was attracted too was what was good for me.

 

[Xonas Pitfall]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

What healed me? A narcissist stomped my boundaries so hardcore I snapped. I just lost it. He made me realise how much I wasn't vocalising my needs and trying to please him. I was exploited - and I was to blame. I was complicit. 

Would you mind sharing a bit more about this? (If it's not too private, of course!) I find these moments of snapping and realizations deeply intriguing and educational. Thank you so much for being so open and vulnerable here! ❤ (っᵔ◡ᵔ)っ

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I recognise love now, and I recognise I was not qualified in the slightest to know what I needed. 

What did you find love to be, actually, that you thought it wasn’t before? What kind of alternative personal needs and relationships did you discover?

[Leo Gura]

I don't have any kind of fetish for crazy women. Still, plenty of the women I dated had clinical mental conditions. They seem normal from the start, then the crazy slowly comes through.

In general I find that many attractive young women are emotional messes.

Edited Friday at 08:48 AM by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

If you want to see the perfect example of grounded masculine, Peter Ralston is it. He's objective and truthful to the bone. There is zero feminine fluff.

I'm not saying that's the only way to live. But it shows you exactly what women lack.

[Leo Gura]

17 hours ago, Emerald said:

Some truths can only be made conscious through feeling.

That is true.

Feeling cannot be ignored. It plays an important role in being human.

[meta_male]

17 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Maybe it’s a difference depending on education level you go to

Could be cultural differences. Aussie women I found to be outright crazy...more like the US girls I’ve seen online. In comparison, Swiss women (probably similar to Swedish ones) seem more emotionally contained. That said, even here, most women I’ve dated were emotional messes. Flaky, hyper-sensitive, and hard to rely on.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you want to see the perfect example of grounded masculine, Peter Ralston is it. He's objective and truthful to the bone. There is zero feminine fluff.

100% agree regarding Ralston. This is the read I get on him through body language & facial expression/tone (as opposed to words). I don't view him as threatening or angry - just authentically expressive.

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm not saying that's the only way to live. But it shows you exactly what women lack.

My personal view is most attractive women ride on privilege they are unaware of. Sometimes they are though and abuse it.

They don't have to invest in themselves. They are somewhat carried through life via appearance. 'Beautiful women die twice' Once when their beauty fades, and the other when its dirt nap time.

I have (had) this warped pathology going where I was insecure in my intelligence and capabilities in life. I assumed any opportunity offered to me was because I was young and attractive, and not based on merit. I saw the privilege of attraction early on. This made me sick. So, I flipped and invested into my attributes that had nothing to do with appearance, determined to prove to myself. I went the complete other direction. I don't think this is normal though. I just naturally valued my intellect and capabilities over anything appearance based. Imposter syndrome drove me to work on myself even more-so. But I was always concerned with existential matters since I realized what death was - around age 11. 

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, meta_male said:

Could be cultural differences. Aussie women I found to be outright crazy...more like the US girls I’ve seen online. In comparison, Swiss women (probably similar to Swedish ones) seem more emotionally contained. That said, even here, most women I’ve dated were emotional messes. Flaky, hyper-sensitive, and hard to rely on.

Yea it’s like I have stereo type in my head how some US women are but I haven’t encountered it in Sweden

Also I don’t meet a lot of people so it’s hard to make conclusions 

 

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

My personal view is most attractive women ride on privilege they are unaware of.

Women have always relied on men for survival. So this is how the feminine tends to survive.

As long as a woman knows how to please a man, she won't have much problem surviving. So many women take on that role. This allows the woman to avoid confronting serious reality. She lives in a kind of socially constructed bubble detached from reality. She can get away with that as long as she's young, hot, and pleases men. It's a whole survival strategy, but at the cost of serious disconnection from truth. These kinds of women tend to be the most emotionally unhinged because facing serious reality is what's required to be emotionally grounded.

The reason I am grounded is because my survival and success required it. No one else was going to take care of me. No one else would even give me emotional support. If I had sugar daddies my whole life, I would be a spoiled, ungrounded person.

Edited Friday at 09:20 AM by Leo Gura

[meta_male]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

These kinds of women tend to be the most emotionally unhinged because facing serious reality is what's required to be emotionally grounded.

Why would women bother being emotionally grounded? Half the guys chasing them wouldn’t know the difference.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

30 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Would you mind sharing a bit more about this? (If it's not too private, of course!) I find these moments of snapping and realizations deeply intriguing and educational. Thank you so much for being so open and vulnerable here! ❤ (っᵔ◡ᵔ)っ

A touch too much vulnerability for me

31 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

What did you find love to be, actually, that you thought it wasn’t before? What kind of alternative personal needs and relationships did you discover?

You might laugh given the forum - TRUTH

Being honest. Authentic. I learned to call my loved ones on their shit - when appropriate. It is the more loving act. Fear is actually a total deception. You need to surrender to truth, because you owe it to your loved ones to care for them through integrity. Before, I surrendered to the needs of another - but to be free from fear you need to surrender to truth. Even when it is hard. Truth really is love...

Truth should never be wielded as a weapon. But it is the avenue to true intimacy. I recognized my own self-deception - that I was twisting myself into something else in an attempt to get a mans love. Lies to get something. You always lie to get something... but I fractured my consciousness when doing this. Split myself. Broken.

So, this truth acts as a natural filter now - anyone that isn't mature, secure and authentic just cannot last in the face of it. I no longer attract any of the previous men I would due to this. 

So I found the nature of love and truth within the terrible friction of relationship. 

It made me realize there are many paths to the truth

[Natasha Tori Maru]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Women have always relied on men for survival. So this is how the feminine tends to survive.

As long as a woman knows how to please a man, she won't have much problem surviving. So many women take on that role.

This is closer to it than my rap

[Xonas Pitfall]

6 hours ago, ExploringReality said:

@Emerald that's true that Truth can be realized through feelings, but Truth is not bound by feelings. The deep unfathomable depth of an infinite grand canyon swallowing you, as you fall into it,  you can surrender to it through feelings and connect with truth but truth is not dependent 

We have to be very careful in how we define these terms.

When we talk about Truth, what are we referring to? If we’re discussing concepts like God realization, ego submission (or loss), love, beauty, the mysterious dream-like nature of reality, and experiencing being rather than just thinking, analyzing, or strategizing, I would say all of these aspects are typically more aligned with what is traditionally considered “feminine.” In this context, they appear to be a significant part of the truth.

As I mentioned earlier, many times when discussing these ideas, Leo responds with, "You need a higher level of consciousness to experience this," which is fine, but this isn’t the autistic, step-by-step, logical answer you'd expect; he said himself that it was only after several years of inquiry, experience, appreciating, and basking in God/enlightenment that it really clicked for him that God has a natural order and logic to it.

My issue lies in how we often define masculine and feminine intelligence. It's often framed as smart versus dumb, rational versus irrational, or order/structure vs delusional.

๑ This is a tale as old as time, a pattern that keeps repeating everywhere ๑ Even Spiral Dynamics follows this very structure.

You have an egoic, self-oriented, survival-aware, individual-based level, the masculine. Then, it shifts to a more communal, group-centered, world-aware level, the feminine. This is the core of these dualities. If you fail to acknowledge the intelligence in either of these perspectives, you’ll continue to hold a very distorted, biased, and ultimately invalid view of what masculine and feminine actually are.

Quote

• Beige (Masculine): The masculine begins at the self-focused level, where survival is the main goal. At this stage, it’s about primal instincts and the basic need to survive. The ego is strongly centered around "me" and "mine."
• Purple (Feminine): The next stage moves to the communal level, where the individual realizes there’s more than just "me", there’s us. The feminine perspective develops as the ego starts recognizing the interconnectedness of life, shifting focus from individual survival to group survival. This is where you appeal to the tribe, the gods, and other forces beyond yourself for protection, guidance, and a better way of life.
• Red (Masculine): At this stage, the individual ego grows in strength and self-assertion. The focus is still on individual power, but now there’s an awareness of the need for dominance over others to secure that power and survival.
• Blue (Feminine): This is where structured order, rules, and traditions come into play. The focus shifts to the group’s moral order and shared values. The feminine here looks at social coherence and what’s beneficial for collective stability.
• Orange (Masculine): The masculine moves into strategic thinking, focusing on growth, achievement, and rational success. It's about individually mastering the world, using logic to innovate and build a structured society.
• Green (Feminine): The feminine in Green emphasizes community and empathy, with a focus on social justice, equality, and collective well-being. It’s a stage that values emotional intelligence and the need for connection, beyond just reason and logic.
• Yellow and Turquoise (Integration): These stages start blending the masculine and feminine.

Chris Langan is a good example of how far you can get with pure, rigid, logical analysis and little to no spirituality or feminine embodiment. Don't get me wrong, he achieved a lot, but even Leo admitted that he wouldn't consider Langan to be God-realized, which is a fair point. Plus, I’m pretty sure Langan himself acknowledged that he was able to do his work because of his woo-woo experiences and lucid dreams, which he referenced while trying to explain his findings.

Science, rationality, pragmatism, empiricism, logic, and systematization are what you get when you focus solely on those aspects of reality. That’s why ‘mystics’ and highly open-minded individuals, who weren’t afraid to explore the paranormal, undefined, and more 'chaotic', often ‘feminine’ parts of reality, were needed to make greater scientific breakthroughs.

It’s also funny how liberalism is viewed here as a more progressive and correct view, yet if I ask some hardcore, masculine, grungy redneck, they'd say liberalism is for 'pussy beta cucks' and that you're not a real man if you hold that perspective! This means conservatism is seen as largely more masculine, not liberal; yet somehow, the feminine is considered the higher perspective? In fact, if an objective alien were to observe both from a non-partisan perspective, they’d probably conclude that conservatism feels more masculine, while liberalism feels more feminine.

F: 'So, you had more mystical experiences with nature or God, right? You’re talking about feeling and intuition, and that led you to some aspects of truth, correct? You do realize that talking about things like beauty, love, selflessness, and transcendent reality is a very feminine thing, right? You’re talking about ego dissolution, going beyond reality and pragmatism, and seeing the other in yourself, love and connection.'

M: 'Uh... No, no, that’s also masculine, because, uh… I logically inquired about all of this while I meditated on a rock alone, tough guy monk stuff! I don't care about those things, it's just the Truth, and it's masculine to value Truth, yeah!'

F: 'So, if those things aren’t feminine and they’re not part of the feminine approach, then what is feminine intelligence and spirituality?

M: 'Uh, new-age spiritual nonsense, delusional astrology... that’s it! Dumb chicks thinking they can manifest anything they want with the law of manifestation, duh! Just feeling and being a brainless bimbo instead of logically inquiring and deconstructing, yeah!'

It’s like, when it’s convenient, the mystical, intuitive, and "dreamy" aspects are suddenly masculine because of the way they were 'logically' processed, but anything that’s labeled 'woo-woo' and retarded gets dismissed as feminine. 

Does that make sense? The distinction seems unfair and incoherent, not to mention other important elements I mentioned above.

I feel like Leo and a lot of guys who agree with this view often underestimate how feminine much of what they’re saying sounds (and I'm not shaming that; I think it's awesome!).

But let’s zoom out for a bit.

If I brought in an objective alien or a random, non-biased human who has some vague idea of what feminine and masculine mean, and I showed them some of Leo’s posts, they’d probably think it sounds like some delusional manifestation talk chick, completely unrooted in reality, posting #LawofAttraction tumblr quotes.

• Hey, I’m telling you, you can imagine a unicorn! If you just manifest and wish for it, the unicorn will appear right in front of you!
• The highest beauty is selflessness.
• The highest beauty is that everything is an illusion.
• A lot of Leo’s videos were very much in the 'hipster' green stage spiritual realm, yoga guides, meditation.
• And a lot of them were titled with feminine themes too: 'What is love?' 'How do you express love?'"
• You don’t get the truth, you cannot prove the truth, you need to embody the truth, be the truth. You’re not in the right consciousness or frequency!
• It’s all a dream... nothing is real... I manifest/create my reality and self.

Again, I’m not trying to mock, nor am I saying these posts aren’t true or meaningful. I just want to offer some perspective on the unfair bias and nitpicking that seems to be happening here. I hope I’m making sense. Please feel free to correct me if I’ve misunderstood anything 🤍

[Xonas Pitfall]

46 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

You might laugh given the forum - TRUTH

 

Love it! ❤ 

I think an important distinction I’ve personally made is between kindness and integrity. Some people might seem kind and caring, but if I notice a lot of inconsistencies between their words and actions, it should raise red flags. Truth and integrity go hand in hand, and if one is missing, the other likely is too. I 100% agree!

Edited Friday at 10:14 AM by Xonas Pitfall

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, meta_male said:

Why would women bother being emotionally grounded? Half the guys chasing them wouldn’t know the difference.

Because they want to be happy themselves. Not everything is about being chased by the other sex

[theleelajoker]

@Xonas Pitfall I enjoy your posts, IMO refreshing views and nice deconstruction of believes/assumptions

[meta_male]

36 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

Because they want to be happy themselves. Not everything is about being chased by the other sex

Sure. But emotional grounding takes work. Most people chase comfort, not truth and depth. And if you're constantly validated just for existing, growth doesn't feel necessary. Until reality hits hard.

[theleelajoker]

13 minutes ago, meta_male said:

Sure. But emotional grounding takes work. Most people chase comfort, not truth and depth. And if you're constantly validated just for existing, growth doesn't feel necessary. Until reality hits hard.

Yes, then the apparent "comfort" becomes very uncomfortable.