What Is Russia's Endgame?

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

Tell me, which threat are the Russians defending themselves from?

Maybe they don't like that in Ukraine the NATO place a lot of nukes, over all if in Ukraine there is a anti Russian nationalism who repress the 10 millions of Russian who live there . They hate Russia because many reasons, holodomor, etc, maybe they are legitimate, but anyway it's a treath. The NATO knew it perfectly before pushing in Ukraine, that's why they do. Pressure to weaken Russia.

[Daniel Balan]

36 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Maybe they don't like that in Ukraine the NATO place a lot of nukes, over all if in Ukraine there is a anti Russian nationalism who repress the 10 millions of Russian who live there . They hate Russia because many reasons, holodomor, etc, maybe they are legitimate, but anyway it's a treath. The NATO knew it perfectly before pushing in Ukraine, that's why they do. Pressure to weaken Russia.

That is a legitimate concern that Russians should have, but the west would never put nukes in Ukraine, and Ukraine should not opress Russians living in Ukraine. But this doesn't justify what Russia is doing right now!

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

but the west would never put nukes in Ukraine

I'd say that the Russians doesn't believe that. There are american nukes is Germany, Holland , turkey, Belgium and other places. 

Edited July 11 by Breakingthewall

[Daniel Balan]

37 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'd say that the Russians doesn't believe that. There are american nukes is Germany, Holland , turkey, Belgium and other places. 

The countries you outlined are in any shape or form bordering Russia, or are even in close proximity to it? Why aren't there nukes in Finland, the baltics, Poland, Romania etc? They have been NATO members for over 2 or 3 decades!

[Daniel Balan]

@Leo Gura My personal opinion is that if Ukraine falls, Russia will push as far as it can go westwards, trying to anchor its border with the west on the Charpatian mountain range in Romania and Slovakia, they will push all the way to the baltic sea shores, thus wiping off the map the baltic states, and if they are bold and strong enough they will try to take half of Poland to try to narrow the gap of the enterance into the Eurasian plane! And this time the Russians will not have vassal states as in the Soviet era, they will annex the baltics , the half of Romania, the half of Poland and Slovakia into Russia proper, turning them into Chechen like republics, so if the west ever try to take them back, the Russians will be able to use nukes! 

Sounds far fetched but this is my hypothesis of what will happen once Russia does away with Ukraine!

[Breakingthewall]

54 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

The countries you outlined are in any shape or form bordering Russia, or are even in close proximity to it? Why aren't there nukes in Finland, the baltics, Poland, Romania etc? They have been NATO members for over 2 or 3 decades!

Well, those countries don't have nukes by virtue of a 1997 treaty, but they also promised not to expand NATO's borders, and then they did. Besides, Russia fears missile shields on its borders and any disruption of the balance.

NATO could, at any given moment, decide to put nukes in Ukraine, just as it decided to expand NATO, and then there would be nothing to do; Russia would be surrounded, and it doesn't want that. It's all symbolic and paranoid on both sides. If the nukes fly, it's over, but they really don't feel good about Ukraine being in NATO. They feel that Ukraine, although independent, is linked to Russia. It's like if your enemy fucks your ex-girlfriend, he could do it with others. Why precisely her? What's the point?

Edited July 11 by Breakingthewall

[PurpleTree]

4 hours ago, Daniel Balan said:

@Breakingthewall The West will never invade Russia because, the truth is, even if more technological advanced, all the people in the west are pussies that cry even if they scrached their knee a little! We are pussies compared to the battle hardened Russians, we value our western conforts way too much to ever invade another country, let alone a behemoth like Russia! I'm talking about Europeans, the US sure, they will forever wage wars in the middle east, but Europeans are far too pussies to ever go to war again.

You’re wording it wrong. Maybe you could also say. Russia is such a hell hole. Such an abomination of humanity. Such a shithole country. That many Russians rather go to Ukraine to get blown to pieces by Bayraktar drones than to stay there. While we in the west have something to live for.

[Twentyfirst]

Whatever they want to do the European leaders want to do 5-10 times worse to their own people 

Worry about the higher priorities first. Take care of Putin AFTER you take care of the Epstein island leaders you pay all your tax to empower 

[Daniel Balan]

49 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

You’re wording it wrong. Maybe you could also say. Russia is such a hell hole. Such an abomination of humanity. Such a shithole country. That many Russians rather go to Ukraine to get blown to pieces by Bayraktar drones than to stay there. While we in the west have something to live for.

Exactly! That is exactly what I wanted to say! But in general the average Russian man is more manly than the average westerner. Russians are much more accustomed to the hardships of life! The reason Ukraine fared so great against Russians is because Ukrainians have even more grith and are battle hardened by life, they have that stress tolerance that many westerners lost due to too much confront.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

LOL none of what you've mentioned is even slightly realistic or feasable. We should be more realistic about Russia's potential and future, otherwise we are making them much more of a boogieman then they actually deserve to be. In reality, the most optimistic scenario for Russia is that it manages to survive after the inevitable fiasco in Ukraine

[Mandrake]

11 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

Russian focus is on getting NATO from their borders as they consider it a security threat and violation of the promises western leaders made to Gorbachev and Yeltsin in 1990 not to extend Nato to east Germany and beyond.

 

There was never such a promise.  I've heard this statement many times, but there is no evidence to it whatsoever.

[BlueOak]

• To shorten their borders in central Europe to keep them manageable with dwindling manpower.
• To acquire more population for their declining demographics.
• To dominate the natural gas regions in the areas where they are in conflict over.
• To take over control of their natural gas pipelines to Europe
• To restore control over their shipping lanes and naval influence.
• To restore a Russian Empire from a dwindling regional power.
• To counter NATO's influence and create a new BRICS influence over the world.
• Trying to remake the USSR borders.
• The nationalist hardliners that support Putin require war.
• To splinter America from Europe
• To put Europe in fear of Russia
• To undo liberalism and create a new fascist world order, especially around itself.
• Putin's Ego flexing, an old KGB fossil stuck in a dead era.
• To replace the dollar as the world's currency.
• To replace America's influence in the Middle East and africa.
• To thin out native populations and replace them with white people. - This is why non white minorities are used first in their war.
• To destroy Ukraine and absorb it.
• To remove democratic politics from a region they consider part of Russia and a people they consider Russian.
• To permanently live in their victim complex.
• Because fascists need an enemy to exist.

 

Edited July 11 by BlueOak

[Daniel Balan]

32 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

• To shorten their borders in central Europe to keep them manageable with dwindling manpower.
• To acquire more population for their declining demographics.
• To dominate the natural gas regions in the areas where they are in conflict over.
• To take over control of their natural gas pipelines to Europe
• To restore control over their shipping lanes and naval influence.
• To restore a Russian Empire from a dwindling regional power.
• To counter NATO's influence and create a new BRICS influence over the world.
• Trying to remake the USSR borders.
• The nationalist hardliners that support Putin require war.
• To splinter America from Europe
• To put Europe in fear of Russia
• To undo liberalism and create a new fascist world order, especially around itself.
• Putin's Ego flexing, an old KGB fossil stuck in a dead era.
• To replace the dollar as the world's currency.
• To replace America's influence in the Middle East and africa.
• To thin out native populations and replace them with white people. - This is why non white minorities are used first in their war.
• To destroy Ukraine and absorb it.
• To remove democratic politics from a region they consider part of Russia and a people they consider Russian.
• To permanently live in their victim complex.
• Because fascists need an enemy to exist.

 

Finally someone that has the same biases and worldview towards Russia as I do! I love when people share my biases!

[ExploringReality]

@Leo Gura

The US military and others like China, Russia ect... Closely watch and monitor each other very closely every second of every minute. Why? Fear yes, but also control and gaining power. The collective Ego. Neither will stop, because fear of surprise and attack because both are playing a game of gaining power, fear, control and domination of the world.  

Notice the relationship this has with UFO's and the incidents that have happened not once but multiple times in several military bases at moments of high risk nuclear war. Just imagine a scene like in a movie, where people and operators behind control panels and surveillance cameras during moments of high collective military crisis, alams going off and shit is about to hit the fan!!! 3, 2, 1..... and then suddenly everything shuts down and operators are smashing buttons and nothing is responding. Can you imagine I seen like that? People panicking and freaking out because they don't have control over their own systems and are completely powerless by some unknown Force. It's crazy because Russia also is believed to have nuclear submarines patrolling American and European Coast. Crazy

Edited July 11 by ExploringReality

[Basman]

Russia's goal isn't necesarilly to destroy or conquer Ukraine but to destabilize it's government. Democracy and western influence are a threat to Russian authoritarianism, so Russian escalation can be thought of as largely Putin's war. It's about regime security and a mythical idea of Russia's place in the world. That a world without Russia shouldn't exist. They are fighting their own growing irrelevancy as a blue/orange country and war puts the spotlight on them.

The west/NATO is a threat to Russia but only in so far that they are an authoritarian state as opposed to democratic. Putins nightmare is a Qaddafi situation happening in Russia. 

[Ajay0]

10 hours ago, Mandrake said:

There was never such a promise.  I've heard this statement many times, but there is no evidence to it whatsoever.

You can check out these threads of mine showcasing the views of American intellectuals like Noam Chomsky and Christopher Hedges...

Quote

[Mikhail] Gorbachev said that he would agree to the unification of Germany, and even adherence of Germany to NATO, which was quite a concession, if NATO didn't move to East Germany. And [George] Bush and [James] Baker promised verbally, that's critical, verbally that NATO would not expand "one inch to the east," which meant East Germany. Nobody was talking about anything farther at the time. They would not expand one inch to the east. Now that was a verbal promise. It was never written. NATO immediately expanded to East Germany.

[Mikhail] Gorbachev complained. He was told look, there's nothing on paper. People didn't actually say it but the implication was look, if you are dumb enough to take faith in a gentleman's agreement with us, that's your problem. NATO expanded to East Germany.

Okay, NATO expanded to East Berlin and East Germany. Under [Bill] Clinton NATO expanded further, to the former Russian satellites. In 2008 NATO formally made an offer to Ukraine to join NATO. That's unbelievable. I mean, Ukraine is the geopolitical heartland of Russian concern, quite aside from historical connections, population and so on.

 

Quote

 

 First of all, I was in Eastern and Central Europe in 1989, covering the revolutions there. I was present when the promises were made to Gorbachev not to extend NATO beyond the borders of a unified Germany. I was there. I heard it. I was in the room. The US betrayed that promise. NATO was formed to prevent a Soviet invasion of Europe, but after the collapse of the Soviet Union, it became redundant. It should have been disbanded.

 

 

[Guest Nilsi]

Let’s be real: they’ve basically committed a huge strategic blunder thinking they could just blitzkrieg Ukraine like they did with Crimea.

Sure, Putin wants Ukraine, but the West isn’t going to let him have it, and now he’s so deep in the fatalistic logic of his imperial ambitions that there’s no real way out of this perpetual meatgrinder.

At the same time, Russia has pretty much cucked itself to China - signing all these import-export deals on terms completely dictated by Beijing because they’ve lost their biggest market in Europe. And now Putin’s even opened up Russia’s main strategic asset - the Arctic - to Chinese joint ventures, when China basically had no serious foothold there before.

Yeah, Russia’s economy has held up better than some expected, and the West isn’t exactly immune to fatigue. But over time, they’re just drifting into becoming a China proxy. And at some point, China will probably lean on them to end a war it doesn’t actually care about in the first place.

And honestly, all this Western talk about “Trump holding the keys to end the war” is just NATO propaganda as far as I’m concerned - because they really don’t want to admit that China is the actual daddy in this game.

[Guest Nilsi]

10 hours ago, Basman said:

Russia's goal isn't necesarilly to destroy or conquer Ukraine but to destabilize it's government. Democracy and western influence are a threat to Russian authoritarianism, so Russian escalation can be thought of as largely Putin's war. It's about regime security and a mythical idea of Russia's place in the world. That a world without Russia shouldn't exist. They are fighting their own growing irrelevancy as a blue/orange country and war puts the spotlight on them.

The west/NATO is a threat to Russia but only in so far that they are an authoritarian state as opposed to democratic. Putins nightmare is a Qaddafi situation happening in Russia. 

I know it’s hard to admit, but Putin genuinely wants Ukraine. He’s been absolutely explicit about it. At the end of the day, this isn’t just some calculated strategic play - it’s a mythopoetic imperial obsession.

[Guest Nilsi]

PUTIN WANTS UKRAINE.

It’s honestly bewildering that people can’t grasp this simple point. This is not primarily a strategic military intervention. Russia has played its entire hand, and the strategic damage they’ve inflicted on themselves is immeasurable.

Again, this is Freud’s death drive playing out on a collective scale. Putin is so utterly obsessed with Ukraine that he’s willing to lose everything - which he already mostly has. As, I’ve said, Russia is slowly turning into a Beijing proxy with no meaningful agency left, all because he refuses to abandon his object of desire.

Edited July 12 by Nilsi

[Guest Nilsi]

8 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

PUTIN WANTS UKRAINE.

It’s honestly bewildering that people can’t grasp this simple point. This is not primarily a strategic military intervention. Russia has played its entire hand, and the strategic damage they’ve inflicted on themselves is immeasurable.

Again, this is Freud’s death drive playing out on a collective scale. Putin is so utterly obsessed with Ukraine that he’s willing to lose everything - which he already mostly has. As, I’ve said, Russia is slowly turning into a Beijing proxy with no meaningful agency left, all because he refuses to abandon his object of desire.

Do you realize that China hasn’t built a single car factory or made any significant economic investment in Russia, while forcing them to import all their commodities? They don’t respect Russia in the slightest. They’re systematically making them completely dependent.

Ironically, all this talk about “not buying into NATO propaganda” completely misses the point. The biggest propaganda of all is the illusion that Russia is some serious geopolitical power that has to be contained. That’s the real red herring - meant to distract from the fact that China is the real master.

Edited July 12 by Nilsi