How much are the far left "killing" the Democratic Party?

[Hardkill]

 

Edited July 2 by Hardkill

[Jodistrict]

I am not sure what is hard left, but I think that it is obvious that catering to special interest groups like the trans issue had an effect.  On the last day of the election Republicans ran ads saying something like “we are for you, not for they”.   So, that is what the Republicans believed would be effective.   And the right wing has a sophisticated media that magnifies the drag queen images which to millions of conservative Christians brings up instant images of Sodom and Gomorrah (irrelevant if it is true or not).   

I think Bernie Sander’s  tour protesting the oligarchy was setting the right message – let’s make an economy that works for everyone.  We are all one and not an assortment of special identities.  I also like Governor Newsom for trying to move back to the center.   

I honestly don’t see Trump’s policies over time are going to be that popular, it was that poor optics made him look like the lessor of two evils to many people.

[Hardkill]

30 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

I am not sure what is hard left, but I think that it is obvious that catering to special interest groups like the trans issue had an effect.  On the last day of the election Republicans ran ads saying something like “we are for you, not for they”.   So, that is what the Republicans believed would be effective.   And the right wing has a sophisticated media that magnifies the drag queen images which to millions of conservative Christians brings up instant images of Sodom and Gomorrah (irrelevant if it is true or not).   

I think Bernie Sander’s  tour protesting the oligarchy was setting the right message – let’s make an economy that works for everyone.  We are all one and not an assortment of special identities.  I also like Governor Newsom for trying to move back to the center.   

I honestly don’t see Trump’s policies over time are going to be that popular, it was that poor optics made him look like the lessor of two evils to many people.

Yeah, I agree with those points you made, but what are Democrats going to do to figure out there messaging and optics issue? 

How are they going to be able to agree enough as a whole that the Democratic Party is moderate to traditional leaning on social issues, but economically populist on economic issues instead of just having many Democrats on one side of the party who are too left wing on both social and economic issues on one side of the party and then having too many Democrats on the other side of the party who play it too safe by trying to present themselves as being ideologically to the “center” or being a “me too Republican”?

Edited July 2 by Hardkill

[Jodistrict]

I was really impressed on how Governor Newsom stood up to Trump.  He really knows how to speak and looks like a president.   When it comes time for democrats to pick him or Vance, it won’t be a hard decision

[Hardkill]

5 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

I was really impressed on how Governor Newsom stood up to Trump.  He really knows how to speak and looks like a president.   When it comes time for democrats to pick him or Vance, it won’t be a hard decision

I thought that was good, but I still worry about him being easily perceived as a woke urban coastal elite from San Francisco, especially with dominance of the right-wing media being able to magnify that,

[Hojo]

If they sucked any harder I'd say they are losing on purpose.

Edited July 2 by Hojo

[BlueOak]

Depends if you want to lose again or not.

If you do want to lose, stick with the status quo, non-populist approach. This does terribly in a time when people are economically suffering and want a change candidate. Remember Obama CHANGE, he used to say that every 5 seconds - Now you could brand yourself as a change to Trump, seeing as he's a raving authoritarian lunatic but it's not as powerful, as the anti-Trump message just won't land with a lot of people currently.

If no you want to win and break the status quo, then you have an issue of actually swinging the pendulum left again. You've been heading right for 20 years, so its about time. It does come with some instability itself, but it's popular.

 

If the economy starts doing well, then the change candidate doesn't work as well. 

In a fascist state however, the left tends to be more popular, which is what Kyle highlights.
 

Edited July 2 by BlueOak

[BlueOak]

If I were to remove my bias entirely.

Just get some strong voices in there. Anyone who stands up to what's going on, they can have any political ideology. Get them on camera showing their emotion, showing the passion for their position. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

6 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

I think Bernie Sander’s  tour protesting the oligarchy was setting the right message – let’s make an economy that works for everyone.  We are all one and not an assortment of special identities

I think some people are so stupid and selffish that they prefer to have the nation nuked even if they die, just to have the satisfaction to see queers,drags,trans and lefts death. 

[Basman]

I think Americans democratically have a bias towards novelty since voting isn't mandatory. Establishment politicians are at a disadvantage under bull-shop newness. 

Identity politics has also been bad for the left. Made it more about cultural purity while largely ignoring bread and butter issues which makes most people feel left out. Economic populism is the left's strongest suit. Trump actually uses economic populistic rethoric a lot which helped him win.

[Aaron p]

If the left chilled with the whole gender stuff it would stop inflaming the right. #megaword

[BlueOak]

On 04/07/2025 at 1:12 AM, Basman said:

Establishment politicians are at a disadvantage under bull-shop newness. 

In hard times yes. Because the change candidate wins.

[BlueOak]

22 hours ago, Aaron p said:

If the left chilled with the whole gender stuff it would stop inflaming the right. #megaword

No it wouldn't, the right would just get outraged about the next thing on their list.

Homelessness.
Socialism.
Equal Rights.
Poor people.
Healthcare.
Spending.

Pick your poison.

Edited July 14 by BlueOak

[Aaron p]

On 14/07/2025 at 11:34 AM, BlueOak said:

No it wouldn't, the right would just get outraged about the next thing on their list.

Homelessness.
Socialism.
Equal Rights.
Poor people.
Healthcare.
Spending.

Pick your poison.

@BlueOak I dunno bro...this gender stuff seemed to really tickle their ass. One of the primary things that conservatives liked was Donald trump's initiative to enforce that there are only two genders. The conservatives got super triggered with the gender LGBTQAIABCDEFG+ movement 

[Raze]

On 7/14/2025 at 6:34 AM, BlueOak said:

No it wouldn't, the right would just get outraged about the next thing on their list.

Homelessness.
Socialism.
Equal Rights.
Poor people.
Healthcare.
Spending.

Pick your poison.

Those wouldn’t as effective to message on.

We have the polling and it clearly showed the gender stuff comprised their most effective attack ads and is trumps least unpopular position among the public.

[enchanted]

This is the topic that the left is debating right now. I'm agree with Ezra Klein and the Abundance movement that says the left is too mainstream, too centrist, too status quo. We need more bold radical ideas that captivate and inspire people. Maybe not more trans issues but more radical ideas to solve income inequality and better messaging. 

[BlueOak]

16 hours ago, Aaron p said:

@BlueOak I dunno bro...this gender stuff seemed to really tickle their ass. One of the primary things that conservatives liked was Donald trump's initiative to enforce that there are only two genders. The conservatives got super triggered with the gender LGBTQAIABCDEFG+ movement 

The right exists to be triggered, they remind me of the left 15 years ago. Outrage politics through and through, as bad as any detached feminist ever was or sovereign citizen, or insurrectionary anarchist is.

Genuine question

Would you say currently ICE occupying streets and having shootouts with immigrants, destroying the workforce, crashing food prices etc is more or less of a triggering issue than the culture war? Bearing in mind that most of those involved doing the shooting, invading schools etc and passing the policies are far right.

Second question: For the right and independents, is this more of a severe issue itself for the voters in America than the culture war? Which is more pertinent to the future of America rather than the present.

Because anything can trigger the right, people just need to tell them 'they' or 'those ones' are the bad guys. I don't think it makes any difference, only to their turnout. Better to check what independents care about.

Edited Thursday at 04:53 PM by BlueOak

[Aaron p]

On 17/07/2025 at 5:52 PM, BlueOak said:

The right exists to be triggered, they remind me of the left 15 years ago. Outrage politics through and through, as bad as any detached feminist ever was or sovereign citizen, or insurrectionary anarchist is.

Genuine question

Would you say currently ICE occupying streets and having shootouts with immigrants, destroying the workforce, crashing food prices etc is more or less of a triggering issue than the culture war? Bearing in mind that most of those involved doing the shooting, invading schools etc and passing the policies are far right.

Second question: For the right and independents, is this more of a severe issue itself for the voters in America than the culture war? Which is more pertinent to the future of America rather than the present.

Because anything can trigger the right, people just need to tell them 'they' or 'those ones' are the bad guys. I don't think it makes any difference, only to their turnout. Better to check what independents care about.

Honestly bro, I'm quite clueless with American politics. I'm Irish. It's just my intuitive sense when I see the right freaking out. I just intuitively sense that it might be the gender stuff. I'm a recovering conservative myself and I know that my conservative family and friends are more emotionally triggered by transgenderism than any other area of the lefts policies. For some reason, any time a political stance of any description pertains to sex, genetils, or gender, emotions flare. And I know that emotions are the things running the show. Actually it could be argued that I have a unique vantage point to view this stuff considering my proximity to right ideology. I was it.

Although I could be wrong for sure.

Edited 11 hours ago by Aaron p

[BlueOak]

I've seen issue after issue after issue trigger the right.

If we are talking about voting right now. Okay. I understand and accept your unique perspective @Aaron p. My family would have said something similar.

If we are talking about the damage being done to America, its the current immigration policy hands down. Anger at gay people isn't setting back race relations in America 50 years or gutting the American workforce with all the resulting cascade of problems both those things bring.

But we have to understand it's all about the propaganda being consumed. Another issue can and will replace it no matter what you do. It'll be the new thing pushed in the media and highlighted. Sure, there is a hatred of gay people in rightwing communities; there is also a hatred of black people, a hatred of socialists, a hatred of other religions, a hatred of fat people, a hatred of brown people, a hatred of poor people etc etc. It just depends where the media focus is. Gay people and immigrants are always easy targets for the venom of others, but homeless people get plenty of hate too for one easy example.

Edited 6 hours ago by BlueOak