What is meaning?

[Sugarcoat]

5 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Not so different at all. Humanity as a whole is about wellbeing. It was a lame joke, anyway. 

Then we are on a similar page 🫡

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

"Becoming conscious of what is = insight= change how you relate to it".

I like that. Did you create meaning by creating sth I like? 🧐

Of course. That way I can recruit more members to my cult - Meaningism.

Join in! Free pizza on Thursdays. 🍕🍕

Edited July 8 by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

32 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Either way it’s hopeless.

Why?

 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Again, what is an 'unlimited framework'? What exactly are you trying to convey with all that rhetoric?

Just admit you really don't know what you're talking about and engage in the questioning - the sky won't fall. Being a charlatan is not consistent with the spirit of this work. At the very least, try to be honest and clear - and actually open, for that matter. You say meaning is objective on the one hand, and on the other, you say it is given, as well as a result of infinite cause-and-effect relationships, whatever that means. Could it be that it isn't clear at all - hence the existence of this thread? Be open to this possibility.

It's not my fault that you can't reach the level to understand what im saying. Maybe if you stop insulting and you try to understand you could move bit forward. I'm talking from direct experience , if something is not clear, can be formulated again, but there is not a single lie or effort to appear more in what I said. It's direct experience without a molecule of doubt. Maybe even you could understand that this topic is not easy to articulate, do it clean is a challenge, and for me is a hobby, maybe a passion 

Edited July 8 by Breakingthewall

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

Either way it’s hopeless.

Well the wellbeing part isn’t working out so great for me so that’s right! 

[Schizophonia]

I regularly fall into this question in my trips 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Just admit you really don't know what you're talking about and engage in the questioning - the sky won't fall.

So you are telling that I'm lying to appear important. It shows your level of perception. I talk about this because I break the mental barrier more or less every day. It's something I've sought out as necessary and something I've learned to do. It's a difficult game; I assure you, there's no possible mistake.

Since I can't talk about this with anyone, I'm talking about it here. I can't avoid it. I know how the psyche operates to shut down. I see what the masters say, and I know they're wrong or lying almost always. It's absolutely obvious. I want to articulate the energetic structure that shuts down. I can't stop contemplating how it works, its mechanism. Everything I say here is intended to be totally impersonal, to speak from total clarity. Sometimes emotion escapes, but I try to keep it minimal. 

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Of course. That way I can recruit more members to my cult - Meaningism.

Join in! Free pizza on Thursdays. 🍕🍕

I bring the drinks!

[Sugarcoat]

On 2025-07-08 at 3:52 PM, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, if you understand what meaning is, you can turn it off at will and place yourself in a broader perspective. If you don't understand it, you will think that you are operating in a let say mystic or infinite perspective when you are still in the meaning, but amplifying it to the "divine" dimension or whatever

It seems all my mind does is interpretation I don’t know to turn it off 

[theleelajoker]

On 7/8/2025 at 7:33 PM, Breakingthewall said:

So you are telling that I'm lying to appear important. It shows your level of perception. I talk about this because I break the mental barrier more or less every day. It's something I've sought out as necessary and something I've learned to do. It's a difficult game; I assure you, there's no possible mistake.

Since I can't talk about this with anyone, I'm talking about it here. I can't avoid it. I know how the psyche operates to shut down. I see what the masters say, and I know they're wrong or lying almost always. It's absolutely obvious. I want to articulate the energetic structure that shuts down. I can't stop contemplating how it works, its mechanism. Everything I say here is intended to be totally impersonal, to speak from total clarity. Sometimes emotion escapes, but I try to keep it minimal. 

I appreciate the intention for clarity, but also very much like the personal stuff.  It's easier to relate to for me when it's not only meta. Personal stories matter IMO. And with certain meta topics, it's similar for me - can't stop contemplating and need to articulate it as well  

28 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

It seems all my mind does is interpretation I don’t know to turn it off 

How is the level of interpretation when you are interacting with other people, animals etc? I say this because if I noticed that when I am truly engaged, present in (inter)action, then the interpretation slows down. You said in a different thread you don't interact much, that might become vicious cycle.  Too much thinking earlier in my life, too little interaction, which causes more thinking, etc etc

[vibv]

We are the Meaning-Makers. This is our Divine Task. But we fell into darkness.

When Nietzsche said 'God is dead' you could also say 'The old Meaning-machine is dead and now we have to create our own!'—but we haven't started yet, for the most part.

We have no idea what we're capable of and instead stumble around in darkness and ask: 'Where does all this darkness come from?' and we grind our teeth.

Instead we have given meaning to the machines—social media, porn, bad news. It's time to finally take back what's ours: OUR FREEDOM! This is what we CRAVE! Freeeeeeedooooom, Freedom, Freedom, Freedom, Freedom, FREEDOM!! FREEDOM from our shackles that we ourselves have created and now struggle to break. No, it's worse—we resigned emotionally. 'I guess that's what it is. Welp, nothing anyone could do about it...' NO! THIS IS THE DARKNESS TALKING! Hello? Anyone in there? WAKE UP! WAKE UP! WAKE UP!

WAKE UP!

[UnbornTao]

@Breakingthewall I understand the difficulty of articulating these things, and I get your frustration - but that frustration is more about you than about me. Have you even bothered to understand - and properly answer - some of the questions I asked you above?

Quote

The only way a perspective can come to exist is as a limitation. That's what a perspective is. 

-

What do you take perspective and perception to be? And what about meaning?

Quote

Again, what is an 'unlimited framework'? What exactly are you trying to convey with all that rhetoric?

Quote

How could form exist without limit? (this includes "structure")

If you're as open as you claim to be, consider that you might be wrong in your stance on some fundamental things. Being open doesn't mean "everything is possible," nor does it mean "I can say whatever I want and that makes it true." It isn't merely a fantasy, an intellectual artifice, a social posturing, or a character trait. You need to be grounded and reconsider your stance on principles such as listening and openness - that is, if you care about being honest.

You can go over the questions and try to respond to them. Or keep babbling away.

Once you decide how to respond to this, we can switch back to the topic of meaning.

Edited July 10 by UnbornTao

[Breakingthewall]

40 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

@Breakingthewall I understand the difficulty in articulating these things, and your frustration, but the latter is more about you than it is about me. Have you even made an effort to understand (and properly answer) the questions that I made to you above?

If you're as open as you like to pretend, consider you might be deeply wrong with your stance on very basic things. Being open isn't 'everything is possible' or 'I can say whatever I want and this makes it true,' nor is it merely a fantasy, an intellectual artifice or a character trait. You need to be grounded and reconsider your stance on principles such as listening and openness. That is, if you care about being honest.

You can go over the questions and try to respond to them. Or keep babbling away.

And once you decide how to respond to this, then we'll be able to switch back to the topic of meaning. 

I've explained this to you four times in this thread, and then you respond dismissively, and I react stupidly because I find it frustrating. I'll explain it again. Unlimited Frame is a way of speaking; Frame is intrinsically limited. Let's look at it from another perspective: the absolute is limitlessness in itself; it is the absence of limits, absolute potential. It's not something, or someone, or consciousness; it's openness. This isn't understood by the mind because "openness" or "limitlessness" don't mean anything. You have to open yourself to it. As a human, you are closed by default. 

We are a structure that occurs, a possibility that is happening. The fact of the absence of limits makes it inevitable that infinite relationships occur, that structure and synchronize with each other. The manifestation of reality is infinite forms; the absolute is absolute potential. In those forms, a node of consciousness occurs: I, who perceive forms, other planes of reality between infinite planes, and can perceive their absolute essence. The absolute is not perception; it is what makes perception possible. As it is possible, it is, and is being now.

Any form is limited in all directions and dimensions and infinitely related to infinite forms. They are all the same: absolute potential manifesting. If you shift your focus and perceive yourself in your true nature, you realize what you are: the bottomlessness, the total openness that is everything. Potential equals real; manifestation is circumstantial; form appears or not; potential is. That is you. If you open to it, it is unequivocal. There is no more; it is the end game. Any "more" is form; it is in the dimension of manifestation.

If you don't like this explanation, it's ok, but if you say something insulting after I spend 15 min writing to explain as clear as I can and then you will show that your only goal is being above. Useless, but your choice 

 

Edited July 9 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

It seems all my mind does is interpretation I don’t know to turn it off 

The point is not stopping the interpretation, is realizing that interpretation is limited to this concrete experience and see through it as if it's transparent. It's meaningless from an unlimited perspective, then it becomes like transparent, empty of charge for a while

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The point is not stopping the interpretation, is realizing that interpretation is limited to this concrete experience and see through it as if it's transparent. It's meaningless from an unlimited perspective, then it becomes like transparent, empty of charge for a while

Sounds like seeing through the mind to me. Which is like seeing through the self, it’s all one structure

[Breakingthewall]

52 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

The only way a perspective can come to exist is as a limitation. That's what a perspective is. 

-

What do you take perspective and perception to be? And what about meaning?

Any perception comes from the form. The form is always, the formless is not , doesn't exist, formless mean changeless, existence is change, existence is the manifestation of reality. Then non existence is "never" . The form can perceive it's nature, it's nature is not changeless, or conciousness, is bottomless. No limits. It implies everything, you are that. It's impossible be wrong or in a mistake about it if you are open to it. It's possible being wrong about the nature of relationship and form, but if you erase any limitation of your perspective, the obvious remains

[PurpleTree]

On 2025-07-08 at 7:09 PM, Sugarcoat said:

Well the wellbeing part isn’t working out so great for me so that’s right! 

Yea that’s what i mean.

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Sounds like seeing through the mind to me. Which is like seeing through the self, it’s all one structure

The structure is who sees, what is seen is the totality. You are that because an structure is just an structure between infinite possibilities, the totality is always the totality, in the light of the conciousness or without it, it's not something or someone that happens,  wants, feels, creates, it's no limits, and you recognize yourself absolutely. Then you see the flow of the manifestation that emanates from it, forms above forms 

Edited July 9 by Breakingthewall

[Sugarcoat]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The structure is who sees, what is seen is the totality. You are that because an structure is just an structure between infinite possibilities, the totality is always the totality, in the light of the conciousness or without it, it's not something or someone that happens,  wants, feels, creates, it's no limits, and you recognize yourself absolutely. Then you see the flow of the manifestation that emanates from it, forms above forms 

So there’s a clear difference in being caught up in the form and only seeing the limited form vs seeing the totality. Like two completely different realities 

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Sugarcoat said:

So there’s a clear difference in being caught up in the form and only seeing the limited form vs seeing the totality. Like two completely different realities 

Form is always form, and you can't escape it, because you are that, but you are also the nature of the form. If you're closed to your nature, life is hard and a trap. If you're open, it's free, and beauty manifests. But that doesn't mean that if a misfortune happens to you, your entire human structure will obey its genetic programming, and you will suffer. I guess that if you are always open for years little by little the human structure gets less sharp and suffering can dissapear in big extent