Leo's Book

[Aether Phoenix]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You should not use AI to create revolutionary work.

🤦‍♂️ Don’t say this. 
 

Using AI, I’m implementing a brain-training technique aimed at reversing dementia. The model has provided numerous creative adaptations and upgrade ideas, each helping to refine and expand the capabilities of the technology.

 

Naturally, this is a cooperation exercise—and one shouldn’t depend on AI without critical oversight.

[Aether Phoenix]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I know exactly how I can leverage AI to write a great piece. Or images etc. I use it consistently at work every day running a construction business. I haven't attempted to master it, but I've fucked with it enough to know it is only as good as it's prompts. So theres that aspect for sure. 

But.

What I am actually talking about is Art. It's craft, the process. My mind goes to the age old statement 'Seperating the Art from the Artist.

Do you think people would revere the Mona Lisa as much if it was partially AI generated? Or do we value the labour, the skill, the knowledge applied, to it's creation? Mediums, knowing theory, form, light. Mastery. Is the Mona Lisa just a panting? Or is it the culmination of a lifetime of work? Is it about the artist?

When you think about art, we often don't seperate the art from the artist. There is reverence in something hard earned. Skill. Mastery.

It's not just all output. 

In reality often we cannot seperate the art from the artist. The person behind is as fascinating as the content itself.

I for one wouldn't put as much stock in an AI generated Mona Lisa.

I realise I am also raising the topic of Art and creation into this debate, and it goes deep.

You can have taste and vision, and this translates to your creative direction and output.

If we consider AI as a medium/tool, it is not superior. Just another medium for an artist. Like watercolour, oils. Pen and paper. 

I just view Leo as not selecting this medium/tool. 

I value your perspective. It makes sense. 
I just see AI as the brush that painted Mona Lisa. It is not an interference to the process, it is a tool to the process. 
 

The culmination of mastery was achieved with the technology of a brush, without it, Mona Lisa would not be possible. 
The culmination of work of a Master that works with AI will be something as brilliant as Mona Lisa, but more sophisticated. 
If Leonardo would have access to better brushes to paint Mona Lisa, there is no reason he shouldn’t use the best tool available to create his art. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 minute ago, Aether Phoenix said:

I value your perspective. It makes sense. 
I just see AI as the brush that painted Mona Lisa. It is not an interference to the process, it is a tool to the process. 
 

The culmination of mastery was achieved with the technology of a brush, without it, Mona Lisa would not be possible. 
The culmination of work of a Master that works with AI will be something as brilliant as Mona Lisa, but more sophisticated. 
If Leonardo would have access to better brushes to paint Mona Lisa, there is no reason he shouldn’t use the best tool available to create his art. 

I agree with this also, I think it comes down to how we view and use AI. It is just, to my eyes, not always just a tool. 

I think I am attempting to illustrate how using AI effects ones perception of the work. How it is received. 

If Leo has to stipulate he used AI in his book, how do we think this will effect how it is received? Do we need to state exactly where and how it was used? 

Why do we need to state when AI was used when posting on this forum? How often do we dismiss replies when we know AI was used? 

It's the perception I am fascinated with. 

Food for thought. Good topic for mind meals. Appreciate your input  

[Aether Phoenix]

In my view, there’s no need to announce you used AI—just as no one brags about using the internet. Yes, AI is powerful, but something even stronger will follow. What matters to me isn’t whether Leo leaned on AI; it’s whether the book transforms my life (I expect nothing less from him 🙂).

The perception about AI is indeed an Interesting topic 😉 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Aether Phoenix

You might like this read, it touches on both points we raised:

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/08/is-art-generated-by-artificial-intelligence-real-art/

[OBEler]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

For those of you who love AI, I will spin up an AI slop book and sell it to you. Everyone else will get the real book.

That'll teach you.

AI is like calculus. Use it . Don't do extra hard work alone. You know that if you feed ai with all your blog posts and say make a 1000 page book out of it, it would do that with great results. Saves you years of writing. I would buy it!

Edited June 28 by OBEler

[ChrisZoZo]

Well, you better hurry up because you don’t want to be behind aliens revealing themselves because your philosophy is not books not gonna be read. 

[MutedMiles]

13 hours ago, Aether Phoenix said:

Even if I am an engineer that studied Artificial Intelligence, I don’t care about it. What I care is what I can achieve with it. Technical aspects are not important to the discussion if you can use AI to improve a book. 
 

I understand what you mean about sense making, I just think it is irrelevant for the context of this conversation. Should we use or not AI to work, to be creative, to write books?
If you want you can avoid AI but you will become obsolete, because the quantity and quality of work I can create with it is incomparable. 
 

That doesn’t mean that there are a lot of people creating crap with AI, there are. Nonetheless, the problem is not the AI, is the person who use it. 

I could put AI debating with you much better than me 😁

I have been extensively using AI for many years, If you may have seen these models grow in last 7 to 8 years, "AI" the brand was always way ahead of "AI" the product.

Because the brand has billions of dollars in marketing momentum behind it. Since my opinions are purely based on my experience i don't care about all that crap of humanizing "AI", it's a tool and you can use it to be productive, pick and choose how and where you want to use it, with the right use you can be 100 times more productive, but not everywhere. 

From humanizing i mean, things like "thinking", "creativity", "intelligence" etc. It's producing tokens, it's not thinking. This distinction is not trivial. I don't know how much you understand the implications of this distinction.

Edited June 28 by MutedMiles

[Davino]

I believe the book would benefit from images and quotes. They will give nice anchoring and non-linguistic input.

[Aether Phoenix]

On 28/06/2025 at 0:42 PM, MutedMiles said:

I have been extensively using AI for many years, If you may have seen these models grow in last 7 to 8 years, "AI" the brand was always way ahead of "AI" the product.
 

I think you are too focused on the show of AI. When I am talking about AI, I am talking about concrete results it can give you in your day-to-day. The rest I agree with you. 

 

On 28/06/2025 at 0:42 PM, MutedMiles said:

From humanizing i mean, things like "thinking", "creativity", "intelligence" etc. It's producing tokens, it's not thinking. This distinction is not trivial. I don't know how much you understand the implications of this distinction.

Please explain to me. Since a language model really does emit one token after another, but describing it only that way is like saying a brain just emits electrical spikes. Whether those spikes—or those tokens—count as “thinking” depends on the level of description you consider relevant.

At the physical layer, both systems look trivial: signals in, signals out. The interesting question is what emerges at the computational and functional layers. Systems thinking describes how new properties or behaviors arise from the interactions of a system's components. 

Isn't AI thinking, or creative, or intelligent? If you forget it is AI, and you just read a conversation of a good model with a Human, without knowing it was AI, it will seem very creative, thinker, and intelligent to a third person. 

Edited June 29 by Aether Phoenix

[Aether Phoenix]

On 28/06/2025 at 1:25 AM, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Aether Phoenix

You might like this read, it touches on both points we raised:

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/08/is-art-generated-by-artificial-intelligence-real-art/

Thank you for sharing the article.

For me, there’s no doubt that AI-generated work can be considered art. When I watch a film, for example, I’m far less concerned with how it was made than with how it moves or inspires me. If a piece challenges my thinking, evokes emotion, or shifts my perspective, then it’s art—regardless of whether its creator is a human, an extraterrestrial, or a machine.

Moreover, there are now numerous instances where AI-generated works have won awards in creative competitions—sometimes even fooling juries who believed they were judging human-made pieces, as has happened recently in photography. This only reinforces the point: it’s the impact and resonance of the work that ultimately defines it as art.
For example, Leo, in his video about art, defines it as if you put a particular aspect of reality on a pedestal. AI has no problem doing that. 

Moreover, we are discussing it with the current models that exist today. In 10 years, I think the question will be whether a human can produce art 

[Leo Gura]

On 6/28/2025 at 2:19 AM, OBEler said:

You know that if you feed ai with all your blog posts and say make a 1000 page book out of it, it would do that with great results. Saves you years of writing. I would buy it!

I am sorry you believe that.

AI hasn't even begun yet and people have already stopped thinking.

Edited June 29 by Leo Gura

[AION]

Most people were not thinking in the first place. AI exposed the human condition.  I think AI will cause a lot of suffering which will cause people to start thinking or in the bad case go into addiction (because they don’t want to think) which will cause suffering too. Personally I think AI is a needed disruptor. Today I was at KFC and I was thinking about the mundane soul sucking tasks these workers had to do. AI taking over their jobs would be a blessing in the sky. But the thing is most people wouldn’t know what to do as a free man or women. I think most people would prefer wage slavery than freedom because individuation is a pain in the ass. There will come a time that Leo’s job will be obsolete too. Currently AI is not good enough to write good books but seeing the AI’s progress is scary. Singularity will be insane and exciting at the same time. Personally I’m so fed up with most human bullshit that I wouldn’t mind. 

Edited June 30 by AION

[AION]

Personally I think in 60-80 years people will have the option to choose between a biological body or mechanical body or perhaps a mix of both. That would be an interesting dilemma. As a spiritual person one isn’t identified with the biological body, but I think it is still a difficult choice. These fundamental things will have a paradigm shift: mating/dating, procreation, survival, how we look at dna, work, friendships and so on. 

[Someone here]

@AION there will be free AI porn as well. So I'm not worried. 😂 

[AION]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

@AION there will be free AI porn as well. So I'm not worried. 😂 

I will be traveling the galaxy with my AI top model harem🫠

Edited June 30 by AION

[Lucasxp64]

11 hours ago, AION said:

Personally I think in 60-80 years people will have the option to choose between a biological body or mechanical body or perhaps a mix of both. That would be an interesting dilemma. As a spiritual person one isn’t identified with the biological body, but I think it is still a difficult choice. These fundamental things will have a paradigm shift: mating/dating, procreation, survival, how we look at dna, work, friendships and so on. 

I don't have any issues with becoming a literally semi-immortal being through mind-uploading. But the consequences for society will be radical. Imagine the backwards savages of a couple of centuries ago still alive? Those guys would slow down the ego's development of society even worst.

And imagine the consequences for the sexual market? You can have billionaires with hundreds of different bodies connected as a hive mind having sex with even more biological woman?

Imagine the consequences for the sexual market.

Maybe it would be positive if everyone had access, and everybody would be extremely physically attractive.

Edited June 30 by Lucasxp64

[AION]

@Lucasxp64 most of our time goes to eating and sleeping and those other things you mentioned. When you have a mechanical body you don’t need to sleep or eat. It will give true freedom of the body. Not the fake freedom aka people who say they transcended survival but are still busy with sleeping and eating and fucking most of the time. 

[OBEler]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I am sorry you believe that.

AI hasn't even begun yet and people have already stopped thinking.

its easy if you have a plan. Of course not give Chatgpt4 link to your blog posts and say make a book out of it, lol.

You need to prepare the data first and do some pre categorization and some cleaning. Then summarize each category with the help of ai. And then overall some overwriting so that everything fits together.

And of course not using Chatgpt4 it's too weak for that, Google Gemini is way more powerful.

Edited June 30 by OBEler

[Aether Phoenix]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

its easy if you have a plan. Of course not give Chatgpt4 link to your blog posts and say make a book out of it, lol.

You need to prepare the data first and do some pre categorization and some cleaning. Then summarize each category with the help of ai. And then overall some overwriting so that everything fits together.

And of course not using Chatgpt4 it's too weak for that, Google Gemini is way more powerful.

This is the book—Leo’s sacred Grail. Let it remain pure, untouched by noise or some stupid AI 😁