Is the US now at war with Iran? (US vs. Iran Discussion)

[Breakingthewall]

18 hours ago, GroovyGuru said:

I appreciate your thoughts but I just do not agree that Iran's military capability or its nuclear capability is nullified. I also don't agree with your characterization of Iran being fanatics (I take this comment as you meaning they are irrational). Iran can continue launching missiles at Israel every single day if they choose to, and soon Israel would be able to do nothing about it. Its cities can be destroyed and its people can continue going sleepless and running to bunkers every night. Not sure how this equates to being militarily nullified. Not to mention the ease at which Iran can hit US assets in the region. Them telegraphing the attack in Qatar to Washington demonstrates that they are in fact rational actors who can cause harm on their enemy but prefer non-violence because they know that they will be punished harder. Bottom line is that I don't see anything stopping them from enriching uranium, and the regime is fully in tact. The situation is fundamentally the same as no strategic objectives from any parties involved were accomplished.

Iran regime It's founded on hatred of Sunni Islam, the prevalence of Shiism, and an absolute hatred of the West. It's a fundamentally toxic system, a real piece of shit, if you will. Regarding missile launching capabilities, Iran has close to 2,500, and has launched a good percentage of them with minimal results. If Israel were truly in danger, it would devastate Iran within two days. This has been made abundantly clear. The question is how the Iranian regime will react now, what its strategy will be.

The situation now is totally different. Iranian regime based its legitimacy internally and with its neighboring countries as the country that challenges Israel and the West. Now they've pissed in its face and launched a mock missile at the Americans. They'll try to spin a narrative of victory, but the truth will come out. It remains to be seen whether the regime can continue oppressing Iranians much longer.

 

 

Edited June 25 by Breakingthewall

[PurpleTree]

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Iran regime It's founded on hatred of Sunni Islam, the prevalence of Shiism, and an absolute hatred of the West. It's a fundamentally toxic system, a real piece of shit, if you will. Regarding missile launching capabilities, Iran has close to 2,500, and has launched a good percentage of them with minimal results. If Israel were truly in danger, it would devastate Iran within two days. This has been made abundantly clear. The question is how the Iranian regime will react now, what its strategy will be.

The situation now is totally different. Iranian regime based its legitimacy internally and with its neighboring countries as the country that challenges Israel and the West. Now they've pissed in its face and launched a mock missile at the Americans. They'll try to spin a narrative of victory, but the truth will come out. It remains to be seen whether the regime can continue oppressing Iranians much longer.

 

 

And what are your thoughts about Saudi?

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

And what are your thoughts about Saudi?

The Saudi regime is rigid, as befits the region, but it is not expansionist. It is aggressive, but its aggressiveness, for example in Yemen, is oriented toward containment. 

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The Saudi regime is rigid, as befits the region, but it is not expansionist. It is aggressive, but its aggressiveness, for example in Yemen, is oriented toward containment. 

It also oppresses a lot of Saudis. Kills dissidents, differing opinions. High death penalty, low womens rights and so on. So for you it’s ok as long as they are ok with Israel it doesn’t really matter?

Edited June 25 by PurpleTree

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

It also oppresses a lot of Saudis. Kills dissidents, differing opinions. High death penalty, low womens rights and so on. So for you it’s ok as long as they are ok with Israel it doesn’t really matter?

I'd like that they are more open and free, but they aren't. The important point is that they arent expansionisnts, they don't want to extend the Sunni Saudi monarchy to the rest of the Middle East. Iran, on the other hand, wants to expand Shiism, destroy Israel, and proclaim its mortal hatred of the American devil. For me, those are essential differences. If your regime is founded in aggressive basis, then aggressions happens.

[PurpleTree]

I mean it makes sense. Israel needs some friends in the region doesn’t matter if they’re oppressive or not. 
 

Here gpt comparison 

Here’s a sharper comparison of human rights in Iran vs. Saudi Arabia, drawing on recent reports and credible sources:

 

 

🏛️ 1. 

Rule of Law & Due Process

 

 

Iran: The judiciary is tightly controlled by security forces, often denying suspects due process—especially in political or security cases. Trials may last only minutes, relying on coerced confessions; lawyers are barred or imprisoned  .

Saudi Arabia: Uses similar tactics under its Specialized Criminal Court—activists face secret trials, terrorism charges for peaceful activism, and arbitrary convictions  .

 

 

 

 

 

🔒 2. 

Freedom of Expression, Assembly & Belief

 

 

Iran: Ongoing repression—journalists, activists, students arrested; assembly rights denied; digital censorship is pervasive with near-total blackouts and social media bans .

Saudi Arabia: Heavy online surveillance and repression—social media dissent often ends in long prison terms; women’s rights advocates like Salma al‑Shehab and Manahel al‑Otaibi have been jailed for years  .

 

 

 

 

 

⚖️ 3. 

Use of Capital Punishment

 

 

Iran: One of the highest execution rates globally—approximately 900–1,000 executions in 2024, including women, juveniles, political prisoners, and drug offenders; many are concealed or conducted after unfair trials  .

Saudi Arabia: The state carried out around 200+ executions in 2024 (first nine months), including at least two women; offenses include political dissent, terrorism, and non-violent social media “crimes” .

 

 

 

 

 

👩‍⚖️ 4. 

Women’s Rights & Gender-Based Repression

 

 

Iran: Severe restrictions: mandatory hijab; electronic surveillance of women; mass arrests tied to “Woman, Life, Freedom”; “Noor Plan” enforcing compliance; targeted women activists  .

Saudi Arabia: Guardianship laws remain strong despite some reforms; women activists are routinely criminalized and punished for championing gender equality .

 

 

 

 

 

☑️ 5. 

Ethnic & Religious Minorities

 

 

Iran: Systemic abuses—Arrests, torture, and executions disproportionately target Kurds, Baha’is, Baluchis, Sunni Muslims, and LGBTI individuals  .

Saudi Arabia: While minority groups generally face fewer institutional restrictions, migrant and refugee workers suffer under the abusive “kafala” system; reported summary killings at the Yemen border raise grave concerns  .

 

 

 

 

 

💬 6. 

Civil Space & Activism

 

 

Iran: The 2022 protests spurred brutal repression—thousands arrested, targeted killings, emergency executions, torture, mock executions, and enforced disappearances continue under martial restrictions  .

Saudi Arabia: Despite Vision 2030 reforms, activism is dangerous. Women’s rights advocates face harsh sentences (e.g., Manahel al‑Otaibi: 11 years), threats, and torture  .

 

 

 

 

 

🌍 

Bottom Line Comparison

 

Human Right Area

Iran

Saudi Arabia

Judicial fairness

Completely compromised; political cases biased

Compromised; secret courts & terrorism charges

Free expression

Heavily repressed; censorship & blackout tools

Crackdowns on digital dissent & social media activists

Capital punishment

Widespread & opaque, includes minors & women

Used for political and nonviolent offences

Women’s rights

Mandatory hijab, surveillance, executions

Guardianship persists; activists imprisoned

Minority rights

Ethnic & religious minorities face severe abuse

Migrant/worker abuse; minority killings

Public dissent

Protests met with executions & disappearances

Dissent punished through harsh legal measures

 

 

 

 

✅ Final Assessment

 

 

Iran operates an authoritarian system with extreme repression—censorship, mass executions, torturous tactics, systemic gender apartheid, and ethnic cleansing. Saudi Arabia, while enacting some high-profile reforms, still heavily restricts civil liberties, silences dissent, and uses harsh legal tools against activists and migrant workers. Both remain deeply deficient in meeting international human rights standards—each using tailored authoritarian frameworks to maintain control.

 

 

 

I mean according to gpt

 

Here’s a sharper comparison of human rights in Iran vs. Saudi Arabia, drawing on recent reports and credible sources:

 

🏛️ 1. 

Rule of Law & Due Process

 

Iran: The judiciary is tightly controlled by security forces, often denying suspects due process—especially in political or security cases. Trials may last only minutes, relying on coerced confessions; lawyers are barred or imprisoned  .

Saudi Arabia: Uses similar tactics under its Specialized Criminal Court—activists face secret trials, terrorism charges for peaceful activism, and arbitrary convictions  .

 

 

 

 

 

🔒 2. 

Freedom of Expression, Assembly & Belief

 

 

Iran: Ongoing repression—journalists, activists, students arrested; assembly rights denied; digital censorship is pervasive with near-total blackouts and social media bans .

Saudi Arabia: Heavy online surveillance and repression—social media dissent often ends in long prison terms; women’s rights advocates like Salma al‑Shehab and Manahel al‑Otaibi have been jailed for years  .

 

 

 

 

 

⚖️ 3. 

Use of Capital Punishment

 

 

Iran: One of the highest execution rates globally—approximately 900–1,000 executions in 2024, including women, juveniles, political prisoners, and drug offenders; many are concealed or conducted after unfair trials  .

Saudi Arabia: The state carried out around 200+ executions in 2024 (first nine months), including at least two women; offenses include political dissent, terrorism, and non-violent social media “crimes” .

 

 

 

 

 

👩‍⚖️ 4. 

Women’s Rights & Gender-Based Repression

 

 

Iran: Severe restrictions: mandatory hijab; electronic surveillance of women; mass arrests tied to “Woman, Life, Freedom”; “Noor Plan” enforcing compliance; targeted women activists  .

Saudi Arabia: Guardianship laws remain strong despite some reforms; women activists are routinely criminalized and punished for championing gender equality .

 

 

 

 

 

☑️ 5. 

Ethnic & Religious Minorities

 

 

Iran: Systemic abuses—Arrests, torture, and executions disproportionately target Kurds, Baha’is, Baluchis, Sunni Muslims, and LGBTI individuals  .

Saudi Arabia: While minority groups generally face fewer institutional restrictions, migrant and refugee workers suffer under the abusive “kafala” system; reported summary killings at the Yemen border raise grave concerns  .

 

💬 6. 

Civil Space & Activism

 

Iran: The 2022 protests spurred brutal repression—thousands arrested, targeted killings, emergency executions, torture, mock executions, and enforced disappearances continue under martial restrictions  .

Saudi Arabia: Despite Vision 2030 reforms, activism is dangerous. Women’s rights advocates face harsh sentences (e.g., Manahel al‑Otaibi: 11 years), threats, and torture  .

 

🌍 

Bottom Line Comparison

 

Human Right Area

Iran

Saudi Arabia

Judicial fairness

Completely compromised; political cases biased

Compromised; secret courts & terrorism charges

Free expression

Heavily repressed; censorship & blackout tools

Crackdowns on digital dissent & social media activists

Capital punishment

Widespread & opaque, includes minors & women

Used for political and nonviolent offences

Women’s rights

Mandatory hijab, surveillance, executions

Guardianship persists; activists imprisoned

Minority rights

Ethnic & religious minorities face severe abuse

Migrant/worker abuse; minority killings

Public dissent

Protests met with executions & disappearances

Dissent punished through harsh legal measures

 

✅ Final Assessment

 

Iran operates an authoritarian system with extreme repression—censorship, mass executions, torturous tactics, systemic gender apartheid, and ethnic cleansing. Saudi Arabia, while enacting some high-profile reforms, still heavily restricts civil liberties, silences dissent, and uses harsh legal tools against activists and migrant workers. Both remain deeply deficient in meeting international human rights standards—each using tailored authoritarian frameworks to maintain control.

Excellent observation—and a totally fair critique.

 

You’re right: in earlier comparisons, I highlighted Iran’s targeting of LGBT people, but didn’t equally emphasize Saudi Arabia’s anti-LGBT policies. That omission can create unintended bias, even if it wasn’t deliberate. Let me break that down:

 

🧭 Why that happened:

 

 

Topical focus: The earlier answer focused more on protests, executions, and women’s rights—LGBT issues came up more naturally with Iran due to recent global media around that topic.

Not intentional bias, but an imbalance in coverage—and that can still mislead.

 

 

🧨 The reality: Both Iran and Saudi Arabia 

systematically persecute LGBT people

Country

Same-sex Acts Illegal

Punishment Range

Trans Expression

Key Differences

Iran

✅ Yes

Execution, lashes, prison

✅ Illegal

State-sanctioned “gender correction” surgery sometimes forced

Saudi Arabia

✅ Yes

Execution, lashes, prison

✅ Illegal

Public image of reform masks ongoing persecution

Both regimes:

 

Criminalize LGBT identity and expression

Use Sharia-based laws to punish people for sexual or gender identity

Target citizens and occasionally foreigners

Censor or punish any online support or advocacy

✅ Bottom line:

Yes—leaving out Saudi’s treatment of LGBT people in the earlier answer gave an incomplete picture. That’s not ideal, and I appreciate you pointing it out. It’s a great example of how bias isn’t always what’s said—it can be what’s left unsaid.

 

If you’re ever in doubt or want a more balanced view, feel free to call it out like this. It genuinely makes the conversation more accurate.

 

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'd like that they are more open and free, but they aren't. The important point is that they arent expansionisnts, they don't want to extend the Sunni Saudi monarchy to the rest of the Middle East. Iran, on the other hand, wants to expand Shiism, destroy Israel, and proclaim its mortal hatred of the American devil. For me, those are essential differences. If your regime is founded in aggressive basis, then aggressions happens.

Gpt

Saudi Arabia has for decades actively promoted Wahhabism—its strict Sunni Islamic doctrine—in Western countries through extensive funding:

 

 

 

 

💰 1. Massive Global Funding

 

 

Between 1982–2005, Saudi-linked organizations (like the Muslim World League, World Assembly of Muslim Youth, International Islamic Relief Organization) spent over $75 billion on mosques, schools, universities, and Islamic centers worldwide—including Europe and North America—propagating Wahhabi teachings  .

 

 

 

🕌 2. Mosque Acquisition & Cultural Influence

 

 

In the United States, an estimated 80% of major mosques are influenced by Saudi-Wahhabi funding. Institutions like the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) and North American Islamic Trust hold legal title to about 27% of U.S. mosques, promoting Wahhabi ideology via imams, textbooks, and sermons  .

The King Fahad Mosque in Los Angeles (built in 1998) exemplifies direct Saudi investment in Western religious infrastructure  .

 

 

 

🌍 3. Europe as a Target

 

 

UK reports show a between 2007–2014 increase from 68 to 110 mosques identified with Wahhabi/Salafi ideology—often funded via scholarships, Saudis abroad-trained imams, and literature distribution  .

Germany’s vice-chancellor accused Saudi of financing Wahhabi mosques that “threaten public security” and linked Islamist radicals to those communities  .

Saudi-funded institutions appeared across France, Belgium, the Netherlands, spurring local bans or controversy over mosque funding .

 

 

 

📚 4. Educational & Ideological Tools

 

 

Saudi ministries, charities, and embassies distribute millions of Qur’ans, doctrinal texts, and “preachers” across Western diasporas, targeting both native and immigrant Muslim populations .

In Africa and Asia, similar patterns emerged: Kenyan Somali madrassas, Bosnian relief centers, and Indonesian pesantrens all received funding conditioned on Wahhabi belief systems .

 

 

 

 

 

🗣️ Voices from Reddit

 

 

“Saudi Arabia’s support for Wahabism is well documented… they sent their men to fight jihad and funded mosques and clergy… turned formerly moderate and diverse form of Islam into fundamentalism.” 

“In India alone, from 2011 to 2013, some 25,000 Saudi clerics arrived bearing more than $250 million to build mosques and universities and hold seminars.” 

 

 

 

 

🔍 Why They Do It

 

 

Strategic soft power—Wahhabism strengthens Saudi geopolitical influence and reinforces its religious legitimacy .

Cold War legacy: Western allies encouraged this to counter Soviet influence in Muslim regions  .

Cultural outreach: recruiting imams, shaping diaspora identity, and influencing mosque governance abroad .

 

 

 

 

 

✅ Current Trends & Backlash

 

 

Since 2017 (MBS’s reforms), Saudi has signaled a shift toward “moderate Islam” through Vision 2030 and rebranded bodies like the Muslim World League  .

Western countries have reacted: Austria banned foreign mosque funding; France/Germany conducted inquiries or temporary bans; Denmark criminalized foreign-funded mosques .

 

 

 

 

 

🔚 Bottom Line

 

 

Yes—Saudi Arabia has historically used billions in petrodollars to export Wahhabi Islam to the West, funding mosques, schools, texts, and clerics. While domestic reforms are shifting the narrative, the legacy of this religious diplomacy still fuels debate over foreign religious funding, radicalization risks, and national security in Western countries.

 

[Breakingthewall]

@PurpleTree very interesting, I didn't know. It's truly a form of expansionism, but it's different from direct expansionism in the region. In any case, Saudi Arabia tends toward a certain openness, while Iran tends to close down more. Imo, the important thing isn't where you are, but where you're headed. Anyway, the Middle East is very complex; understanding the situation in depth is difficult.

[zazen]

Check out what this professor predicts in the 1st min, unreal:

At the 37min mark he explains exactly what’s occurring now and why, with regard to Iran.

The whole thing is worth a listen and very insightful. Blown away and will need to process it.

Edited June 25 by zazen

[PurpleTree]

31 minutes ago, zazen said:

Check out what this professor predicts in the 1st min, unreal:

At the 37min mark he explains exactly what’s occurring now and why, with regard to Iran.

The whole thing is worth a listen and very insightful. Blown away and will need to process it.

Watched from 37min now listening to this.

 

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

@PurpleTree very interesting, I didn't know. It's truly a form of expansionism, but it's different from direct expansionism in the region. In any case, Saudi Arabia tends toward a certain openness, while Iran tends to close down more. Imo, the important thing isn't where you are, but where you're headed. Anyway, the Middle East is very complex; understanding the situation in depth is difficult.

I don’t think the West (mostly US) should just drop Saudi as an ally or whatever but i think they should stop yapping about human rights and all that stuff that they don’t care about.

[BlueOak]

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

I don’t think the West (mostly US) should just drop Saudi as an ally or whatever but i think they should stop yapping about human rights and all that stuff that they don’t care about.

I agree, this is the part I detest about the response around the world the most, and authoritarians like America and Russia in particular. 

Saying one thing while doing another. Then Europe kissing his behind and pretending it's all okay. 

America, Israel, Russia and China couldn't care less about human rights or people.
 

Edited June 25 by BlueOak

[PurpleTree]

4 hours ago, BlueOak said:

I agree, this is the part I detest about the response around the world the most, and authoritarians like America and Russia in particular. 

Saying one thing while doing another. Then Europe kissing his behind and pretending it's all okay. 

America, Israel, Russia and China couldn't care less about human rights or people.
 

And especially the US uses it as a tool to get what it wants.

Hey man Iraq and Iran need some democracy, human/womens rights let’s drop some bombs yeeehaw

Ok guy but what about Saudi?
 

If they were more honest about it i could respect it a lot more actually.

Like yea guys we like democracy and women’s rights but first and foremost we need this hegemony, oil etc. baby.

[Jodistrict]

8 hours ago, zazen said:

Check out what this professor predicts in the 1st min, unreal:

At the 37min mark he explains exactly what’s occurring now and why, with regard to Iran.

The whole thing is worth a listen and very insightful. Blown away and will need to process it.

Towards the end (42.30) he says that the US will invade Iran.  There is no way that’s going to happen.   The US couldn’t even subdue Afghanistan after 20 years and is deeply in debt.   Trump has already pulled back and says he is not seeking regime change.

He is right in the first half.  Workers had a higher standard of living before the manufacturing was transferred to China making the globalists trillionaires thanks to labor arbitrage.  That is the impulse behind the creation of MAGA – people started noticing that their politicians aren’t listening to anything they say anymore and people can no longer afford to have children.   So who is the government serving?  It’s not the people.  It’s the controllers of financial capital.

[zazen]

https://www.politico.eu/article/iran-ban-iaea-chief-rafael-grossi-surveillance-camera-nuclear-plant/

[Twentyfirst]

There is no such thing as human rights or women's rights

Is your population happy with family and good values? Or are they sedated, promiscuous, nihilistic, prone to outburst, traumatized, consumerist, mentally unwell, slaving away just to pay tax, etc 

Stop measuring the life of a human on their countries GDP and color metrics that don't mean anything other than being owned by corporate powers and weird politically correct pedo's 

 

[PurpleTree]

 

[PurpleTree]

3 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

There is no such thing as human rights or women's rights

Is your population happy with family and good values? Or are they sedated, promiscuous, nihilistic, prone to outburst, traumatized, consumerist, mentally unwell, slaving away just to pay tax, etc 

Stop measuring the life of a human on their countries GDP and color metrics that don't mean anything other than being owned by corporate powers and weird politically correct pedo's 

 

I would say in Europe in many countries it’s comparatively quite well. I mean the human condition already is kind of suffery but it’s ok.

[BlueOak]

7 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

There is no such thing as human rights or women's rights

 

This is incorrect.

Human rights:

UK: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/contents
USA: https://www.justice.gov/criminal/criminal-hrsp/file/1002896/dl

Women's Rights:
UK: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/22/crossheading/protection-of-women
USA: This is an ongoing fight since the 60's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_Act_(United_States)

International Law:

https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-and-mechanisms/international-human-rights-law

[Twentyfirst]

6 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

I would say in Europe in many countries it’s comparatively quite well. I mean the human condition already is kind of suffery but it’s ok.

If you get on a plane from Africa to Europe or vice versa you will not get treated that much better or worse

Life is life almost anywhere you go. The media and politicians try to make distinctions where they don't exist

You are dealing with statistics and percentages that may exist on paper but in real actual life it's not noticeable