The fallacy of self help

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Not necessarily, only if you don't get lost in traps. Do you remember when you did 5meo DMT right? If you vape 25 mg, there's usually a realization of infinity, and that translates to bliss, infinite love, etc. That bliss is simply the absence of barriers; it's not a thing; it's an absence. It's the taste of limitless . You recognize it as your nature; it opens your mind and fills your heart.

Obviously, if that's your nature, you don't need 5meo to open yourself to it. You just need to stare your barriers in the face again and again until, millimeter by millimeter, they begin to fall. But you can't fool yourself with stories, God, etc., because if you do, you'll be trapped. 

 

Is my nature, is just that I need some time to stabilize myself in that because it entails a certain maturity of consciousness. The preparation to look at the void in the eyes takes time, there is a lot of game of hide and seek, but is the only joy, the other option is being a slave, in one's little world, in a box, closed, comfortable but small, painfully limited. Openness means looking at the fear in the eyes, it takes time to see one is really ready for it

Edited Saturday at 01:41 PM by Javfly33

[Lucasxp64]

Quote

Ai Summary:

The provided text, originating from a YouTube video titled "What Non-Duality/Neo-Advaita Teachers Won't Tell You" on the "Off Grid Mind" channel, examines the concepts of being a "witness" versus an "actor" as presented in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. The speaker highlights a perceived shortcoming in certain non-duality and Neo-Advaita teachings, arguing that they exclusively promote the idea of being a detached witness, thereby negating personal responsibility. The text emphasises that distinguishing between these two states, and subsequently choosing one, necessitates consistent meditation and brain training, a crucial element the speaker believes is often withheld by these teachers to foster dependency. Ultimately, the video asserts that daily meditation is indispensable for achieving the ability to discern and operate as either the witness or the actor.

 

[Breakingthewall]

50 minutes ago, Lucasxp64 said:

 

Neo-Advaita is seductive because it tells you that you are creating your negative feelings, so you simply have to realize this and stop having them. You have the power to feel whatever you want. Oh, by the way, there is no "you," it's an illusion. So I am consciousness since everything is consciousness, so the things that appear are consciousness. How so? So conciousness has forms, like elephants and things like that? No, they are just illusions of consciousness; they don't really exist. And why are they there? Because consciousness plays with itself to explore itself. To explore what  if it is consciousness, and besides, there is no self that wants anything? You have to awake to realize it. My neighbor realized that extraterrestrials are sending him to do evil, and now he's on medication. No, that realization is false; the one from consciousness is the true one. Oh, okay, I get it.

Edited Saturday at 04:08 PM by Breakingthewall

[Salariatu]

The first frase you mentioned is not true. Individuals suffer mainly because they are trapped in the society ego consciousness and at a subconscious level they identified themselves with that mass ego. 

So here you have it, the root of all suffering. Escape that and you awaken.

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Salariatu said:

The first frase you mentioned is not true. Individuals suffer mainly because they are trapped in the society ego consciousness and at a subconscious level they identified themselves with that mass ego. 

So here you have it, the root of all suffering. Escape that and you awaken.

That not so simple. First, the social ego is a reality that arises from the synergy of human genetics and contact with the environment over millennia. You are not just an individual, you are also a hive being. Everything your mind produces is hive processing. Without the hive, you would be a larva incapable of surviving even a day.  The ego mind is real, not an idea. It's an energetic structure as real as the body, with enormous power. 

Second: There are lonely people who have absolutely no interest in others, no reading, companionship, or contact, and are in a closed state. Loneliness is no different from companionship in terms of openness; reality is reality; neither is more real than the other. Both the collective ego and loneliness are reality. Attachment can arise in both realities. You can have attachment to your human life even if you are outside the collective matrix. In order to let go of your life, you must be open to the whole. You cannot stop having attachment to your life by an act of will.

There are natural mystics, like Ramana Maharsi, who have no attachment to the collective ego, since their nature is spontaneous openness. Within them, a series of circumstances culminate in that point. But if that's not the case in your case, your path will be different.

Let's see, what you're looking for is the breaking of the structural limits of your mind and opening it to the limitlessness that you are. There are people who have done years of retreats in absolute solitude, and that hasn't happened. They've remained within their structure, having closed, relative realizations. Openness is absolute; it's not relative to anything. Whether this happens doesn't depend on solitude. There's no essential difference between solitude and being surrounded by people; both are reality. Openness requires an open heart and a transgressive mind that breaks down structures until none remain.

Edited Sunday at 12:27 AM by Breakingthewall

[theleelajoker]

8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

That not so simple. First, the social ego is a reality that arises from the synergy of human genetics and contact with the environment over millennia. You are not just an individual, you are also a hive being. Everything your mind produces is hive processing. Without the hive, you would be a larva incapable of surviving even a day.  The ego mind is real, not an idea. It's an energetic structure as real as the body, with enormous power. 

Second: There are lonely people who have absolutely no interest in others, no reading, companionship, or contact, and are in a closed state. Loneliness is no different from companionship in terms of openness; reality is reality; neither is more real than the other. Both the collective ego and loneliness are reality. Attachment can arise in both realities. You can have attachment to your human life even if you are outside the collective matrix. In order to let go of your life, you must be open to the whole. You cannot stop having attachment to your life by an act of will.

There are natural mystics, like Ramana Maharsi, who have no attachment to the collective ego, since their nature is spontaneous openness. Within them, a series of circumstances culminate in that point. But if that's not the case in your case, your path will be different.

Let's see, what you're looking for is the breaking of the structural limits of your mind and opening it to the limitlessness that you are. There are people who have done years of retreats in absolute solitude, and that hasn't happened. They've remained within their structure, having closed, relative realizations. Openness is absolute; it's not relative to anything. Whether this happens doesn't depend on solitude. There's no essential difference between solitude and being surrounded by people; both are reality. Openness requires an open heart and a transgressive mind that breaks down structures until none remain.

+1. Fits with my current experience of life 

Don't have a opinion of whatever you said re Maharsi. Never met this guy in person so I don't know what he experienced, how he acted etc. Projections can easily happen. 

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

+1. Fits with my current experience of life 

Don't have a opinion of whatever you said re Maharsi. Never met this guy in person so I don't know what he experienced, how he acted etc. Projections can easily happen. 

 

 

Well, you're right, it's a projection based on what I read about him. I've been reading about people who've been in absolute solitude for years, and it seems that Maharshi really was someone with a truly spontaneous openness. Others don't, for example. Tenzin palmo was 12 years in a cave and if you read her realization after that period seem limited. In the case or maharsi id said almost sure he's open to the unlimited but he's by default, or very easily, a natural phenomenon, then his explanation about how doing it seems quite vague, his process is not extrapolable

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well, you're right, it's a projection based on what I read about him. I've been reading about people who've been in absolute solitude for years, and it seems that Maharshi really was someone with a truly spontaneous openness. Others don't, for example. Tenzin palmo was 12 years in a cave and if you read her realization after that period seem limited. In the case or maharsi id said almost sure he's open to the unlimited but he's by default, or very easily, a natural phenomenon, then his explanation about how doing it seems quite vague, his process is not extrapolable

Yeah I think this point is crucial: no matter how he was, what he experienced etc - he's different and everybody needs to find his/her own way. Looking outwards at others for orientation is great and helpful - but not to imitate, but to use that information to create your own way. Like cooking, great to look for recipes but everyone likes his meal different 

[Breakingthewall]

24 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

Yeah I think this point is crucial: no matter how he was, what he experienced etc - he's different and everybody needs to find his/her own way. Looking outwards at others for orientation is great and helpful - but not to imitate, but to use that information to create your own way. Like cooking, great to look for recipes but everyone likes his meal different 

The problem is that guys like Maharsi don't have an experience that can be extrapolated to normal people today. That neti neti thing isn't going to work for anyone except him, and current teachers like Ralston simply deny reality to place themselves in a forced flat experience that they call enlightenment. People believe them because they're suffering, and having a flat experience is seen as liberation.

Another example is Tolle, who claims that one day he woke up and his mind was free of egoic projection. It's hard to believe because egoic projection is a real structure, which is why it's so solid. It's not a mistake that it will disappear one day, since it would reappear very soon. Tolle's message leads you to deny your reality, and that will never work, otherwise traps you in a state where you are trying to deni a reality affirming that it isn't real

[UnbornTao]

@Breakingthewall You love to talk.

Edited Sunday at 11:19 AM by UnbornTao

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

@Breakingthewall You love to talk.

How is this in any way constructive?

At least tell say what could be done instead. "What about stop doing X and try Y instead"

Personally I am very happy that he's contributing to this forum and I learned a lot from his content no matter if I agree (often) or disagree (sometimes)

Simply the idea of "openness" as guideline for my life created a significant positive shift. Tanks for that @Breakingthewall

But:  your input is  sometimes very abstract and I would welcome more personal experience and less mental concepts. Helps me to understand and integrate the information you give 

Real life situation in which you acted, observed, responded etc etc.

That's also openness IMO

Edited Sunday at 12:49 PM by theleelajoker

[gettoefl]

2 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

@Breakingthewall You love to talk.

One of the few who has something worth communicating. Almost all here are lost. Thank god some take the work seriously.

[Jodistrict]

I have been looking into a course called Finders by Dr. Jeffrey A Martin.  He conducted a major international study on exploring “persistent non-symbolic experience” encompassing enlightenment, non duality and unitive consciousness.    

Dr. Martin’s research revealed  that any one technique doesn’t work for all people.  He recommends trying different techniques until you find the one that works for you.   Peter Ralston and Tolle may be genetic freaks, but that doesn’t mean their technique will work for you.  If Ralston’s technique doesn’t work for you then don’t waste time.  Find something else.  Also some of us need deconditioning, like trauma therapy, because the trauma blocks you from growing spiritually – psychology and spiritual growth are connected.  You can’t separate them.  You can meditate all you want and it won’t help you.  It is just a waste of time.  I have been meditating for 20 years. 

The Finders by Dr. Jeffery A Martin.

Another book I have just begun to read is “Consciousness and the Unbound Body” by Judith Blackstone.  She goes into the connection between Trauma and awakening.

[Breakingthewall]

Thanks for your appreciation. About meditation the problem use to be the search for the positive: for universal love, God, peace, ego dissolution, kindness, and so on. But real meditation is the opening to what is. It is not about the absence of thought or mental noise, but about a true opening to your fear, your need for control , assuming these exist, as they usually do.

By seeing them clearly and facing them, you prevent them from closing your perception, from making it bounce off those inner walls. Only then can the unlimited nature of reality manifest, along with its vital relational movement , its inevitable unfolding toward greater connection, complexity, and expansion, the flow that's happening always . 

 

Edited Sunday at 07:17 PM by Breakingthewall

[theleelajoker]

14 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Thanks for your appreciation. About meditation the problem use to be the search for the positive: for universal love, God, peace, ego dissolution, kindness, and so on. But real meditation is the opening to what is. It is not about the absence of thought or mental noise, but about a true opening to your fear, your need for control , assuming these exist, as they usually do . 

It's crazy, I'm reading this and I see this in people all the time: looking for positive, avoiding everything that does not feel light, scared of just feeling what is.

It's like people on the one hand silently scream for integration of these "negative" feelings. The body creates blockages, pain, density in the psychic structure that make your life super hard. Even when talking, people's language seems for me to be full of hints, asking for these tensions to be released. But on the other hand, as soon as these feelings are approached, when the opening takes place, the reaction is typically aggression (typical male reaction, "you suck") or retreat (women, "I want good vibes")

Of course I have this too, this avoidance. But it's getting much better. So it's like you describe, seems we have to go the path inch by inch. 

For instance I don't care anymore about crying. I cry in public, with friends around, I cry on dates if it happens. Last time I did it seemed to help other people to allow their sadness as well which gives me evidence for the silent screams I believe to observe 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

people all the time: looking for positive, avoiding everything that does not feel light, scared of just feeling what is.

If people were honest with themselves, they would see that almost everything they do is a defense mechanism driven by fear, that the fact that they were born is due to the fear of their parents, the social pact to survive, and that underneath that is a strange, empty nihilism that they cannot understand, and that they are acting like automatons driven by genetic impulses that have the function of perpetuating the species for no reason beyond that.

At a given moment, they would see themselves floating in the absolute emptiness, without any meaning, distinction, or destiny. So instead, they grab onto handholds that the mind creates to keep moving forward. If you want to get deep in mysticism, aka reality, you should go through that nihilism. It's not something that anyone would do without a real reason 

 

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

The body creates blockages, pain, density in the psychic structure that make your life super hard.

When you're a child, your genetic programming makes you perceive rejection as death. You must fit into the social machine. You must be loved by your parents. Your parents have usually created avoidance structures so they don't collapse and can move forward. A child unconsciously perceives these and, in turn, creates structures that fit with their parents' to maintain functionality. Collapse is the last thing that can happen, and facing rejection directly is extremely hard, harder than being in Gaza during a bombing raid with people dying around you.

Everyone creates closing structures inherited from generations. The human matrix functions adaptively, finding the most efficient way to develop its potential, like any other living organism.

Edited Monday at 10:57 AM by Breakingthewall

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

If people were honest with themselves, they would see that almost everything they do is a defense mechanism driven by fear, that the fact that they were born is due to the fear of their parents, the social pact to survive, and that underneath that is a strange, empty nihilism that they cannot understand, and that they are acting like automatons driven by genetic impulses that have the function of perpetuating the species for no reason beyond that.

At a given moment, they would see themselves floating in the absolute emptiness, without any meaning, distinction, or destiny. So instead, they grab onto handholds that the mind creates to keep moving forward. If you want to get deep in mysticism, aka reality, you should go through that nihilism. It's not something that anyone would do without a real reason

Yes. Exactly my experience. And the subconsious knows this. You can hide it as deep as you want, but you always know. So there is a constant tension, a fragmentation of "I want to continue this existence" and "I want to end this existence".

Last night I got a drunk because of this emptyness and nihilism, simple desperation out of experiencing the world as you described above. Went to a bar alone, met some very nice and friendly people. They tried to talk me out of desperation - "go make what interests you, go have fun, go meet another girl, go do this and that hobby, live in the moment" etc. And I appreciate their intention, they REALLY made an effort, invested time and energy to cheer me up. But I did not want to be cheered up. I could not be cheered up. I cannot NOT feel this... emptyness, this going in circles, this feeling of "this is going nowhere", this can't you see how fucked up this is? Can't you see what you are hiding? Can't you see how you fight yourself, hurting yourself, hurting others by ignoring what is?"  At the end I just said to the others "just tell me you feel it, too. Just say that you know what I am talking about" 

Quote

 

When you're a child, your genetic programming makes you perceive rejection as death. You must fit into the social machine. You must be loved by your parents. Your parents have usually created avoidance structures so they don't collapse and can move forward. A child unconsciously perceives these and, in turn, creates structures that fit with their parents' to maintain functionality. Collapse is the last thing that can happen, and facing rejection directly is extremely hard, harder than being in Gaza during a bombing raid with people dying around you.

YES that "unconsiously perceiving and creating" of structures, that's the thing. For me, once I have started to see it, it's everywhere. 

Quote

Everyone creates closing structures inherited from generations. The human matrix functions adaptively, finding the most efficient way to develop its potential, like any other living organism.

@BreakingthewallLet's assume that your therory about the human matrix is correct (which, as of now, I believe to be the case). My conclusions, which are in large parts also based on your previous content,  are as of now: 

• "Reality" creates - trough suffering, which creates pressure to adapt - more individuals that feel and see these parts of reality that are not yet fully integrated
• There is a hope, a chance that evolution might create something "better" through this process
• But there seems to be a problem that might (?) be unsolvable:
  • To experience reality, you need movement, relation between people, things (I took that from you  )
  • This experience creates a separation, or at least a feeling of separation, Something other than wholesomeness and unity
  • Reality is then infinitely creating reflections that appear as other in our personal experience
  • And this separation is neccessary. Because, otherwise: How to know how to live, how to create, what to do with life? You can't do it alone. You NEED a reflection, because you cannot see yourself with your own eye, you cannot see and experience yourself without a mirror reflection. You know this experience of standing in front of your friend, partner, family etc and having this feeling of "CAN'T YOU SEE WHAT YOU ARE DOING? CAN'T YOU SEE THAT WHAT YOU WANT IS NOT WHAT YOU NEED? CAN'T YOU SEE YOU ARE HURTING YOURSELF ?HURTING OTHERS? CAN YOU REALLY NOT SEE THIS? IT'S SO OBVIOUS, JUST LOOK! I have this feeling all the fucking time and others have this with me, as well
  • As long as there is this separation, nobody feels whole, nobody feels complete. You are always missing SOMETHING, no matter how hard you try. The longing for true connection, for unity is incredibly strong
  • So people tell you "go be happy on your own" - but you CANNOT BE COMPLETELY ALONE AND EXPERIENCE YOURSELF at the same time
  • But you also cannot live in duality, because the longing for unity, the desire to be whole again feels incredibly shitty
  • But YOU ALSO can't be alone, because then you can't experience yourself. Live. Die. Repeat. Dead end. Game over. 
  • In the bar interaction yesterday, one of the women at the very end - after me pushing her again and again to look at existence itself - said: "I believe we failed a species. I wish I could go back and undo the big bang, but it's not possible to go back. So we have to make the best of what is"
  • Now some speculation: So maybe the "universe, reality, existence" created this reality in an attempt of hope to solve this aporia, this dilemma of separation (existence, experience) and unity (non-existence, non-experience) But it's not working. So what do we do? We slowly kill our world. Climate change, cancer, alcohol, war, drugs...
  • So what's the hope? The hope that there is SOME WAY that can be found to solve this dilemma. And to go full circle, the mechanism for this hope seems to be suffering. This is not good, keep on going, keep on trying, wake up, change, change, change, feel the pain, you need to try something else, move further forward because there is no other choice but to keep trying. I am sorry I created this realiy, I had no other choice, but I can't undo it.
  • Please say Hello to Sisyphos. The boulder just rolled down the mountain. Tell him to give me a call once he finished the job

Curious if that makes sense, let me know where you feel like my mind went of the rails 

Edited Monday at 12:29 PM by theleelajoker

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

• So what's the hope? The hope that there is SOME WAY that can be found to solve this dilemma. And to go full circle, the mechanism for this hope seems to be suffering. This is not good, keep on going, keep on trying, wake up, change, change, change, feel the pain, you need to try something else, move further forward because there is no other choice but to keep trying. I am sorry I created this realiy, I had no other choice, but I can't undo it.
• Please say Hello to Sisyphos. The boulder just rolled down the mountain. Tell him to give me a call once he finished the job

It's quite simple because at a certain point there's no other option: you have to break down the barriers within you, until none remain, and then feel the connection with the flow of reality, be the flow. You already are, but the barriers that inevitably form in the psyche split you and place you in a default state of lack that must be filled, which is impossible. 

Humanity is not something flawed or incomplete that must reach a point of completeness; it is the living flow of reality expanding into infinite synchronous relationships. What we are is that open flow, and beyond the flow, what we are is the total, unlimited openness that inevitably manifests as any possibility.

If you want to escape Sisyphus's wheel, you must see with absolute clarity that existence is movement itself, open and inevitable, the manifestation of the reality. Then things remain the same, but from a broader perspective.

 

Edited Monday at 01:49 PM by Breakingthewall

[theleelajoker]

34 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's quite simple because at a certain point there's no other option: you have to break down the barriers within you, until none remain, and then feel the connection with the flow of reality, be the flow. You already are, but the barriers that inevitably form in the psyche split you and place you in a default state of lack that must be filled, which is impossible. 

Humanity is not something flawed or incomplete that must reach a point of completeness; it is the living flow of reality expanding into infinite synchronous relationships. What we are is that open flow, and beyond the flow, what we are is the total, unlimited openness that inevitably manifests as any possibility.

If you want to escape Sisyphus's wheel, you must see with absolute clarity that existence is movement itself, open and inevitable, the manifestation of the reality. Then things remain the same, but from a broader perspective.

 

 

Do you SAY this based on mental concepts or do you FEEL the openness?

If the latter, are there ups and downs or is it constant feeling?

[James123]

On 6/22/2025 at 4:05 PM, Breakingthewall said:

No, it's something that anyone could realize if they break their limitations . 

What you are is total reality, and total reality is the absence of limits. The absence of limits inevitably results in totality. This is something that you, as total reality, can see, perceive, and understand with absolute clarity.

Then you then articulate this through the logic of language. Logic is the structure of reality. There is no difference between the logic of the mind and the logic of reality. A mind aligned with reality can understand its logic clearly because it is the reality and then articulate this logic through language 

It is very unbelievable, how the one can truly stuck with them experiences.