Can a Truth-Based Movement Still Win in a Captured Media & Epistemic Environment?

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

I think us Europeans don't realize how good we have it! I think if an European, who lived all his life in Europe, would be dropped into the USA to live for a year, he would have the exact same experience as that of someone trying to survive solo in the African jungle. 😂

I think for Business the US is better. Few days ago I overheard a conversation by a few Europeans about how they are going to the US and going to make money money baby 🤑 as making money is better in the US.

[Daniel Balan]

I think the MAGA Americans on twitter are right when calling the centrists of Europe far left when viewed from the American perspective. Here on Europe we have basically nothing to complain about. There isn't a place on earth where life is more easy than in Europe. We should be very grateful for what we have and stop whining! 

[Daniel Balan]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

I think for Business the US is better. Few days ago I overheard a conversation by a few Europeans about how they are going to the US and going to make money money baby 🤑 as making money is better in the US.

Probably this is true! I don't know! But for the average blue collar worker, Europe is the best place on earth to live.

[Daniel Balan]

I think the left greatly overestimates the development levels of mankind! In retrospective, analysing more carefuly human behaviour and devilry, it is quite the miracle we have such a well functioning welfare state in Europe! It is quite ingenious! We are standing on the shoulders of giants and we don't even appreciate it how bad life is for 3 quarters of mankind! It was only 80 years ago when Europe was a living hell! We have come such a long way! We should be very grateful for everything we have! It could very well change for the worse any time! I generally believe that we are much closer to repeating the nazi era than towards progressive utopia!

[Apparition of Jack]

3 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

I think for Business the US is better. Few days ago I overheard a conversation by a few Europeans about how they are going to the US and going to make money money baby 🤑 as making money is better in the US.

I’ve always hated this. I’ve never understood the desire to make as much money as possible, especially if it comes at the cost of relationships / culture / family / etc.

Ive known so many people in my life who’ve galavanted across the world just so they can find somewhere with more favourable tax laws, as if collective ethos, friends/family, culture, sustainability etc don’t matter at all. I feel like if I were to move somewhere, it would only be because I truly want to move to a new culture and not just because I want to earn an extra $50,000 over a few years or whatever. 
 

I think this addiction to money is at the root of most modern social malaise to be honest. Money is important but it’s just one out of countless factors that make life worth living. In our pursuit of pure profits we’ve sacrificed connection, community, art, healing, authenticity, etc. This world isn’t just some place to exploit so you can make marginally more cash before dying.

 

EDIT: America might be one of the best places in the world to “do business” but at what cost? Grind culture and work hours are insane there compared to anywhere else. Healthcare is tied to your employer so if you get fired or they go under, you’re fucked if you get serious medical problems. American civil society has been rotted from the inside out so you’ll have to avoid entire suburbs / towns / regions because they’re so poor and crime-ridden. The people are extremely wound up and neurotic and the constant low-level paranoia of things like shootings causes people to shut off and stick to their own cliques. And really all there is to do is grind and get shitfaced every weekend.

 It’s really only a good place if you’re some amoral workaholic who cares not for human connection, art, creativity etc. If you’re prepared to earn lots of money so you can afford a person fortress so “the poors” won’t bother you with their crippling debt and lack of healthcare, go for it. But for people wanting something more grounded and tangible, there are much better places to live.

America isn’t really a country, it’s more like a corporate zone with a few sports bars.

Edited June 15 by Apparition of Jack

[nerdspeak]

Business for the most part is about buying labor for x and selling it at a markup of 1.5x or 2x. Even tech is basically arbitraging software development hours. 

So yes, the US, where labor is kept cheap, is better for this, since base costs are lower. 

I’m from the US and moved to Belgium years ago, and my drive to make money at all costs is basically gone. Of course I still work, but only on things I want to do. 

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, nerdspeak said:

Business for the most part is about buying labor for x and selling it at a markup of 1.5x or 2x. Even tech is basically arbitraging software development hours. 

So yes, the US, where labor is kept cheap, is better for this, since base costs are lower. 

I’m from the US and moved to Belgium years ago, and my drive to make money at all costs is basically gone. Of course I still work, but only on things I want to do. 

You enjoy those Belgian waffles hey? Moules frittes you know what i mean.

 

[nerdspeak]

8 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

You enjoy those Belgian waffles hey? Moules frittes you know what i mean.

 

I enjoy that my rent is 900 euros in the city center, that going to the doctor costs 3 euros a visit, and that I can do my chosen career here, which would be impossible in the US without inherited money. 
 

If you want to try making tens of millions of dollars with low taxes, by all means move to the US or Dubai. But I was moderately successful in the US — paper millionaire with a startup in my early 20s — and it’s a much tougher and less fun game than the business gurus make it out to be. 

Edited June 15 by nerdspeak

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, nerdspeak said:

If you want to try making tens of millions of dollars with low taxes, by all means move to Dubai. 

That’s what @zazen is trying to do. He’s turning his back on human rights. 

[BlueOak]

On 14/06/2025 at 5:08 PM, Miguel1 said:

I’m just gonna leave this here. And no, it’s not AI made. These are recorded before AI.

 

Another person who is conflating illegal immigration with legal immigration.

ICE is targeting legal migrants, people going through the process and doing everything they should. They are making the problem worse, because now people won't use the process.

Its all part of the erosion of the American state and certainly its democracy. It really is a rot, and it's deeply rooted at this point. Oh and it comes about because instead of intelligent leadership, its all about the drama for ratings.

Edited June 16 by BlueOak

[Hardkill]

On 6/14/2025 at 3:59 AM, DocWatts said:

The author is me, btw 

And you're right - what I'm suggesting in that article is a long term strategy, and on its own it's not enough.

The epistemic work needs to be done in parallel with civic participation.

In addition to the approach of epistemic attunement I outline in that article, we need to be building a broad-based civil resistance movement to hold the line against fascism - which is why I've been encouraging folks to join pro-democracy groups like Indivisible and attend the No Kings protests.

We also need to be building the infrastructure for the 2026 midterms right now. Neither assuming that Trump is going to cancel the election (ie obeying in advance), nor assuming that an election that's a year and a half away will save us. Taking the House and Senate will be vital in obstructing Trump's authoritarian takeover, but we need to be acting as citizens right now. 

That means attending protests, participating in boycotts, calling your elected officials, knocking on doors, raising money for pro-democracy organizations. Even if midterms are a blowout for the Dems, we need to put in the work right now to make sure that happens and some form of democracy survives until then.

Oh wow, I didn't realize that you wrote that. That honestly was a very well-written article. 

Yeah, I agree with what you're saying here. It absolutely is going to take work massive work and devotion for years to stop this monstrosity.

[DocWatts]

7 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Oh wow, I didn't realize that you wrote that. That honestly was a very well-written article. 

Yeah, I agree with what you're saying here. It absolutely is going to take work massive work and devotion for years to stop this monstrosity.

Thanks!

Above all, we're in this together. That means not just the Left, or even the littl corner of the internet we've cultivated on these Forums, but everyone who doesn't want to live under a tyrannical white supremecist mafia state.

The challenge over the upcoming years is to build a broad-tent pro-democracy movement that can close ranks against the American equivalent of the Nazis.

The Hands Off and No Kings protests are a promising start - but we need to keep up the momentum and above all draw more people in to the pro-democracy movement.

Edited June 16 by DocWatts

[BlueOak]

Ice-arresting candidates now. Someone tell me again the US isn't a fascist state.

I think its me tbh, I think me having a small amount of respect for the US as a democracy needs to go completely.

Edited June 18 by BlueOak

[Ulax]

I think things seem worse than they are.

I think it’s partly because of this talk of ‘post truth politics’. This talk of post truth politics is misleading because it makes it seem like this right wing rejection of truth and favouring of self serving narratives is something new. It is not new. This is just propaganda in the modern day.