Why Women Prefer Betas

[Natasha Tori Maru]

9 minutes ago, Puer Aeternus said:

Loool, the infinite factory line, bagging them yourself, so true!

And to think. All these years I thought it was just delicious chocolate ice cream! Couldn't get enough of it!

Felt so betrayed to see the hoes scamper away in fear when they saw it caked all over my face.

You can truly concoct an amusing freakfest of a sentence and I'm here for it.

 

It is my honor to inject as many colorful word combinations into my prose as I can muster!

After all, I am trying to serve up some turds in the most appetizing way possible ദ്ദി( • ᴗ - ) ✧ 

Edited June 14 by Natasha Tori Maru

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I consider actions as the body language of truth. But I will add - actions should align with words.

Words are on air, in paper, on a forum. Actions exist in that they impact people, systems & environments. And while words can have impact, they are a fart in the wind compared to action. Words can point to meaning, but its actions that create meaning.

What you say and what do must align. This is when someone has congruency internally. Words can lie, but actions reveal. Just look at the turdfest that is reddit - it's full of words that postulate, flatter, or manipulate. Approval seeking, virtue signaling.

Consistent action/behavior shows actual values, beliefs, and priorities. If we apply this discernment in seeking maturity and self-awareness in others, we need to watch their patterns of behavior. This requires time and experience with the person, but also objective observation - which can be difficult if you are emotionally immature/unconscious and looking for something ie confirmation bias. This can be why you will attract the wrong person into your life. That unconscious will control the trajectory of your life until you make it conscious.

I don't want to know anything about a person's past. I want to see them now. Words can create a false sense of closeness - especially if you are expressing trauma, as to be 'seen' is powerful, and can accelerate bonding without truly assessing character. Beware of text - it gives the person time to craft a false identity in lieu of body language, tone and actions.

Actions that show someone is conscious (not an exhaustive list): In argument, choosing not to react in anger. Care or service with no intention for it to be returned. Sacrifice. Owning mistakes quickly, no blame shifting. Saying no and not doing something without guilt - truth over approval. Delaying gratification - discipline. Following through with promises (words and actions aligning). And the biggest measure for character for me personally? Doing the right thing when no one's watching. Forgetting about the inconvenience of the action, but proceeding because it is RIGHT. 

Beautiful, thank you for sharing.

Edited June 14 by aurum

[Natasha Tori Maru]

27 minutes ago, aurum said:

Beautiful, thank you for sharing.

Absolutely - and thank you.

Your questions really prompt me to think about what I am doing behind the scenes. Every time I encounter someone, in particular on this forum, the interaction prompts me to really assess my values, my internal process. Even my emotional responses.

"Why am I being presented with this situation? What can I learn from it? And, more importantly, how can I use it in application to positively effect future outcomes?"

I sort of dissect myself and others as a study. I love self-development, because I get to assess behavior and then figure out what I can do to skillfully influence the individual to grow in the direction that will help them. I do this with the people I work with in a professional environment to achieve shared goals. I do this with my family, with my friends, even lovers. I never order anyone around; I never use force. I use leverage. I work out the weak points in the system. Can I bend this rule? Can I break it? 

No one can escape my manipulations 😈

I can't do this with any benevolence unless I am always assessing what my goal is. But I do have to check myself, as there is some arrogance in me believing I know what is best for others. If I don't know what will help, I simply accept me listening without any intention to respond, will be help. 

Anyway, I digress - but this forum and the users sharpen me. 

So here is my belated appreciation of you as a poster Aurum, as you produce high quality content. 

Even if we are in disagreement 

[aurum]

8 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

So here is my belated appreciation of you as a poster Aurum, as you produce high quality content. 

Now you're just being too sweet 

I enjoy your writing as well. It's poetic and thoughtful.

[BlessedLion]

17 hours ago, Puer Aeternus said:

Meh, just sounds like he's making content for the average person. Most folks will be average, not self-actualizers. Not surprising he's moving in this direction.

 

Probably decent for people who want to stabilize on that level and grow through it. Ultimately average seeking people will be drawn to it and those seeking something more will go elsewhere. As you have! 

For sure. No hate on being average- I guess he never really promotes himself as creating a profound life, it’s more just let getting through with as little suffering possible 

[integral]

15 hours ago, aurum said:

But you can find mature people, as long as you don't set your expectations for "maturity" absurdly high.

There are many mature women at Green. If you lived in a relatively Green city or country, you'd find tons of them.

Thats not the point i made, im saying maturity doesn't matter.

Mature does not mean compatible.

Edited June 14 by integral

[Emerald]

22 hours ago, integral said:

In practice it's not like this, people are lopsided in their intellect, people are unstable depending on circumstances.

A mature person is not like a statue were they're simply mature and that's it.

To love someone you need a level of non-judgmentalism that tier 1 just can't do in practice.

Sure I could find a mature stage Blue Woman but then we're likely not compatible in many areas, she might be romantically suppressed.

Where am I going to find mature woman?

What do they look like? I have never seen one irl.

I had 10 long-term relationships, none of them were mature.

You're mixing up level of high-level intellectual/paradigmatic development with maturity.

But maturity is a lot more grounded and ordinary than that, which can be realized at any stage of Spiral Dynamics.

It's important to be able to distinguish the differences between intelligence, maturity, and Spiral Dynamics stage.

And why is it that you haven't seen any mature women in real life?

They do exist. So, it seems to me that you're only tuning into the immature ones as potential mates.

And I wanted to know if it was a preference or a scarcity thing.

[integral]

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

ou're mixing up level of high-level intellectual/paradigmatic development with maturity.

But maturity is a lot more grounded and ordinary than that, which can be realized at any stage of Spiral Dynamics.

It's important to be able to distinguish the differences between intelligence, maturity, and Spiral Dynamics stage.

I'm aware of that that I'm saying something more nuanced.

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

And I wanted to know if it was a preference or a scarcity thing.

I tried giving an answer but it too difficult in the end to communicate.

[Emerald]

On 6/13/2025 at 5:52 PM, BlessedLion said:

I think I’m done with Dr. K. I unsubscribed from his videos. He seems to be taking this new position of promoting being average and giving up on trying to do anything great in life or having a vision. His latest video “Why Most Men Never Grow Up” made little to no sense to me, and coupled with this latest “Women Love Betas” one it’s proven to me he is on a different take than I agree with.

He scoffs at using yoga or meditation to transcend what I would consider monkey games

He promotes drugery, settling down with any woman (don’t try to get a beautiful girlfriend, lower your standards), don’t view yourself as the Hero in your own life (why not? I think you must when you consider everything you’re up against in this insane society), having a boring average job (this is being mature!), and basically throwing in the towel on trying to do something great and profound with your life. 

Along with this Beta video, I’m still unsure- what’s the solution here? Be average? Plug into a social structure that keeps people miserable, drained, and lonely? 

Fuck that, I believe in tapping into and expanding your power. If I didn’t I wouldn’t be where I’m at today, dating models, financially free, living my purpose, healthy, disciplined, autonomous and fully authentic

Not my cup of tea anymore and I don’t think it’s what we should be promoting. 

To be fair, Dr. K is probably in his late 30s or early 40s.

And the wisdom of that age is to be right in the middle of life with the new dawning embodied recognition that your time is bounded by death... and that you have about as long in front of you as you have behind you.

So, there is a great contraction that comes from the wisdom of this age, while youth (from age 0 to age 35) is all about expansion and the wisdom of expansion. And life is contextualized through the illusion of infinite expansion.

And there's a great wisdom and maturity that comes from recognizing that you are ordinary... and dying the death of the illusion of exceptionality that youth brings with it.

And that's when one recognizes their place in the circle of life... and that the simple things in life like friends and family are what makes life worth living. And with contraction comes a richer experience of the smallness of life.

That's not as to say that one cannot aim for excellence and move towards their goals and dreams. Everyone would be wise to also embrace their excellence.

But being able to conceptualize of a finish line and conceptualizing your life in relationship to a not so far distant death brings us face to face with the fact that we cannot infinitely expand. We must also contract.

So, I think Dr. K is actually doing a favor in giving this advice. Expansion is Masculine and contraction is Feminine. And I've observed that men generally tend to have a harder time contracting and letting go of the expansion of youth... though women are not exempt from the same patterns.

But this can lead to older men who are stuck existing as the Puer Aeternis (of Puella Aeternis for women).

[Emerald]

On 6/13/2025 at 6:15 PM, BlessedLion said:

Definitely agree with this but I’m not sure if how Dr. K positions it is akin to what you’re saying. It almost seems like he is bashing on the guy on the right who became disciplined and got his health in check and a ripped physique. 
 

It does depend for sure where that motivation comes from but full honesty, for most men it starts as some form of insecurity especially in their 20s and once they feel disciplined and empowered it becomes more of a joy. 
 

For example the guy in Dr. Ks example may have needed to build that body to feel more wanted by women or alpha or whatever then after he moves through that phase he’s can relax and little and just enjoy it because it’s healthy. Just my take- interesting convo though. 

I didn't pick up on him bashing on the guy too much... but it's been a few days since I watched it.

It's more about him communicating what studies and surveys show that women actually like.

And women (even if it's not correct to project this) might see a guy with a very muscular, ripped, or shredded physique and have a bias where he doesn't come across as the kind of man a woman would feel good in a relationship with.

[Jannes]

This fits well into the discussion. Should the top 10% of males pick a partner?

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

10 minutes ago, Jannes said:

This fits well into the discussion. Should the top 10% of males pick a partner?

 

Interesting. 

This is what I see a lot of on this forum, and the internet at large: the attempt to try to divorce sexuality from the rest of life. It doesn't work, sexuality is the very essence of life. 

With men that have opportunities like the above (as with women), my personal view it's it's cowardly and flippant to not be decisive. 'The grass is always greener' is based on fear. Face that shit and choose. I respect that. Be decisive. 

Fact of the matter is most people have nfi who they are or what they want. So they have no confidence in their ability to select.

Edited June 15 by Natasha Tori Maru

[Jannes]

.

Edited June 15 by Jannes

[Jannes]

17 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Interesting. 

This is what I see a lot of on this forum, and the internet at large: the attempt to try to divorce sexuality from the rest of life. It doesn't work, sexuality is the very essence of life. 

With men that have opportunities like the above (as with women), my personal view it's it's cowardly and flippant to not be decisive. 'The grass is always greener' is based on fear. Face that shit and choose. I respect that. Be decisive. 

Fact of the matter is most people have nfi who they are or what they want. So they have no confidence in their ability to select.

The situation of a top 10% or in this case moreso top 0.1% of men is hard to understand from the outside.

I mean its not just the men acting immoral, there is a whole system of people supporting this (in this case the girls who give themselves away for free). Very attractive guys can get emotionally isolated because people just want to fuck them and dont actually see them as a person, so they return that. 

And the primitive urges of a guy are making men want to have sexual abundance. 

Its a lot to ask from a top tier guy.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, Jannes said:

The situation of a top 10% or in this case moreso top 0.1% of men is hard to understand from the outside.

I mean its not just the men acting immoral, there is a whole system of people supporting this (in this case the girls who give themselves away for free). Very attractive guys can get emotionally isolated because people just want to fuck them and dont actually see them as a person, so they return that. 

And the primitive urges of a guy are making men want to have sexual abundance. 

Its a lot to ask from a top tier guy.

All valid points.

A man (or woman) can choose to not commit to one person and endlessly wet their dick. Sexual novelty is really important to a lot of men.

The reason I don't judge that decision is 1) it is actually a decision, and 2) who am I to decide what is good for that person?

The issue for me is lack of foresight. Theres an assumption personal values are static. Sure, it may be good to be non-committal in the moment, indulge in hedonism. But let's tack on 50 years. Now you're a geriatric, your sex drive is lower. Sometimes the peepee don't work, and it's like sticking a marshmallow in a coin slot. Recovery time from sex is no longer minutes - it's a week or more. Your cock isn't governing your decisions like it was, or, you are mature enough to tell it 'down boy' when needed. Suddenly you want just one woman, you want closeness, intimacy, kindness. Commitment. 

There is inherent risk with any decision in life - but you need to make it a calculated one. Decide. At least then you can't just sit back and cry, and make everything a pity party 'life was so hard on me'. No, you took a risk and it didn't pay off. You gave it a hell of a go. You were a man. You HAPPENED to life, it didn't just happen to you.

This lack of foresight is woven in with many people. Whatever decision you make, you are going to miss out. That is just how life is. Compromise.

I've personally been with a man who went through this transition. He is well known online, and locally. He could have any women due to the fame and power he has. He is 63 years old (yes a large age gap, but I don't do anything by the book). His value system completely changed in the time I was with him. I am not saying this happens for every man, but you need to assess what a life looks like for you without your dick being the rudder.

BTW not talking to you directly Jannes, just expressing my views and experience.

[Puer Aeternus]

2 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

All valid points.

A man (or woman) can choose to not commit to one person and endlessly wet their dick. Sexual novelty is really important to a lot of men.

The reason I don't judge that decision is 1) it is actually a decision, and 2) who am I to decide what is good for that person?

The issue for me is lack of foresight. Theres an assumption personal values are static. Sure, it may be good to be non-committal in the moment, indulge in hedonism. But let's tack on 50 years. Now you're a geriatric, your sex drive is lower. Sometimes the peepee don't work, and it's like sticking a marshmallow in a coin slot. Recovery time from sex is no longer minutes - it's a week or more. Your cock isn't governing your decisions like it was, or, you are mature enough to tell it 'down boy' when needed. Suddenly you want just one woman, you want closeness, intimacy, kindness. Commitment. 

There is inherent risk with any decision in life - but you need to make it a calculated one. Decide. At least then you can't just sit back and cry, and make everything a pity party 'life was so hard on me'. No, you took a risk and it didn't pay off. You gave it a hell of a go. You were a man. You HAPPENED to life, it didn't just happen to you.

This lack of foresight is woven in with many people. Whatever decision you make, you are going to miss out. That is just how life is. Compromise.

I've personally been with a man who went through this transition. He is well known online, and locally. He could have any women due to the fame and power he has. He is 63 years old (yes a large age gap, but I don't do anything by the book). His value system completely changed in the time I was with him. I am not saying this happens for every man, but you need to assess what a life looks like for you without your dick being the rudder.

BTW not talking to you directly Jannes, just expressing my views and experience.

To advocate the devilish counter-points.

I think at the end of the day, it can be quite personal and biological what happens! Though what the split is.. who knows.

A fully loaded, horned up man operating from second head consciousness will move mountains with his bare hands to secure some kitty. The semen demon is a force that grips many of us by the balls, quite literally, and sometimes doesn't let go. 

Sometimes them ol' boys just never stop wantin a good ol' fashioned fuckin. Lust still their modus operandi. I've seen both sides. I mean, retirement homes being a petri dish for STDs isn't coming from nowhere! Someone's gotta be giving widowed Deborah the desired backshots after bingo night.

Certainly a trend that many men transition from chasing any moving bush to family mode. And there are social pressures towards that, even if some are still horndogs dreaming of steamy affairs deep down undah. But I don't think it's a given or necessarily inevitable, even if there's a biological decline.

As you said! It is a risk. The slight mouth vomit higher value males can get away with its for longer, as they maintain more sexual market value into later age. Average guys? Much more risky. But ultimately the horny gon do what the horny gon do. If horny is the primary operating system, it's behind the wheel controlling things. Difficult to see beyond it when possessed by it. Erections feel as infinite as the true nature of reality. The army of millions will keep swimming til' proper exhaustion. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Puer Aeternus Which are actually fair points! 

Sex drive changes for some, less for others. But it is threaded within the tapestry of our experience.

It circles back to knowing yourself, insight. Maintaining that connection to yourself with conscious awareness. You will grow, you will change. What you value will rise up - and in your example, that could happen alongside valuing consistent and novel sex. And as your nursing home example encapsulates - sex doesn't just end as you get to an age (as my anecdote and what I experienced relays).

The trials and tribulations of relationship to others.

One quote from my ex 'The mind is willing, but the body can't keep up' with regard to his sex drive. The thoughts remain; the drive is there. I thought the example might be interesting for others here, as it is an example of a man in a power position. He had a wide option pool of women. But the things he valued changed. And he was caught off guard. He was left alone, with no one. The body gets to a position where it just cannot function the same. Typically, you're going to experience a crisis of values. Just like when a woman ages and her pool of options suddenly becomes very narrow.

I just want people consumed with this 'top .1% of men' hierarchy issue to realize that if you project some of these lifestyles forward in time - there is very little critical thinking involved. Which shows lack of consciousness. Anyone at the top of the hierarchy also has to deal with falling from it - which is an additional ego death lower rung people may never have to experience. 

As Leo says, it's a shame more people don't go down the path of honesty, truth, consciousness. Because hey - there may be more people out there able to engage in conscious polyamory. Conscious open relationships.

I admit through all of this, my perspective is inhibited because I cannot possibly ever know what it is like to experience the sex drive of a man.

My mind goes more toward building a sustainable life. Not getting distracted by comparison. 

If you approach something with this perspective of lack - you are creating that void inside yourself.

 

[Puer Aeternus]

@Natasha Tori Maru Yess, yess very good points and I do really agree with you- I'm just being a little nitpicker  The situation with your ex is a very good example of how things can turn around in the end. Interesting to hear about!

So I'll build on you instead, this time. You're absolutely right that little critical thinking is involved in the decisions of these men. And I think there's a key ingredient as to why things are this way.

As a cock and ball wielder, I can share the direct experience of what it's like! And let me tell ya. Being in male lust heavily resists awareness. That's why post nut clarity is a thing, no conscious thoughts are had until blood flow re-directs north! 

From what I've experienced and researched, being in lust can make a man operate like a wolf. It is a drive towards escalation, it wants to hunt and experience flesh. Tunnel vision on ejaculation pushes all other considerations away. It's why we do fucked up things to get it, it's a problematic design of unconsciousness.

Of course, it's only difficult but not impossible to be aware during this process. Issue is, it's a high barrier and there aren't usually social pressures pushing towards the necessary compensatory awareness! Rather it's often encouraged. And then like you said, many men come to awareness as they age.. get post-nut clarity on their entire life and trigger a crisis.

The increased sexual access of financial and/or social wealth can be a double edged sword. Possible to burn the karma faster and move on or get stuck in it more deeply until it's too late. Really wish people could move through this process more consciously too! But it is a wicked problem. Because the average male thinker, even when wealthy, is prone to getting ragdolled by this overpowering force. I find most are social thinkers and don't get the cultural scaffolding to know how tf to manage/become aware of/healthily express these urges! 

Edited June 15 by Puer Aeternus

[Jirh]

Women may prefer Betas. Yet, often times, they are gullible and get easily manipulated by Alphas. (loose usage of this terminology).

It's the same phenomenon as a good product that doesn't have great marketing or packaging against a toxic product that's the opposite. Most women fall into the trap of the toxic man and they can't help it.

No human is immune to deception by appearances, more so the normie guys, and even more so normie women (cuz they lack experience and insight), as they are just regular low consciousness human beings who mainly operate on autopilot and knee-jerk reactions with the same retarded lizard brain motivation system.

[Emerald]

10 minutes ago, Jirh said:

Women may prefer Betas. Yet, often times, they are gullible and get easily manipulated by Alphas. (loose usage of this terminology).

It's the same phenomenon as a good product that doesn't have great marketing or packaging against a toxic product that's the opposite. Most women fall into the trap of the toxic man and they can't help it.

No human is immune to deception by appearances, more so the normie guys, and even more so normie women (cuz they lack experience and insight), as they are just regular low consciousness human beings who mainly operate on autopilot and knee-jerk reactions with the same retarded lizard brain motivation system.

While it's true that many women fall in with a toxic guy at some point in their lives, it's just as as easy for a "beta" guy to be toxic compared to an "alpha" guy.

So, the idea of "non-toxic beta" versus "toxic alpha" just isn't really true.

And that idea tends to lead into the "nice guy" phenomenon, where a guy starts believing that he's a nice guy... and gets bitter because the woman he likes isn't interested in him.