Are men or women the prize?

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

You could have simply said "women". 

No. I used exactly the key word.

[BlessedLion]

On 6/5/2025 at 9:20 AM, AION said:

Women get their value from nature and L’loreal. Men’s value is gained through blood, sweat and tears. We as kings should never forget our place and if you assume it they will treat you as is. 

 

Depends completely on the man or woman. 
 

For an incel black pill dude, she is the prize

For a undeveloped gold digger, a rich guy is the prize 

 

This is way too black & white thinking

 

Ideally the 2 balance each other out and provide their own value and strengths

 The feminine provides Nurture, Energy, Life, Fun, Beauty

the masculine provides Structure, Leadership, Groundedness, Protection 

 

Yet no one here will listen, the mysogony and ignorance will continue 

 

You think God is stupid? That these 2 poles don’t balance each other out?

[AION]

@BlessedLion dating is a cat and mouse game. It is in the nature of dualism that one party is the attractor and the other the attracted. This is the law of polarity and poles can shift. That is true. That is the whole game of letting relationships work. For me chasing doesn’t work just like for all the other guys in this thread. Perhaps for you it does. More power to you. 

Edited June 6 by AION

[Lyubov]

11 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

Whenever I have pursued a woman and made her the prize (whether big or small), it has never ever worked out. And it’s not like I am repulsive and unattractive in nature.

It’s been so ineffective to the point that I have grown up and eliminated that part of me completely. Now I only lead:

Right??? It’s so so damn ineffective. Like there is literally nothing worse a guy can do to set it up in his mind and frame it where the woman is the prize and align his actions with this intention 

it’s so bad, I even tested it somewhat recently when I was single. You can KINDA entice them if you find a woman who wants to be a sugar baby but it is literally a recipe to be used and passed on. You are simping if you put the woman up as the prize.

Sometimes it genuinely baffles me how women are just so oblivious to their own nature. It’s shocking. No woman in the world desires a man they are punching down on. Every woman wants to feel they are punching above their weight. It’s why you see every single woman fawning over and seriously having a pass at celebrity guys or high earning guys, never the other way around. It’s extremely rare and if so the guy half the time has warped it and she has set it up in her mind to see him above her. 

[Nemra]

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Do not limit survival to the physical. Consider the issue holistically.

@Leo Gura, do you mean that I should apply that notion to everyone or everything?

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

You could have simply said "women". 

No. I used exactly the key word.

It needs a man, but it is not exactly tied to women.

To be honest, it is unclear how I should think it manifests.

Edited June 6 by Nemra

[Emerald]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Pussy is much more than pure sexuality.

Pussy is a big abstract notion that fuels the whole feminine.

Can you define in detail what it is that you mean by pussy so that we aren't miscommunicating on the semantics?

I thought you literally meant vagina. But explain what you really mean.

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Can you define in detail what it is that you mean by pussy

I would rather leave it vague, abstract, and undefined.

I invite folks to just contemplate the issue and see what insights arise.

Edited June 6 by Leo Gura

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

These men don't understand what it means to be the prize and what it means to be the leader. They hear prize and they pair that with 'better than' or 'above'. They don't even realize how they really don't want to feel like the prize. Any man that's a prize to a woman will only resent her in the end.

I do think that's where the miscommunication is coming from.

And there's a lot of assumptions that I mean a desperate chasing the woman or supplication of one's self to the woman. A man must have self-respect and boundaries as well or that will be repulsive. And he cannot make the woman the center of his life as he has to have other things that he's got going on.

And a man should still be detached from her even as he sees her as the prize, and willing to do the right thing for all parties involved even if it means losing her. So, cherishing a woman as the prize doesn't mean making his entire life about her. In fact, it's the opposite.

It's in him knowing there is no scarcity of "prizes". And being fully willing to let the prize go if that's the right thing. Non-attachment is key.

And what the guys are talking about on the thread is also looking at this on too short of a timeline. And it's not surprising because I get the sense that none of these men have been married or had a really longterm live-in relationship.

So, they're calibrating themselves to the first few months or year of a relationship... of which it's important to go slowly and not jump the gun. And there should be a mutual element of push and pull.

But what I'm referring to is a slight imbalance in a long-term relationship where the guy is highly invested in the particular woman and there is a continued space of tension and pursuit where the woman loves him deeply but isn't 100% impressed or won over by him, where her admiration is conditioned upon his actions and his character.

And that gives space for the man to show up in his life and for her and to be appreciated and earn her respect through either achieving something relative to his individualistic goals or by investing in her, because it gives him something to do and be appreciated for.

For example, a man who is invested in his wife or longterm partner may put in efforts to show up for her and help her because he values her and sees her as the prize. And men who really care about the women they're with just tend to naturally do this as lots of men show people that they care about them through acts of service.

But if the woman sees him as the prize, there is no space for her to appreciate his doing and his Masculinity. Instead, she will see him as her precious gem just for existing and appreciating him on the level of his Feminine.

And lots of men have this fantasy... especially the ones that feel a sense of scarcity or feel unworthy of love. But in reality, they don't enjoy being treated like a woman's precious gem.

And for a man, it will be like a game that's too easy to win, and it will lose its meaning.

And men don't like that, as men want to "win her over" and be appreciated and respected for their investments and legwork.

And you can't win over a woman who sees you as the prize because she is already won over. And the value of her admiration goes down because it's like getting applause when you haven't done anything challenging or special to earn it.

But women tend to do best when they're valued as the prize on the level of being for who she is... rather than things that she does.

In contrast, men tend to do best when they are loved on the level of being as a baseline.... but are valued, respected, and appreciated for what they do.

And that's why it's not a good idea for the man to be the prize.

[Emerald]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I would rather leave it vague, abstract, and undefined.

I invite folks to just contemplate the issue and see what insights arise.

Just from the internal subjective experience of being a woman, I wouldn't say "pussy" is a good word to describe the subjective experience of delighting in a particular man in the way it actually is.

That's more of an external male-centric way of describing the experience... and focuses more on the purely physical erogenous zones that are getting direct stimulation. And men are highly physically motivated towards sex in terms of the direct stimulation.

But the desire is very emotional for the woman... rather than physical.

So, I would probably use the word womb instead, as that's what wakes up when the heart wakes up. And it's much more emotional. 

The longing doesn't originate from the pussy. It awakens the heart, which then awakens the womb, which then creates the desire for the physical.

And when you have strong heart-based erotic feelings towards a particular man that radiate from the center of the chest... and something he does or says pushes a particular chemical button, the womb contracts in anticipation of sucking semen deeper into the body and conceiving a child. And there are feelings of longing for closeness.

So, it's far more about the womb than it is about the pussy... but all of that is downstream of the heart.

In contrast, if you're masturbating... that's just pussy. It's all about getting the right stimulation... and following the path from A to B to orgasm.

[Emerald]

6 hours ago, AION said:

The topic of this discussion intersects with the topic of women’s hypergamy. 

Women are biologically wired for hypergamy seeking the best man they can get.

That's not what hypergamy actually means in practice.

It's not about seeking the best guy out of all the guys. That's too logical. And women are not logical about their attractions.

Hypergamy is about a preference that tends towards wanting a guy who's older than her, taller than her, stronger than her, and maybe more financially abundant than her.

So, hypergamy is relative to the woman herself... and not to the whole of men as a group.

I can be very hypergamously attracted to a guy who's a few years older than me, a few inches taller than me, and a little bit stronger than me. And a middle class guy who makes a little bit more money than me could also be something appealing, though I am less financially hypergamous than I am with age, strength, and height.

But I'm 5'2". So, it's not hard to find a guy who's taller than me. And I'm not more attracted to a guy who's 6'3" compared to a guy who's 5'10". They're all giants to me.

For most women, hypergamous attraction is subtle. And it just hits those subtle Masculine/Feminine polarity notes where you can notice the difference within the similarity.

To understand female attraction and hypergamy, you must understand this.

[BlessedLion]

3 hours ago, AION said:

For me chasing doesn’t work just like for all the other guys in this thread. Perhaps for you it does.

How do you meet and date women? Do they just come knocking at your door in a line waiting to be anointed? 
 

There has to be some element of pursuit, especially as a man. 

[CARDOZZO]

We will see how reality plays out 20 years from now. 

I do not have faith on restauration of classic monogamic relationships. 

Being a woman who wants to have kids/family is treated like a disease on our modern culture. (Do not believe myself, look around you.)

Society will not recover from that shit. 

We are seeing it: Robots, CRISPR, Genetic Engineering. 

Edited June 6 by CARDOZZO

[Nemra]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I would rather leave it vague, abstract, and undefined.

I invite folks to just contemplate the issue and see what insights arise.

@Leo Gura, are you imagining a single object that is all feminine things combined, that every person possesses a measurable portion of this object in varying amounts?

Edited June 6 by Nemra

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Nemra said:

@Leo Gura, are you imagining a single object that is all feminine things combined, where every person possesses a measurable portion of this object in varying amounts?

Not necessarily. You could conceive of it in various ways. There's not necessarily one right way to think of it. Which is why I leave it up to your imagination.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

I think Leo's pussy contemplation is about HOW you interpret the question, as well as your answer. And what it reveals about your inner workings.

Maybe continually asking for his frame is not ideal

[Raze]

16 hours ago, Emerald said:

 

But when an attraction organically arises (usually after a few months of interacting with a guy) it comes on randomly. And then, it's like I can suddenly see and feel everything that's attractive about him and these intense feelings arise.

But until this happens, every man is neutral to me. It's not negative. Nor are my thoughts about him framed in terms of how I perceive his level of attractiveness. He's just as neutral to me as an old woman, until things flip around... if they do end up flipping around.

But then what causes women to date men soon after meeting them or even have one night stands? Are they looking past the neutrality to do it or do some men somehow have attraction arise organically very rapidly?

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Maybe continually asking for his frame is not ideal

Bingo.

Leo's Pussy Rorschach Test

What does Pussy mean to you?

Edited June 6 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

16 hours ago, Emerald said:

It's a projection.

Men who feel disgust towards unattractive women, will project that women are feeling disgust towards them when a woman doesn't find them attractive.

But women see men as neutral regardless of their level of attractiveness.. until one really strikes her fancy.

Even when the unattractive man tries to flirt or make a move?

Women even have popularized the phrase “ick” to describe when they aren’t attracted to a man, ick is a signal of disgust 

[Nemra]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not necessarily. You could conceive of it in various ways. There's not necessarily one right way to think of it. Which is why I leave it up to your imagination.

Well, you came up with it, so I thought you had a specific thing in mind.

If you were to ask me, I would say that I imagine it more of a state of being.

Edited June 6 by Nemra

[Leo Gura]

@Nemra Contemplate what femininity is and why it is how it is.

Don't ask me. Contemplate.