Treat Women Like Children

[Alexop]

@Emerald Good points. I think a very developed woman can switch from her masculine to her feminine side easily. She will go on her masculine side and truth wrestle with you, then when the argument is over, she will chill out and become flexible and emotional again.

Edited April 5 by Alexop

[integral]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

as it requires a huge power imbalance to make it work and would require the woman to forego individuation and the curiosities of life.

It’s the exact opposite, by giving her a safe space -> she thrives.

Everything you’re saying is completely off, every woman I’ve dated needs to be spoken to through an emotional language.  Very carefully.

“”And if I were female, I'd feel like my agency was being stolen and that I wouldn't be able to fully bloom and have my partner appreciating my blooming.“”

I don’t know why you would think this the woman has no idea what’s happening? She has no idea if she’s been contained. She’s unconscious.

If you challenge her, it puts massive stress on her, and if she doesn’t have a self-development mindset, she will not grow. The relationship quickly breaks down when you don’t support her emotionally.

[integral]

Go date a woman.

Stop assuming you understand this subject without experiencing it. 

[Yimpa]

6 minutes ago, integral said:

Stop assuming you understand this subject without experiencing it. 

[Yimpa]

Treat Women Like God.

Fin.

Speak now or forever hold your peace 

[integral]

@Yimpa I was to mean 😪 

I’ve had nine relationships. It is always an emotional language that you need to be aware of how to communicate the entire time.

And I spent my time carefully guiding them to be the best version of themselves and to apply themselves and to help them through all aspects of their life.

But at no point is it no longer my job to constantly help them with their emotions whether they’re conscious of it or not.

Edited April 5 by integral

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, AION said:

Thanks for typing this. I’m struggling with this too. I wanted to type something about the anima but I thought I couldn’t do it justice so I didn’t. But the thing is , even if one has a sufficient anima integration, as a man you still need these tactical tools to deal with women. Anima integration won’t stop a woman flaking on the last moment because her God is her emotion. It has nothing to do with guys. 

There are women who are like that... but a lot of women (probably most) are not. But it's just a matter of having standards and sorting flaky women from consideration. (Side note: Having standards will also make you more attractive as well.)

The real issue you have here is a sense of scarcity where you feel like you have to settle for flaky women instead of finding a woman who isn't flaky.

There are plenty of flaky guys, and that behavior gives me "the ick" because it indicates to me that he's probably not got his life together. So, I wouldn't consider that guy for anything beyond friendship as it doesn't match what I want in my life.

I say this as someone whose first serious boyfriend (when I was a teenager) was super flaky and eratic. So, it's a dealbreaker for me.

You just have to recognize that you are not scarce in options (even though women aren't as ostentatious about their attractions, so it may seem so). Then, you can have standards and sort properly so that you don't have to even learn to deal with flaky women.

It's like if a woman was asking me "How do I deal with fuck boys?" I'd just tell her "Don't deal with fuck boys."

Sure, there are a lot of them... but most guys are not fuck boys. You can tell right away when a guy is or isn't. So, find one that isn't... and find one that you enjoy spending time with.

Just have some standards and sort them from consideration.

[Emerald]

23 minutes ago, integral said:

It’s the exact opposite, by giving her a safe space -> she thrives.

Everything you’re saying is completely off, every woman I’ve dated needs to be spoken to through an emotional language.  Very carefully.

“”And if I were female, I'd feel like my agency was being stolen and that I wouldn't be able to fully bloom and have my partner appreciating my blooming.“”

I don’t know why you would think this the woman has no idea what’s happening? She has no idea if she’s been contained. She’s unconscious.

If you challenge her, it puts massive stress on her, and if she doesn’t have a self-development mindset, she will not grow. The relationship quickly breaks down when you don’t support her emotionally.

I like to have a subtle containment dynamic in my relationships myself, so I am familiar with the concept.

My preferred relationship dynamic is 95% eye-to-eye ordinary human-to-human intimacy... and 5% playing at more traditional polarities for spice. 

But what Leo is describing isn't that.

He is saying to treat a woman like a child... and that the man has to stand in as the responsible one because Feminine women are irresponsible. And if a woman is responsible, then she is Masculine and unattractive.

The whole dynamic describes what happens between unintegrated men and women as the ideal, where one expects the other to act as their repressed part... and to "complete them".

And no intimacy is possible from that standpoint as it requires for the woman to remain in an un-individuated state to maintain pure Femininity and therefore attractiveness. And the man must remain purely in a repressed relationship with his Feminine to relegate the Feminine to the status of child.

This is not a natural state for humans to be in... because we are all 3-dimensional beings with many shades of Masculinity and Femininity playing through us... just as Yin and Yang can be found in all living and non-living systems.

So, to suggest such a strong polarization is just a reflection of someone who is not very well-integrated themselves and is repressing their own Feminine side.

Polarity attracts.... and similarity connects. The former is just the frosting on the cake of the latter which wears off as men and women age and mature.

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Alexop said:

@Emerald Good points. I think a very developed woman can switch from her masculine to her feminine side easily. She will go on her masculine side and truth wrestle with you, then when the argument is over, she will chill out and become flexible and emotional again.

Yes, people are naturally multi-faceted in that way.

Yin and Yang exists in all of us. And mature, well-integrated people will allow themselves to connect with all parts of themselves.

[AION]

23 minutes ago, Emerald said:

There are women who are like that... but a lot of women (probably most) are not. But it's just a matter of having standards and sorting flaky women from consideration. (Side note: Having standards will also make you more attractive as well.)

The real issue you have here is a sense of scarcity where you feel like you have to settle for flaky women instead of finding a woman who isn't flaky.

There are plenty of flaky guys, and that behavior gives me "the ick" because it indicates to me that he's probably not got his life together. So, I wouldn't consider that guy for anything beyond friendship as it doesn't match what I want in my life.

I say this as someone whose first serious boyfriend (when I was a teenager) was super flaky and eratic. So, it's a dealbreaker for me.

You just have to recognize that you are not scarce in options (even though women aren't as ostentatious about their attractions, so it may seem so). Then, you can have standards and sort properly so that you don't have to even learn to deal with flaky women.

It's like if a woman was asking me "How do I deal with fuck boys?" I'd just tell her "Don't deal with fuck boys."

Sure, there are a lot of them... but most guys are not fuck boys. You can tell right away when a guy is or isn't. So, find one that isn't... and find one that you enjoy spending time with.

Just have some standards and sort them from consideration.

Most guys don’t have endless options. Most guys inclination is not to screen for a relationship but to screen for sex. So when we have leads we want it to convert to something. And the most hottest girls are the most flaky because they have so many guy options so it requires skill to handle them. 

Edited April 5 by AION

[Emerald]

37 minutes ago, integral said:

Go date a woman.

Stop assuming you understand this subject without experiencing it. 

100%

I am a woman.

Stop assuming you understand this subject without experiencing it.

[Alexop]

15 minutes ago, AION said:

Most guys don’t have endless options. Most guys inclination is not to screen for a relationship but to screen for sex. So when we have leads we want it to convert to something. And the most hottest girls are the most flaky because they have so many options so it requires skill to handle them. 

If  you aim for sex, then 100% take de dude's advice. But if you aim for the deepest relationship ever, then find a woman who deeply understands herself and reality, not a child. I think this guy dealt with childish women. Of course you should not be very direct and super honest with such instagram-orange-make-up girls. They are not ready for it. But I refuse to believe that women are incapable of dealing with the truth of the world and at the same time be attractive. Maybe not attractive to some guys, whatever. The most attactive girls I met were hilghy intellectual but playful at the same time, not children. 

In the same way that you cannot be direct and honest with a nice guy. No mattter if men or women, if they are children, treat them like children. Maybe the universe will wake them up sometime, no you, let them sleep.

Edited April 5 by Alexop

[Emerald]

9 minutes ago, AION said:

Most guys don’t have endless options. Most guys inclination is not to screen for a relationship but to screen for sex. So when we have leads we want it to convert to something. And the most hottest girls are the most flaky because they have so many guy options so it requires skill to handle them. 

We live on a planet with 8 billion people. So, that's definitely a mindset thing.

And you can change that mindset if you want to so that you don't give "scraping the bottom of the pot" vibes. You would also just need to be more social in general to make this mindset shift.

And if you do make that shift, more women will see you as a higher quality guy who isn't desperate and has standards.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, integral said:

Go date a woman.

Stop assuming you understand this subject without experiencing it. 

Too bad @Emerald & I are one step above and ahead here - we EMBODY it. 

Unfortunately you are n=1 which does not a scientific study make. 

As an aside regarding Leos 'man child' comment - this is also the root cause for many women losing sexual desire for their partners. 

When the masculine partner (or feminine) behaves in an immature way like this, it forces the other partner into a 'parent role'.

You force your woman into the mother role... Well it's no wonder she loses her sex drive. It's difficult to be attracted to your son 

Edited April 5 by Natasha Tori Maru

[gambler]

Remember the lesson from this thread boys, learn to keep your mouths shut. Don't argue, make it lighthearted and fun.

Edited April 5 by gambler

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Too bad @Emerald & I are one step above and ahead here - we EMBODY it. 

Unfortunately you are n=1 which does not a scientific study make. 

As an aside regarding Leos 'man child' comment - this is also the root cause for many women losing sexual desire for their partners. 

When the masculine partner (or feminine) behaves in an immature way like this, it forces the other partner into a 'parent role'.

You force your woman into the mother role... Well it's not wonder she loses her sex drive. It's difficult to be attracted to your son 

Yeah, I feel like there's so much about living life as a woman that you really have to live in to experience... and you have to live it for a good long while too. And the longer you live it, the more you get it.

And most of the guys giving advice haven't even had a mature longterm relationship with a woman or gone past the initial attraction phase of the relationship. And most haven't even integrated their own Feminine side, yet want to grand-stand as experts on the Feminine.

But it's totally unearned because they just don't know any better.

So, this advice comes from a place of confident ignorance of not knowing how to do anything else but how to theoretically attract a woman... and not even caring to know more than that.

It just gets very stuck in the mud at step one of courtship before anything that's really interesting and deep can actually happen.

And it often takes a relative truth about what women like and flanderizes it until it's not realistic or human at all.

For example, it is true that a lot of women like to feel taken care of by their partner.

But saying "You need to treat women like a child" and saying that women lose attractiveness if they are responsible and good at surviving.... just distorts these subtle relationship dynamics into something garish and tacky... and unlivable and stifling for human beings.

And this loss of subtlety takes all the beauty out of Masculine and Feminine polarity... and turns it into a stifling, life-denying existence for the man and woman alike.

I sense that this flanderizaton tendency comes from both a lack of lived experience... and a desire to control and repress their own Feminine side and to gain control over the Feminine in general to strip the Feminine of its power.

Lots of these guys feel quite powerless in the face of the Feminine. So, there is a desire to minimize it and shrink it down to something that can fit comfortably in their pockets.

And that means taking something real, subtle, and nuanced... and turning it into something artificial, obvious, and simple.

[Emerald]

20 minutes ago, gambler said:

Remember the lesson from this thread boys, learn to keep your mouths shut. Don't argue, make it lighthearted and fun.

Why is that the lesson? 

[aurum]

19 minutes ago, gambler said:

Remember the lesson from this thread boys, learn to keep your mouths shut. Don't argue, make it lighthearted and fun.

This.

Don't talk about it, just do it. 

They'll appreciate it whether they understand what's happening not. 

[BlueOak]

41 minutes ago, Emerald said:

We live on a planet with 8 billion people. So, that's definitely a mindset thing.

And you can change that mindset if you want to so that you don't give "scraping the bottom of the pot" vibes. You would also just need to be more social in general to make this mindset shift.

And if you do make that shift, more women will see you as a higher quality guy who isn't desperate and has standards.

Or you get called too picky, like me. Everything has the reverse.

[Yimpa]

27 minutes ago, gambler said:

learn to keep your mouths shut.

Wrong. I prefer mouths that are super nova wide open, like a Black Hole