Toxic dating works better and it's killing me - how to stay authentic?

[Raze]

37 minutes ago, Emerald said:

 

Women like confident men with an edge who push the envelope. And a lot of narcissists are confident men with an edge who push the envelope... but will also make life hell.

Then why do you assume any nice guy who gets rejected must secretly be a asshole person and the woman sensed the red flags? Maybe he actually is nice but isn’t confident and doesn’t push the envelope.
 

And why don’t they sense the red flags when it’s with the charming narcissist?

Edited January 3 by Raze

[integral]

*   The ability to disappoint women is a vital skill for men to have successful relationships, as women tend to have a consumptive form of love.
*   Men often struggle to disappoint women due to a scarcity mentality, fearing it will jeopardize the relationship.
*   A woman's love is consumptive, meaning she wants all of your time and attention, and paradoxically, giving her everything she wants leads to her losing attraction.
*   Maintaining a relationship requires maintaining a high level of attraction, which means continuing to be the person she fell in love with.
*   Women can want to get what they want, but also on another level, they don't want to get what they want from you too often because it makes her feel unsafe.
*   Disappointing women communicates that you are centered in your masculine purpose, and can tolerate her distress, which allows her to relax into the relationship.
*   Women test men to see if they can turn them down, which demonstrates that they are maintaining frame.
*   Disappointing women sooner rather than later helps determine if she is mature enough to handle disappointment in a healthy way.
*   Rejection and disappointment can increase attraction, making the relationship more spicy and interesting.
*   Saying "no" to women can increase her attraction, much like when women reject men, it often has the same effect.

*   Beautiful women often appear "nuts" because they are rarely told the truth, creating a distorted perception of reality.
*   From a young age, attractive women experience differential treatment from men, who seek to please them rather than being honest.
*   Men often lie to beautiful women because honesty is not rewarded unless it aligns with what the woman wants to hear, and they learn that they get punished for speaking the truth.
*   Men who prioritize integrity or are on the autistic spectrum are more likely to be honest, but most men choose to lie to achieve their goals.
*   The presenter uses an analogy of a difficult manager to illustrate that men are not likely to risk telling the truth when there's a high probability of negative consequences.
*   Women often react negatively to the truth, getting offended or terminating the relationship, thus reinforcing men's tendency to lie.
*   Men learn to cater to women's models of reality, especially those of attractive women, which are often based on lies they have been told.
*   Less attractive women do not experience this as frequently because men are more likely to be honest when they don't have a vested interest in pleasing them.
*   The only exception where beautiful women might hear the truth is if they had strong male figures in their families who were not trying to sleep with them.
*   Ultimately, men lie to beautiful women because telling them the truth does not get them laid, and they find it's more effective to cater to what women want to hear.
 

---
 I did not post this because I agree or disagree.

---

It's interesting that one of my relationships ended exactly this way. Where I gave her everything and cater to her model of reality and then she  strongly pushed away when I started to tell her the truth. lol

Edited January 3 by integral

[CARDOZZO]

POV: Nice guys talking on a online forum how to please women while she is dating like there is no tomorrow.

Do you see how pathetic this sounds from a women perspective? That's why women should love confident bad boys.

They just are who they are. Fuck society.

 

[Raze]

1 minute ago, CARDOZZO said:

POV: Nice guys talking on a online forum how to please women while she is dating like there is no tomorrow.

Do you see how pathetic this sounds from a women perspective? That's why women should love confident bad boys.

They just are who they are. Fuck society.

 

Let’s see if you maintain that attitude when your daughter comes home with a black eye 

[CARDOZZO]

Just now, Raze said:

Let’s see if you maintain that attitude when your daughter comes home with a black eye 

Being a bad boy ≠ beating woman.

Never touch them.

[Raze]

1 minute ago, CARDOZZO said:

Being a bad boy ≠ beating woman.

Never touch them.

now you think bad boys will follow your rules? Lol

[CARDOZZO]

Just now, Raze said:

now you think bad boys will follow your rules? Lol

I did not think anything.

Do what you want.

[Whitney Edwards]

22 minutes ago, integral said:

*   The ability to disappoint women is a vital skill for men to have successful relationships, as women tend to have a consumptive form of love.
*   Men often struggle to disappoint women due to a scarcity mentality, fearing it will jeopardize the relationship.
*   A woman's love is consumptive, meaning she wants all of your time and attention, and paradoxically, giving her everything she wants leads to her losing attraction.
*   Maintaining a relationship requires maintaining a high level of attraction, which means continuing to be the person she fell in love with.
*   Women can want to get what they want, but also on another level, they don't want to get what they want from you too often because it makes her feel unsafe.
*   Disappointing women communicates that you are centered in your masculine purpose, and can tolerate her distress, which allows her to relax into the relationship.
*   Women test men to see if they can turn them down, which demonstrates that they are maintaining frame.
*   Disappointing women sooner rather than later helps determine if she is mature enough to handle disappointment in a healthy way.
*   Rejection and disappointment can increase attraction, making the relationship more spicy and interesting.
*   Saying "no" to women can increase her attraction, much like when women reject men, it often has the same effect.

*   Beautiful women often appear "nuts" because they are rarely told the truth, creating a distorted perception of reality.
*   From a young age, attractive women experience differential treatment from men, who seek to please them rather than being honest.
*   Men often lie to beautiful women because honesty is not rewarded unless it aligns with what the woman wants to hear, and they learn that they get punished for speaking the truth.
*   Men who prioritize integrity or are on the autistic spectrum are more likely to be honest, but most men choose to lie to achieve their goals.
*   The presenter uses an analogy of a difficult manager to illustrate that men are not likely to risk telling the truth when there's a high probability of negative consequences.
*   Women often react negatively to the truth, getting offended or terminating the relationship, thus reinforcing men's tendency to lie.
*   Men learn to cater to women's models of reality, especially those of attractive women, which are often based on lies they have been told.
*   Less attractive women do not experience this as frequently because men are more likely to be honest when they don't have a vested interest in pleasing them.
*   The only exception where beautiful women might hear the truth is if they had strong male figures in their families who were not trying to sleep with them.
*   Ultimately, men lie to beautiful women because telling them the truth does not get them laid, and they find it's more effective to cater to what women want to hear.
 

---
 I did not post this because I agree or disagree.

---

It's interesting that one of my relationships ended exactly this way. Where I gave her everything and cater to her model of reality and then she  strongly pushed away when I started to tell her the truth. lol

Yesterday I watched this video by Teal Swan. I must say she has exceptional insights on woman's behavior and psyche and thank God she exists. 

The video dispels a lot of myths about beautiful women and I relate to it a 100%. Most insightful video I saw so far. 

A lot of these myths are actually created and spread by men, one such example is your post. 

Maybe you should watch this video too. Give it a try if you care. 

 

[Whitney Edwards]

I want to share a bit of my own experience which some of you might find absurd. I often feel conflicted inside because of this experience. 

This is about my ex. He was initially attracted to me. Within a few months of the relationship he said that he had lost attraction for me. He was attracted to this girl online. He used to chat with her a lot. He said that I was more beautiful than her but she was more exciting to him. He told me that he is attracted to women who love drama and who are spicy. He told me that I wasn't spicy enough for him, that i was a plain Jane in comparison to the woman he was attracted to online. He liked her because she would be dramatic, start fights and make him chase her. She would play hard to get and he liked it about her. He told me that he doesn't like the fact that I'm always cool and never start a fight, I don't give him the chase. 

I felt humiliated and I dumped him. 

He also told me that I was an exceptionally good woman but he would have liked me more if I had the spicy personality of that woman he was attracted to. 

I feel very confused about men after this. I'm not sure if this is an isolated experience. I always thought that men are attracted to women who are straightforward, no drama and maintain a cool temperament. They say they don't like "drama" woman and they hate women who bring that energy. They also say they want a good woman. And they often say they don't like a woman who plays hard to get. 

I think in my situation, he didn't really love me or like me. He probably likes the chase more than the woman. It's like the more she is "unattainable" the more he is attracted to her. 

In my relationship with him, he got progressively more hateful and abusive and he would start fights, act like a jerk and provoke me for nothing. It's like he loved the stimulation of drama, fighting, tension, conflict. 

I finally found my wholesome man who loves and appreciates me being peaceful with him. 

To this day that experience with my ex has left me confused about men. Men say women are attracted to bad boys. Is my experience the male version of it? Maybe even men are attracted to toxic women, they probably find good women boring no matter how beautiful she might be. At least that's the gist I got from that experience. 

Or maybe it was a toxic dating experience. And I shouldn't base men off of that experience. 

[BlessedLion]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol

You make it sound like the women in Vegas are some special breed of materialistic sluts, when the women here are just normal women who fly in from all over the world.

I think being in a place like Vegas you almost filter out materialistic, transactional, shallow women. You’d probably be blown away by the types of women you can meet in places aligned with higher values and conscious living 

[BlessedLion]

1 hour ago, integral said:

*   The ability to disappoint women is a vital skill for men to have successful relationships, as women tend to have a consumptive form of love.
*   Men often struggle to disappoint women due to a scarcity mentality, fearing it will jeopardize the relationship.
*   A woman's love is consumptive, meaning she wants all of your time and attention, and paradoxically, giving her everything she wants leads to her losing attraction.
*   Maintaining a relationship requires maintaining a high level of attraction, which means continuing to be the person she fell in love with.
*   Women can want to get what they want, but also on another level, they don't want to get what they want from you too often because it makes her feel unsafe.
*   Disappointing women communicates that you are centered in your masculine purpose, and can tolerate her distress, which allows her to relax into the relationship.
*   Women test men to see if they can turn them down, which demonstrates that they are maintaining frame.
*   Disappointing women sooner rather than later helps determine if she is mature enough to handle disappointment in a healthy way.
*   Rejection and disappointment can increase attraction, making the relationship more spicy and interesting.
*   Saying "no" to women can increase her attraction, much like when women reject men, it often has the same effect.

*   Beautiful women often appear "nuts" because they are rarely told the truth, creating a distorted perception of reality.
*   From a young age, attractive women experience differential treatment from men, who seek to please them rather than being honest.
*   Men often lie to beautiful women because honesty is not rewarded unless it aligns with what the woman wants to hear, and they learn that they get punished for speaking the truth.
*   Men who prioritize integrity or are on the autistic spectrum are more likely to be honest, but most men choose to lie to achieve their goals.
*   The presenter uses an analogy of a difficult manager to illustrate that men are not likely to risk telling the truth when there's a high probability of negative consequences.
*   Women often react negatively to the truth, getting offended or terminating the relationship, thus reinforcing men's tendency to lie.
*   Men learn to cater to women's models of reality, especially those of attractive women, which are often based on lies they have been told.
*   Less attractive women do not experience this as frequently because men are more likely to be honest when they don't have a vested interest in pleasing them.
*   The only exception where beautiful women might hear the truth is if they had strong male figures in their families who were not trying to sleep with them.
*   Ultimately, men lie to beautiful women because telling them the truth does not get them laid, and they find it's more effective to cater to what women want to hear.
 

---
 I did not post this because I agree or disagree.

---

It's interesting that one of my relationships ended exactly this way. Where I gave her everything and cater to her model of reality and then she  strongly pushed away when I started to tell her the truth. lol

Psych hacks is wack, that dude is clearly bitter and scarily obsessive about over analyzing all this shit. Just come back to the Heart. Realize that both men and women are imperfect and have needs from each other. Laugh about it and relax, instead of hyper analyzing and subtly trying to control and protect yourself and your stupid ego from getting hurt. Consider that Love is natural, and you don’t need to do all this analyzing it’s insane 

[Whitney Edwards]

3 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

I think being in a place like Vegas you almost filter out materialistic, transactional, shallow women. You’d probably be blown away by the types of women you can meet in places aligned with higher values and conscious living 

The link didn't take me to your channel. I searched for lions heart, it didn't show up. Can you post a video from your channel so I can see it. 

[Whitney Edwards]

@BlessedLion ok found it. Thank you. 

 

[ricachica]

1 hour ago, Buck Edwards said:

I want to share a bit of my own experience which some of you might find absurd. I often feel conflicted inside because of this experience. 

This is about my ex. He was initially attracted to me. Within a few months of the relationship he said that he had lost attraction for me. He was attracted to this girl online. He used to chat with her a lot. He said that I was more beautiful than her but she was more exciting to him. He told me that he is attracted to women who love drama and who are spicy. He told me that I wasn't spicy enough for him, that i was a plain Jane in comparison to the woman he was attracted to online. He liked her because she would be dramatic, start fights and make him chase her. She would play hard to get and he liked it about her. He told me that he doesn't like the fact that I'm always cool and never start a fight, I don't give him the chase. 

I felt humiliated and I dumped him. 

He also told me that I was an exceptionally good woman but he would have liked me more if I had the spicy personality of that woman he was attracted to. 

I feel very confused about men after this. I'm not sure if this is an isolated experience. I always thought that men are attracted to women who are straightforward, no drama and maintain a cool temperament. They say they don't like "drama" woman and they hate women who bring that energy. They also say they want a good woman. And they often say they don't like a woman who plays hard to get. 

 

My first boyfriend in high school dumped me for similar reason. He dumped his previous girlfriend because he thought she was too much drama. I was the opposite, and very conflict avoidant. This stems from childhood, where I saw that my mother was extremely argumentative and I felt it led to my father to separate from her for a few years, which was painful for me. At a young age, I internalized this and vowed to be the opposite of my mother in my future relationships.

So when I started dating my boyfriend, I felt pretty proud that in 6 months, we had zero fights. He initially said it felt so good to be with me because I was not drama-filled like his ex. Towards the end, for a week he didn't text me at all...and even though this stressed me out, I suppressed that and never once brought it up. Thinking I was being a good girl for not being combative even in the slightest.

Turns out, that was not the best thing to do! He broke up with me after that week, and shocker, he said "I was too nice".... it completely baffled me. I even remember feeling like throwing up cause it was such a whirlwind and not what I expected at all. My whole life up until that point, I thought being the nice complaisant girl is what would save me from heartbreak...turns out no.

It was only like 6 months after the break up that it finally clicked with me one morning, and I was like omg! I let the pendulum swing too far in the other extreme! It is extreme and generally unattractive to most to be too drama-filled. It is also extreme and generally unattractive to be way too nice and doormat-like. In hindsight, you bet I should have texted him at least 1 day after he hadn't, not one week!

Today, I'm still definitely working on my conflict-avoidance issues, but I'm definitely much more balanced and willing to have an constructive argument at the least. Especially with my current boyfriend who encourages the communication and seeks to get to the root of the problem with me.

Edited January 3 by ricachica

[Whitney Edwards]

3 minutes ago, ricachica said:

My first boyfriend in high school dumped me for similar reason. He dumped his previous girlfriend because he thought she was too much drama. I was the opposite, and very conflict avoidant. This stems from childhood, where I saw that my mother was extremely argumentative and I felt it led to my father to separate from her for a few years, which was painful for me. At a young age, I internalized this and vowed to be the opposite of my mother in my future relationships.

So when I started dating my boyfriend, I felt pretty proud that in 6 months, we had zero fights. He initially said it felt so good to be with me because I was not drama-filled like his ex. Towards the end, for a week he didn't text me at all...and even though this stressed me out, I suppressed that and never once brought it up. Thinking I was being a good girl for not being combative even in the slightest.

Turns out, that was not the best thing to do! He broke up with me after that week, and shocker, he said "I was too nice".... it completely baffled me. I even remember feeling like throwing up cause it was such a whirlwind and not what I expected at all. My whole life up until that point, I thought being the nice complacent girl is what would save me from heartbreak...turns out no.

It was only like 6 months after the break up that it finally clicked with me one morning, and I was like omg! I let the pendulum swing to far in the other extreme! It is extreme and generally unattractive to most to be too drama-filled. It is also extreme and generally unattractive to be way too nice and doormat-like. In hindsight, you bet I should have texted him at least 1 day after he hadn't, not one week!

Today, I'm still definitely working on my conflict-avoidance issues, but I'm definitely much more balanced and willing to have an constructive argument at the least. Especially with my current boyfriend who encourages the communication and seeks to get to the root of the problem with me.

When I read your posts, I find you extremely intelligent. You have high self awareness and understanding. If someone doesn't appreciate it, it's really their own loss. It's great that you are now able to comfortably communicate. I appreciate that about your partner as well that he supports you. Relationships are about creating that unique beauty through mutual understanding and growth. That fine balance. I resonate so much with your experience, I grew up with an argumentative mother and a silent father and it honed in me that I should always keep my mouth shut and not argue too much. I saw the distress of my dad. So that obviously impacted my dating life too. In hindsight I was probably dating the wrong guy because I don't like drama, although I can argue, but drama adds a lot of stress to my life and I have autism on top of that, so it can get overwhelming for me to deal with someone who is dancing all around the place. 

I'm grateful and happy with my current partner, no fights at all and zero drama. It's the opposite image of my chaotic childhood and I feel very peaceful and joyous. 

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. 

I  think Teal has a video on childhood and dating patterns. I can't find it. 

But I found this. 

 

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

4 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

If you think so... If you think women are narcissists, well women are women and not much can be done about it. 

Yes, and we shouldn't be taking yall very seriously. Unfortunately we do, as a society

[AION]

5 hours ago, Emerald said:

Definitely insane. And I've encountered a lot of men in this nice guy/bad boy delusion when I was in my teens and early 20s.

And the issue in the first place is that they perceived themselves as nice guys when they were just ashamed and self-deprecating because of their shame, which doesn't have anything to do with being nice or pleasant to be around. 

But it tends to be the way good guy everyman main characters are written in movies to show that they are the good guy. So, they believe that being unassuming and self-critical makes them come off as nice and kind.

But they were already exuding red flag vibes that scare women away. They just weren't aware of it. But it comes through in the vibe.

And then, they think, "I guess women just like assholes. I need to become an asshole to get women to like me." But they were unconscious to the fact that they already were giving off asshole vibes.

And then, they become aggressive and the red flags become more overt and scare women away even more.

But they keep doubling down because they thought the issue was that they were a nice guy when they were never actually nice. 

And they will come to the conclusion, "I guess I wasn't enough of a bad boy to get sex. Let me triple down."

And the cycle repeats.

Perhaps in certain situation there are nice/bad guys who double down on the wrong paradigm. I don't think this is the pivot point what is going wrong though.

Usually there are more "knobs" to turn than the nice/bad guy knob. But in general it is not good to be a nice guy because these guys are handing out free niceness and people don't appreciate something they get for free.

In general it is better to be 100% yourself and in most cases you are not nice. It is actually better to not be nice because people will label that as "he is a guy who doesn't need to be nice so he is high value".. Yea, woman brain works like that. Probably most guys trying to bank on being fake nice and there is an inflation of fake niceness on the market.

It is better to crank up free expression aka charisma. Just telling how it is and trying out new things. Eventually you will find a shortie who will buy your bullshit.

 

Edited January 3 by AION

[Miguel1]

3 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

I think being in a place like Vegas you almost filter out materialistic, transactional, shallow women. You’d probably be blown away by the types of women you can meet in places aligned with higher values and conscious living 

Yeah.

Certainly girls coming from all over the world to Las Vegas are not going there with ”I’m looking for a good character type of man” first in mind.

Quite the opposite.

[Whitney Edwards]

Generally a high value man doesn't need to be nice in my opinion. They aren't actually. Because women are attracted to them just naturally. They have many options. They want to have the comfort of women wanting and liking them. If I were a man and a high value one, it would be against my ego to approach women. I would look down on it. I would want women to flirt with me, I would want  them to be begging my validation and in fact I would be less interested in women in general. I just imagine it that way. There's a euphoria that comes with a lot of money and fame in life. You automatically feel full of yourself, it's difficult to resist the high that comes from fame and money. I would want a woman who is very playful and makes me feel like a friend, a companion and I would simply flirt with other women for the sake of fidelity. It sounds weird but that's how I imagine myself in the shoes of a high value man (someone with money, fame, integrity, looks and success). 

Now when I think from the above perspective, men chasing or approaching women sounds so pathetic. Sorry guys. 

Edited January 3 by Buck Edwards

[Miguel1]

I agree that most women are not attracted to character. But to say that no woman is, is wrong in my opinion.

Also, the other side of the coin is that a man with good character, leads to good integrity, leads to strong frame and reality, and thus, leading to attractive traits.

For example, my integrity makes me see girls’ bullshit. It leads me to not put up with their BS. Or at least have boundaries. It makes me stand my ground. It makes me have high standards. All these are very charming traits.

And when I look them directly in their eyes with my grounded look, what do you think is generated? Starts with an A, and something we have discussed for 10 pages.

My character leads me to having a good, happy life. What do you think this does, when meeting girls?

—-

The more developed a person is, the more they are drawn to high character.

Isn’t this what this whole work is about? We want to push human development further because we resonate with it, and it calls for our souls.

All that being said, most people are tribal monkeys and full of traumas.

Edited January 3 by Miguel1