Playlist For Understanding Israel Deception

[Nemra]

@Inliytened1, I was talking about early Zionists.

[Inliytened1]

21 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Inliytened1, I was talking about early Zionists.

Same logic applies.

[Nemra]

39 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

This is a losing argument for reasons i pointed out earlier. The loss of one human being is an atrocity. You cannot put a value on it so playing the numbers game is stupid.

You literally put value on human life.

Hamas isn't going in Israel all day threatening and killing Israelis like the IDF.

Why do you think more Palestinians have been killed?

[Nemra]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Same logic applies.

It was their plan to "displace" Palestinians from the beginning.

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

That was wrong but Hamas purposely hid themselves among civilians to bait Israel.  And you also have the 1100 or whatever ( @Karmadhi will correct me here so I need to be careful)  Jews who were killed by the Palestinian backed group who wanted justice.  Did they think about that before attacking?  So they wanted to kill Jews to get rid the leadership.  Same thing.  And in fact they struck first.  Now you can claim that they are justified but violence is never justified. 

They didn’t strike first. Israel has forced 2 million (half of whom are children) inside a ghetto with a blockade so strict that half adults are unemployed and most didn’t have access to clean water, they specifically limited calories to put the population on a diet so many were malnourished. Israel periodically bombed Gaza so viciously that the majority of children had PTSD and they had the highest rate of self harm and diarrhea. Gaza had the highest proportion of child amputees. This was prior to Oct 7.

Saying they struck first is like saying when Jews in the Warsaw ghetto rose up against the Nazis the Jews struck first.

It has nothing to do with survival, in fact the Israeli government specifically funded Hamas with the express purpose of making them stronger to justify further expansion in the West Bank.

In the West Bank the PA rules there and hasn’t attacked Israel in over a decade. So the excuse of “Hamas” isn’t active. Yet more children were killed there in 2022 than any year in the second intifada. And in 2023 prior to Oct 7 it was already the deadliest year for children living there. Since Oct 7 Israel has announced the largest land seizure there in decades and settlers and IDF have killed over 700.

Oct 7 is just an excuse for them to make Gaza unlivable and complete the ethnic cleansing. Gaza is the size of Las Vegas and home to 1 million children and Israel has dropped more bombs on it than were dropped on Dresden, Britian, and Hamburg in world war 2 combined. The majority of all buildings were destroyed. Dozens of Doctors who visited Gaza who have seen many war zones said they had never seen so many children with gunshot wounds. Now Israeli media is openly talking about implementing a generals plan which calls for cutting off food, fuel, and medicine to the entire north and they’ve begun bombing residential buildings.

This serves no military purpose, Hamas does not have the resources to destroy Israel and they only pose a threat as long as the Gaza border isn’t properly guarded. 
 

Bringing up “but if hamas was in charge they’d to the same to Israel” is irrelevant, they aren’t in charge and won’t be of Israel. Prior to Zionism Palestinians lived peacefully with Jews for centuries and didn’t even have an army by the way. Radical groups like Hamas only formed because Zionist’s killed thousands of Palestinians, and expelled hundreds of thousands from their homes and locked them in ghettos where they continued to brutally occupy them. 
 

You are just making absurd rationalizations for what Israel is doing.

Edited October 25, 2024 by Raze

[Inliytened1]

@Raze you really think it's that simple and one sided?  You really think that Hamas just mystically appeared out of nowhere because of Israel's devilry?  OK.   I'll buy that one if you buy Trump is a saint.

Edited October 25, 2024 by Inliytened1

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Raze you really think it's that simple and one sided?  You really think that Hamas just mystically appeared out of nowhere because of Israel's devilry?  OK.  

No, I’m saying that the security excuse is just an excuse for them to continue expanding which actually hurts their security, as seen in how historically they keep expanding and their security gets worse.

The former prime minister of Israel Ehud Barak himself said if he was Palestinian he’d be a terrorist. 

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Raze said:

No, I’m saying that the security excuse is just an excuse for them to continue expanding which actually hurts their security, as seen in how historically they keep expanding and their security gets worse.

The former prime minister of Israel Ehud Barak himself said if he was Palestinian he’d be a terrorist. 

The reality of it is from their perspective there is a threat whether or not Hamas has the ability to destroy them completely they have the ability with other allies to do damage.  They are just protecting by expanding.

 

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

The reality of it is from their perspective there is a threat whether or not Hamas has the ability to destroy them completely they have the ability with other allies to do damage.  They are just protecting by expanding.

 

Again they themselves said they were funding Hamas specifically to sabotage a peaceful settlement 

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Raze said:

Again they themselves said they were funding Hamas specifically to sabotage a peaceful settlement 

From Wikipedia:

Assertions of Israeli support for Hamas date back to the late 1970s and early 1980s, a period marked by significant political upheaval in the Middle East. Former Israeli officials have openly acknowledged Israel's role in providing funding and assistance to Hamas as a means of undermining secular Palestinian factions such as the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). Brigadier General Yitzhak Segev, who served as the Israeli military governor in Gaza during the early 1980s, admitted to providing financial assistance to Mujama Al-Islamiya.

Who were the PLO ?

From Wikipedia:

Founded in 1964, it initially sought to establish an Arab state over the entire territory of the former Mandatory Palestine, advocating the elimination of Israel. 

[Raze]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

From Wikipedia:

Assertions of Israeli support for Hamas date back to the late 1970s and early 1980s, a period marked by significant political upheaval in the Middle East. Former Israeli officials have openly acknowledged Israel's role in providing funding and assistance to Hamas as a means of undermining secular Palestinian factions such as the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). Brigadier General Yitzhak Segev, who served as the Israeli military governor in Gaza during the early 1980s, admitted to providing financial assistance to Mujama Al-Islamiya.

Who were the PLO ?

From Wikipedia:

Founded in 1964, it initially sought to establish an Arab state over the entire territory of the former Mandatory Palestine, advocating the elimination of Israel. 

I’m referring to the more recent support of Hamas through transferring funds.

That was the PLO at their founding, they later acknowledged Israel’s existence and ceased armed resistance. 

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, Raze said:

I’m referring to the more recent support of Hamas through transferring funds.

That was the PLO at their founding, they later acknowledged Israel’s existence and ceased armed resistance. 

Do you realize how absurd you sound to say that Israel funded and planned the killing of its own women and children to justify it's own expansion?  You really believe that?

Edited October 25, 2024 by Inliytened1

[Raze]

11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Do you realize how absurd you sound to say that Israel funded and planned the killing of its own women and children to justify it's own expansion?  You really believe that?

Them funding Hamas is confirmed.

I don’t think they wanted Oct 7 to happen, but they clearly wanted Hamas to do something so they have an excuse to respond. They admitted to punishing Gazas population, then they funded Hamas, and they’ve talked about how they call it “mowing the lawn” to just take a small loss then mass kill Palestinians every few years all the while they expand and expand. 

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Raze said:

Them funding Hamas is confirmed.

I don’t think they wanted Oct 7 to happen, but they clearly wanted Hamas to do something so they have an excuse to respond. They admitted to punishing Gazas population, then they funded Hamas, and they’ve talked about how they call it “mowing the lawn” to just take a small loss then mass kill Palestinians every few years all the while they expand and expand. 

They funded them to avoid such attacks not to have them happen.  That was the only motive. Any other motive that you want to call out is speculation and beyond that actually false. 

 

Edited October 25, 2024 by Inliytened1

[Raze]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

They funded them to avoid such attacks not to have them happen.  That was the only motive. Any other motive that you want to call out is speculation and beyond that actually false. 

 

So blockading the population to the point where they can’t even receive necessary medical and food supplies is necessary for security but directly funneling money to Hamas, which was the whole excuse for the blocker, and is a group which has attacked and never said they would stop using armed resistance is also necessary for security? How does that make sense?

Meanwhile Israel’s entire history is filled with instances of provoking an attack followed by using it as an excuse to expand or punish civilians.

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Raze said:

 

Meanwhile Israel’s entire history is filled with instances of provoking an attack followed by using it as an excuse to expand or punish civilians.

Don't even go there unless you wanna get banned. Leo will reverse it though.  So I guess your fine.  He's a Hitler lover. 

 

Edited October 25, 2024 by Inliytened1

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Don't even go there unless you wanna get banned. Leo will reverse it though.  So I guess your fine.  He's a Hitler lover. 

 

Multiple IDF generals and Israeli historians have themselves admitted this

[Gennadiy1981]

21 hours ago, Lyubov said:

Dude, stop projecting. Every jew like you wants to cry victim and claim antisemitism the moment you guys are held accountable for your ethnic cleansing in Palestine. The entire community is steeped in this victim level thinking, zero responsiblity, just wanting to cry about being persecuted and not looking at any reasons why they are in the situation they are in. No dude, I do not self hate that I am jewish and none of my identity is wrapped up in rejecting judaism nor is it associated with any issues from relatives mistreating me. In fact I cherish my American-Jewish roots and loved every moment associated with them growing up. I do not associate persecution with judaism which is what most Jews do. I don't like that I have to explain sometimes to people that I don't support Israel and bombing kids and killing thousands upon thousands of civilians and ethnically cleaning stolen land like the IDF has been doing shamelessly since the 1940s.

You are so lost in delusion you are not worth having a lengthy discussion with. I'm honestly surprised you found your way to this community. You believe you are entitled to steal land and ethnically cleans people from it who inhabited it longer than you by over a thousand years because your bible says you can. Just mirroring back your belief to you.

Thanks @Lyubov for such detail answer, I really appreciate it, you know what I appreciate so much in you, your honesty, I give you so much pride and respect for being so honest. I am deeply honest myself and I can truly appreciate someone being honest. By the way; you misunderstood about myself, I am not screaming victim hood, I am not complaining or kvetching, I am a very proud Jew who is very proud of my culture and my people and my land. 
 

I hear you, and I hear your point. See I am on the other hand have no shame or guilt. I am not crying that I want peace with Palestinians and compare to most Israelis who don’t want to give West Bank to Palestinians but cry that they do and give excuses. I am being flat, I want all of Israel and I also care for Palestinians to be happy in one of their Arab country. I say it open and I also do things to make sure Palestine will not be created inside Israel. But I am very blunt and very honest, what I say, I think and do is all and the same.

But I really appreciate your response, I truly do, cause compare to mainstream secular Jews, I will say something that is not so popular, but they do play game. I don’t play any game, I am blunt and starlight to the point. And what brought me to this community, is a deep spiritual thinking and completing. And one more thing, I hope you or anyone else gets me wrong. God forbid that you may think I hate Arabs. That is totally not true. I have deep respect for all humans and I love all humans. It’s just I know that unfortunately Jews and Arabs cannot coexist in one country no matter how we slice the cake, you can’t have two ethnicities running the show, it will eventually turn into a civil war. Compare to others, yes you may have people with racist beliefs. That does not apply to me, it’s religious issue that is at stake there. 

[Gennadiy1981]

12 hours ago, MrTruf said:

This is the only time I will address you.

I did not and will not engage you, that's why you weren't tagged. I was sharing my impressions with other forum members.

You are not worth a second of anyones time. You are only allowed to write this shit here as an example for others how incredibly blind one can get with his twisted ideology.  Every message you send only pushes people further away from the argument you're trying to make. Keep posting!

 

It's not working.

@MrTruf it’s always nice to hear from you. Welcome back by the way, I already figured out who you are, indeed you are returning member who was blocked on political forum. You think I forgot you? Besides we used to have good conversations back then. And remember you even ended up my friend. 
 

It’s ok I will keep your identity as a secret. It’s hidden with me. But nice try by the way and welcome back. 
 

and you know how I figured? It is because I do deep epistemological work and psychedelics my friend. 
 

[Lyubov]

9 hours ago, Vercingetorix said:

how this align with the facts (and correct me if I'm wrong) that:
1) there was no country named Palestine here, it was always a land part of an empire (even under Jordanian and Egyptian control they were not given a country). Palestinians always lived under another's rule, so there is no difference for them if they live under Israel rule - and as we see today with Israel's 21% of Arab population that are pretty happy to live here.
2) Israelis accepted the UN decision for two states and only after The Arab countries tries to annihilate it a few times seized control of Gaza and West Bank and started the so called "Ethnic cleansing")
3) Zionists also accepted Peel commission plans that gave the Arabs 80% of the Land in 1937!
4)Israel were willing to Give Sinai back to Egypt, and withdraw from Gaza

1) You are right, there was no modern state of Palestine there, how countries and self determination are understood today was still forming then. The land was controlled by the British and then the Ottoman empire, but had native indigenous people (Palestinians) as the majority living on the land, since the roman empire. There even were indigenous jews who were a minority there and whose lineage went back to the roman empire. These are not to be confused with zionist jews who were Eastern European jews (Ashkenazi Jews) removed from Palestine by 2000 years, their entire lineage is based outside Palestine for 2000 years, 1000 in Europe alone. In what reasonable modern world does that give them a right to Palestine because their book tells them so? European refugees from WWII moved there during the Holocaust and Israel was largely allowed to stay due to pity from Truman and Russia as well as having a newly established ally state there after the British left. There are a lot of jews in the USA to lobby the US government foreign policy, that is democracy. I think it's pretty clear that the forming of a nation state is accepted and indigenous people have the right to determination if their history goes back thousands of years on a land. I do not see how modern European Jews can make a claim to land they are removed from by hundreds of generations. Since Israel was formed, jews from all over the middle east and world have since immigrated so it isn't just Ashkenazi Jews now. Some Arabs maybe are fine with living under Israel, there are millions in Gaza and the west bank who aren't and want to return to the land taken from them. 

2) Arab countries then did not accept the UN resolution and Israel because it was freshly stolen land. Why would they negotiate with people who clearly took their land? Why should they yield? Time has changed things since then so totally dismantling and getting rid of Israel is not feasible now. And relations with Jordan and Egypt helped move towards a two state solution but the powerful 10%+ of radical nationalists in Israel do not allow for this to occur. They kill any politicians that come to the table.

3) Again, Arab leaders did not want their land divided, they were under no obligation to just allow territory of theirs carved off. Do I think there could of been a more welcoming stance towards refugees and a protection of minorities under Arab rule there? Sure. 

4) Ok, now west bank, east Jerusalem, Golan heights and all other territories, plus the dismantling of the system/blockade that has made gaza and these Palestinian places an open air prison