Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[Verg0]

@OMG You gotta do all of it and see for yourself either way. 

Changing course on this path is very natural. 

[Nemra]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Psychedelics are important, but they are easy compared to weeks of nonstop meditation.

So, what makes weeks-long meditation different or better than psychedelics?

If I can easily compare them, how should I decide which one to choose?

[koops]

Speaking about bullshit:

 

[ExploringReality]

Leo have you experienced after so much personal development and spiritual work, an indecisiveness of reading books? I know I have a bookshelf full of self help and spiritual Gold but I can't read them all at once and I have ADHD. I just want to swallow all of my books. Is there anything that can help, or something that can ground me. Maybe I came into this work too fast too much all at once and I feel stifled. There is so much to learn, integrate that it can feel overwhelming.

Edited July 5 by ExploringReality

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, OMG said:

but then you tout hardcore long week meditation retreats and now its self inquiry. Which is it?

Self-inquiry and hardcore retreats are the same thing.

The two most powerful technique are: 1) Psychedelics, and 2) Hardcore solo retreats.

That's what I've said for a long time.

For self-inquiry to be effective it has to be done in the middle of a hardcore retreat.

Edited July 5 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

an indecisiveness of reading books?

Can't relate. It's hard for me to find books that have enough depth to add to my understanding.

Just read what interests you most.

[OBEler]

On 4.7.2025 at 7:40 AM, AstralProjection said:

This is so sad. She should try a phenethylamine like peyote or san pedro mescaline for healing. It can help her become social again and climb that narrative latter again. 5-meo-dmt wasn't meant for people like her. One day science will evolve to the point where we'll be able to leave our bodies go inward to the upper echelons of the spirit dimensions where we can meet the prophets Jesus Buddha Krishna etc. You all need to have faith that there's more to this spiritual thing than what 5-meo-dmt shows. In the future we will have a wide diet of spiritual tools and psychedelics that will show us many more dimensions to this spiritual thing. Spirituality is way bigger than just 5-meo-dmt. Study from avid astral projectors, learn from NDEs, study what Jesus actually said not what the church teaches. there's way more out there than just solipsism. Just focusing on 5-meo-dmt is like only eating meat. There's a whole variety of diets, foods, herbs, meats and even drugs, Unfortunately technology won't find spirituality and really make it reliable for another several decades. Until then you have to believe. Believe the NDEs, believe Jesus. And go on an adventure to climb the narrative hierarchy. 

No you are projecting a lot of stuff into her.  5 Meo was the best thing she ever did. It was freeing her from a lot of delusions. It was the most healing experience. She is not sad at all. And no she doesn't focus on 5 Meo or Solipsim, she does many other things. Yeah spirituality has a lot of variety, including a lot of bullshit. She knows now better.

 

Edited July 5 by OBEler

[Nemra]

8 hours ago, Nemra said:

So, what makes weeks-long meditation different or better than psychedelics?

If I can easily compare them, how should I decide which one to choose?

@Leo Gura, I really want to understand what makes me unserious if I can get the same quality of results or experience with a method that is more powerful in a shorter span.

There needs to be something different that the other methods you mentioned offer that I could never achieve with psychedelics so that I must do them if I want other results.

Edited July 5 by Nemra

[Daniel Balan]

Hi @Leo Gura! The user @Xonas Pitfallmessaged me on twitter saying that he lost access to his forum account! He tried changing his email that was associated with the account, and ended up losing access to the account entirely! Please help him regain access! 

Edited July 5 by Daniel Balan

[Cocolove]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

For self-inquiry to be effective it has to be done in the middle of a hardcore retreat.

I definitely agree but like any technique the daily practice helps prepare you. I've also only ever had an awakening from kriya yoga on a hardcore retreat. But yea self inquiry without a certain level of concentration and consciousness is pretty useless.

 

I'm taking a break from psychedelics, like 2 months in right now. I'm more focusing on raising my baseline level of consciousness while I'm in the bodymind, going to do a 10 day vipassana soon. I think this is an important foundation for long-term psychedelic exploration to be safe and effective. Meditation without psychedelics can get you nowhere after many years, but psychedelics without raising your level of consciousness and purifying the pain-body can be destabilizing, dangerous, and really just won't get you to the same insights. I know so many people who don't do consciousness work and they get so lost in random symbolism and meaning from psychedelics, they learn practical and deep things, but it certainly isn't deconstructing their reality because they have no reference for that. I've always had the deepest awakenings tripping after months of deep meditation.

[ExploringReality]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Can't relate. It's hard for me to find books that have enough depth to add to my understanding.

Just read what interests you most.

My desire to explore reality and alter my state of consciousness is the only thing that matters to me. I have personal development books, and I also have incredibly deep consciousness and spirituality books. I know ego development is important, but exploring consciousness and having breathtaking experiences, integrating the insights is the only thing that interests me. I am still struggling as to create and share value for others in a marketable way that is sustainable.

I love just reading the best books on your Booklist on spirituality, psychedelics, meditation, epistemology and just go super deep on Awakening. Any advice, I have taken the course, I come back to it but I'm still split and want to bring my purpose and passion into the real world. i want to make it actual. I'm lost, I know I can see clearer. 

Edited July 5 by ExploringReality

[Davino]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Psychedelics are important, but they are easy compared to weeks of nonstop meditation.

Depends on the trip and on the substance, but yeah usually the grind is harder.

[ZenSwift]

16 hours ago, ExploringReality said:

Leo have you experienced after so much personal development and spiritual work, an indecisiveness of reading books? I know I have a bookshelf full of self help and spiritual Gold but I can't read them all at once and I have ADHD. I just want to swallow all of my books. Is there anything that can help, or something that can ground me. Maybe I came into this work too fast too much all at once and I feel stifled. There is so much to learn, integrate that it can feel overwhelming.

Can relate in terms of the ADHD thing: I buy all the books, then proceed to read none of them ever. 

 

Edited July 5 by ZenSwift

[Infinite Tsukuyomi]

Firstly, don't forget that you must deconstruct even Leo, this is what I'm seeing that is being missed with all the questions about what is better, what is worse, what's it going to take, goalposts moving. We're talking about Infinity, you have to try all kinds of shit. It's tempting to lean on him or on anything, the mind is very sneaky and is hiding from all the work whether it be trips or retreats. 

Secondly, keep the main thing the main thing. Pick something and use it until it drives you insane. 

The DMTs are crucial imo. "No self/no doer" alone, will motivate the hell out of you and the DMTs will either produce this outright, or if you're like me it will catch you off guard later on. 

I did a meditation retreat even after my 5-MeO, NN DMT and Psilocybin work. Frustration, boredom, laziness and procrastination are all TRICKS, of course you feel these. Of course, you're questioning what's effective and what isn't, who do you think supplies you with these questions? The fog of deception is so thick, you damn near have a heart attack when it clears. 

During the long sessions and retreats, I gain awareness around how my mind uses EVERYTHING to avoid dissolution. I combine mindfulness with labeling with neti neti and let EVERYTHING slip through. For those with ADHD (like me), I had to become a puppet. I danced until the "me" vanished. I surrendered control entirely and just let awareness do the work. And it did.

More so than just laziness and avoidance of pain, that can be overcome when you're really after Truth. The mind doesn’t want to die.
It will hold on to Leo, to his videos, to this forum, to that one juicy insight, even to the cushion your ass is sitting on. Jed McKenna style, Neti Neti, labeling experiences as they appear and setting every idea of God, Truth, Infinity and Love on fire as the appear is a must. Your mind will become conscious of "something" at some point, that will terrify it. Look back at it, you have triangulated Truth but do not wait for, or expect this moment. (easier said than done) 

In some sense, just doing psychedelics then running off into survival and hallucination makes no sense if you're serious about the work. Unless you have a closet full of 5-MeO or some other substance, why settle for the continual deception and unconsciousness of daily life? Might as well wear the mind out, the target of inquiry is available 24/7. 

 

 

[ExploringReality]

26 minutes ago, ZenSwift said:

Can relate in terms of the ADHD thing: I buy all the books, then proceed to read none of them ever. 

 

Yes. I have read many of them, but now it's weirdly challenging to just sit the fuck down and start reading. Like my mind is distracting me or Im lured ino self deceptions 

[ExploringReality]

LSD combined with listening to sri nissargahdata and Ramana maharashi guided meditation and talks is a transformative. Leo thank you for your blog post on sri nissargahdata's I AM teaching, it really lit a fire under my ass to do this work.

Edited July 5 by ExploringReality

[Natasha Tori Maru]

6 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

Yes. I have read many of them, but now it's weirdly challenging to just sit the fuck down and start reading. Like my mind is distracting me or Im lured ino self deceptions 

This was a phase I went through 10 or so years back. I don't have much advice, but I was severe on myself 😈 I confined myself to a room, no phone. No music. Nothing to distract but me and the book. 

The trick is being fantastic at deceiving yourself! I convinced myself outside that room was a radioactive wasteland. If I went out - instant rip. 

It was some strange method of forced focus. I got so good at pretending, it also had a strange fallout effect of enhancing my ability to identify delusions. Especially romantic ones, I fall prey to those little fantasies 😬

It took 3 months of that nonsense behaviour to make my brain crave the linear process of a book.

[Oppositionless]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Self-inquiry and hardcore retreats are the same thing.

The two most powerful technique are: 1) Psychedelics, and 2) Hardcore solo retreats.

That's what I've said for a long time.

For self-inquiry to be effective it has to be done in the middle of a hardcore retreat.

The only psychedelic I've found that works for me is DMT, which I don't have regular access too. Mushrooms and lsd are pretty much just recreational drugs to me at this point, so I'm committed to doing more hardcore meditation retreats . At my first one I got my first big awakening since I did dmt 2 1/2 years ago.

[aurum]

Finally got around to the David Pinsof political video. Some thoughts:

First off, it was very good. Pinsof gets a lot right about of political situation and how we rationalize our positions to fit our needs. I felt the bit about moralization was particuarlly insightful.

The only real critiques I would have of Pinsof are that a) he flattens development and b) he does not understand a perspective beyond evolution.

Flattening development is problematic because it assumes that everyone bullshits equally, and that some values are not actually higher than others. Rather, he just assumes equal development and that any perceived differences in development are just more rationalizations. So his perspective becomes reductionistic.

Not understanding anything beyond evolution is also a problem, because then your worldview must be based in materialism. Evolutionary psychology becomes your sense-making box you try to force everything into. But of course materialism itself is untrue, and evolutionary psychology is just a subset of materialism.

[Oppositionless]

Meditation is harder, psychedelics  are scarier.

 

I wonder if you do a lot of meditation retreats you can hone your psychic ability. I want to go to the casino lmao.

Edited July 6 by Oppositionless