Jews genocide

[royce]

1 minute ago, Heaven said:

Are u trolling? Because your humor isn’t funny 

3 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

This is exactly the reason why people dream of you being dead. Because you are so frustrating

yes i am

[Emerald]

13 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@royce What is going on here is that the Palestinians in the end of the day get unproportionally easier "pass" to their actions because they are, in average, less evolved so they being treated like a child, whereas the Israelis are being demanded for full responsibility, also unproportionally, out of their more evolved position. 

But this paradigm is very limited and even almost completely false because the more evolved side cannot control nor educate the less evolved one, and therefore cannot be holded as more responsible then him in an atmosphere of conflict, beside a little bit because he can manage better his emotions, but also only a little better. In a family for example, this is different because the less evolved side wants to hear.

Also, the less evolved one is NOT less smart in his ability to turn day into night if this helps him to survive, and people overlook this too, because in survival we are all equally smart, and therefore do not understand the sophisticated ways it uses to achieve its goal.

In the past, Western imperialist powers would justify their dominance and colonization over other peoples under the guise of bringing civilization to the uncivilized people.... which is very similar to your idea of being the more evolved ones in comparison to the less evolved ones.

And it was a way to get more liberal-minded (gullible) people to get on board with colonization, exploitation, slavery, wars, etc.

In America, the gullible liberal types eventually caught wise... and realized that it was based in ideas of racial/ethnic supremacy.

So, now America says "We're bringing Democracy to the region." which sufficiently fools the gullible liberal types into supporting colonization, regime change, wars, etc.

You are doing the same thing in this... and characterizing Israelis as more evolved than Palestinians.

But that is just another method you're using to get rid of your cognitive dissonance and find justification for the fact that the government associated with your cherished national/religious identity is committing a genocide.

So, you can see the mote in Palestinians' eyes but you can not see the giant log in the eyes of Israel and the IDF. Let go of your self-bias and you will see it more clearly.

If it were some other country doing what the IDF is doing... and they were doing it to some other non-Palestinian group... I'm pretty certain it would stick out to you like a sore thumb that a genocide is going on and that it's quite deliberate.

[Twentyfirst]

5 hours ago, Heaven said:

This is a perfect example of the reason I started this post. There is something extremely hateful and dangerous towards Israelis/Jewish people. 
We are in a point that everyone should be very careful with his comments. I don’t see a place for more hateful speech towards any race. It happened to black people, gay people. It took a lot of time for humanity to see how unfair this is. I thought the holocaust was a wake up call but obviously I was wrong.

Your post is the equivalent of making fun of sandy hook. Taking a serious thing and being disrespectful about it. Imagine if the sandy hook shooter complained that he didn't feel safe. How is what I said more hateful than what you said. Would you rather me go along with the BS

The Jews are committing genocide yet you are asking why genocide is being committed against Jews. Absurd 

Edited March 29 by Twentyfirst

[Thought Art]

14 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@royce What is going on here is that the Palestinians in the end of the day get unproportionally easier "pass" to their actions because they are, in average, less evolved so they being treated like a child, whereas the Israelis are being demanded for full responsibility, also unproportionally, out of their more evolved position. 

But this paradigm is very limited and even almost completely false because the more evolved side cannot control nor educate the less evolved one, and therefore cannot be holded as more responsible then him in an atmosphere of conflict, beside a little bit because he can manage better his emotions, but also only a little better. In a family for example, this is different because the less evolved side wants to hear.

Also, the less evolved one is NOT less smart in his ability to turn day into night if this helps him to survive, and people overlook this too, because in survival we are all equally smart, and therefore do not understand the sophisticated ways it uses to achieve its goal.

No. Most people were against the Hamas attacks. 
 

My views is most people in most nations want most humans to live free of fear of death, free of fear, and to live safely. That is my wish that Israel is a safe place to live and that Israeli’s are safe. 

The killing, destruction and suffering implemented that Israel has done to Palestinians is disproportionate. Most people in most nations are against murdering, killing and genocide of innocent people. 
 

People are generally against the killing of innocent people regardless of their nationality. 

People see what Israel is doing to HUMAN lives. People don’t want child, women, and non- militant men to starve to death, be shot, bombed and murdered. People want international law to be followed.

It has nothing to do with viewing them as a lesser form of human. That’s what Israel is doing when they shoot and bomb indiscriminately based on the videos and photos. 

Edited March 29 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

5 hours ago, Heaven said:

This is a perfect example of the reason I started this post. There is something extremely hateful and dangerous towards Israelis/Jewish people. 
We are in a point that everyone should be very careful with his comments. I don’t see a place for more hateful speech towards any race. It happened to black people, gay people. It took a lot of time for humanity to see how unfair this is. I thought the holocaust was a wake up call but obviously I was wrong.

Even happened to Palestinian children and people. 
 

There are forum guidelines. You deserve to be treated with respect on the forum. 

Edited March 29 by Thought Art

[Nivsch]

@Emerald It can't be genocide under the killed ratio of 1 hamas member to 1.5 civilian when we know that the main hamas strategy is to hide behind civilians otherwise it has no chance against an organized army, therefore this strategy is in its DNA.

You can say there is a collective punishment, or an unjust damage to Gaza etc. But genocide it isn't.

The colonization narrative is false because it assumes that a stranger was parachuted onto an originally Arab land what isn't true at all because we know that for many centuries Jews and Arabs lived in this land together, along with the fact that most of the palestinians been here in 1948 came to the region as work immigrant during the last 2 centuries under the Ottoman rule.

The differences in the developmemt I mentioned weren't to justify problems happening in Gaza but to explain why the west fails to distribute correctly the responsibility between Israel and Palestine when using those differences as an excuse to demand responsibility from almost only one side in the broad dynamic of the conflict along with the current situation's deeper causes.

Edited March 29 by Nivsch

[zazen]

@Nivsch True, even if people expect more of Israel as they are more developed the point is under international law all parties are equal subjects to the law. Even by international law - a occupying power has more obligations to those it occupies. When someone has more resources and rights than another group that usually comes with more responsibility and expectation - international law attempts to equalise that to an extent.

Forced expulsion, displacement and creating uninhabitable conditions for a group in their homeland can all constitute "deliberately inflicting conditions calculated to destroy the group" under the genocide definition from the UN Geneva convention. Its one thing to go after Hamas, but the entirety of Gaza is being levelled to the ground and food crops and plants being grazed and uprooted - which means it is uninhabitable. 

Collective punishment can tend to sound like a casual slap on the wrist for being naughty but when it becomes the intentional eradication or expulsion of a people it starts to fall under the banner of genocide. Also, genocide doesn't have to be written in state policy for it to be true - of course it won't be. Check the video below:

The argument that warning civilians before destroying their home makes a nation moral is also false. Whilst that definitely minimises loss of physical life, that home was part of someones life. People get upset when they lose or damage their belongings - imagine them losing their homes with no insurance to re-home them. Being warned their about to lose their home is like a robber warning someone he's about to rob them - it doesn't make it any better and in fact is traumatising. 

Edited March 29 by zazen

[Thought Art]

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@Emerald It can't be genocide under the killed ratio of 1 hamas member to 1.5 civilian when we know that the main hamas strategy is to hide behind civilians otherwise it has no chance against an organized army, therefore this strategy is in its DNA.

 

Many nations think your ratio is false. Many civilians have died. And 500,00 are on the brink of famine. 

Edited March 29 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

The differences in the developmemt I mentioned weren't to justify problems happening in Gaza but to explain why the west fails to distribute correctly the responsibility between Israel and Palestine when using those differences as an excuse to demand responsibility from almost only one side in the broad dynamic of the conflict along with the current situation's deeper causes.

Supposedly Palestine was a metropolitan area before with a rich and diverse culture before it was occupied by Israel 70 years ago or what have you.

Again, as was Canada and the US, both of these countries have blood on their hands when it comes to the destruction of indigenous populations and their rich cultures. However, the history of Israel and the land surrounding it is something i know little of.

Edited March 29 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

You can say there is a collective punishment, or an unjust damage to Gaza etc. But genocide it isn't.

 

Collective punishment is still disgusting. Starving babies? Mothers with all their children and families dead?

Of course this could happen on both ends with organizations like Hamas around. Events in Oct cannot be forgotten.

Edited March 29 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

@Nivsch If you would like to send me some news sources that share different perspectives I’d be grateful as well. 
 

For example, this video here: 

this type of media is very different perspective than what the west shows. Which, makes sense . 
 

My favourite part was when they show a Palestinian woman in front of all this rubble claiming she thanked the Israeli military for destroying Hamas. That makes me wonder 😂

Edited March 29 by Thought Art

[Danioover9000]

@Thought Art

3 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@Nivsch If you would like to send me some news sources that share different perspectives I’d be grateful as well. 
 

For example, this video here: 

this type of media is very different perspective than what the west shows. Which, makes sense . 
 

My favourite part was when they show a Palestinian woman in front of all this rubble claiming she thanked the Israeli military for destroying Hamas. That makes me wonder 😂

   Great example of propaganda, misinformation, and narrative manipulation via parsing news and information to suit your and your group's biases and agendas.

[Nivsch]

28 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Thought Art

   Great example of propaganda, misinformation, and narrative manipulation via parsing news and information to suit your and your group's biases and agendas.

Bias = A magic word you can always run towards when feeling uncomfortable.

Edited March 29 by Nivsch

[Thought Art]

7 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Bias = A magic word you can always run towards when feeling uncomfortable.

Yes, you could misuse it that way. You could, someone else could. 
 

But, you also have biases that are deeply obvious to others which you can’t see or refuse to look at.

Edited March 29 by Thought Art

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Thought Art said:

My favourite part was when they show a Palestinian woman in front of all this rubble claiming she thanked the Israeli military for destroying Hamas. That makes me wonder 😂

I understand that nobody will hurry to like a stranger invader who destroy your home even if he liberates you from years of harsh living under a terror organization rule. Life is complex.

Edited March 29 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

5 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

But, you also have biases that are deeply obvious to others which you can’t see or refuse to look at.

Of course I have, show me some that you think of and we can talk if you want.

Edited March 29 by Nivsch

[Thought Art]

@Nivsch No idea what you mean 

[Thought Art]

@Nivsch For example, bias towards the media you call true or false. How would you know?

How do you know there isn’t an Israeli propaganda machine and the west is simply observing what is happening, with a humanitarian  bias? How do you know for sure? Of course this is more nuanced, but try to grasp the kernel I point at.

How do you know the things you were taught in school were even true and not deeply riddled with survival bias?

It is I Canada and the US. Why not in Israel?

Edited March 29 by Thought Art

[Nivsch]

4 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Nivsch For example, bias towards the media you call true or false. How would you know?

How do you know there isn’t an Israeli propaganda machine and the west is simply observing what is happening, with a humanitarian  bias? How do you know for sure?

Yes every media will tend to show things it is comfortable with and weaken the importance of the content it uncomfortable with. Though not to the same degree. But I agree with you in that you can never rely on one source.

Edited March 29 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, zazen said:

@Nivsch

Forced expulsion, displacement and creating uninhabitable conditions for a group in their homeland can all constitute "deliberately inflicting conditions calculated to destroy the group" under the genocide definition from the UN Geneva convention. Its one thing to go after Hamas, but the entirety of Gaza is being levelled to the ground and food crops and plants being grazed and uprooted - which means it is uninhabitable. 

Collective punishment can tend to sound like a casual slap on the wrist for being naughty but when it becomes the intentional eradication or expulsion of a people it starts to fall under the banner of genocide. Also, genocide doesn't have to be written in state policy for it to be true - of course it won't be. Check the video below:

This is too indirect and interpreted. When you have a psychological assumption about the other side you think you know how it thinks, but this is not how it thinks but how you think about him. I think that Israelis would never do a genocide because I live with Israelis from birth.

Edited March 29 by Nivsch