Leo you misunderstand Hitler completely

[Bobby_2021]

Quote

was hitler conservative or liberal? 

Adolf Hitler's political views were neither conservative nor liberal in the traditional sense. Hitler and the Nazi Party promoted a form of far-right politics with elements of ethnic nationalism, anti-Semitism, and authoritarianism[3][5]. While some aspects of Nazi ideology, such as social conservatism and rejection of liberal democracy, align with conservative views, Hitler's regime was fundamentally totalitarian and dictatorial, not adhering to traditional conservative principles[3]. Hitler's ideology was a unique blend of extreme nationalism, racism, and anti-communism, which deviated significantly from both liberal and conservative ideologies[2][3]. Therefore, it is more accurate to characterize Hitler as a far-right authoritarian figure rather than fitting neatly into the categories of conservative or liberal.

Citations:
[1] Nazism - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
[2] Adolf Hitler - Nazi Leader, WW2, Germany | Britannica https://www.britannica.com/biography/Adolf-Hitler/Rise-to-power
[3] Political views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Adolf_Hitler
[4] Adolf Hitler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
[5] Hitler Comes to Power: How, When, & Key Dates | Holocaust Encyclopedia https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/hitler-comes-to-power
 

Perplexity AI, not sure what's the exact model, has this to say. 

Just that it aligns with conservative values and visions. 

Edited March 28 by Bobby_2021

[mmKay]

@OBEler It's not an oversimplification, it's a congruent elaboration of the trajectory of Nazi ideology. It doesn't matter that Hitler himself wasn't blonde with blue eyes.

Absolute logical coherence is not a requisite for ideology and close-mindedness.

Even if not historically  accurate, the movies and videogames are congruent with the ideology. Again, it doesn't matter that the absolute extreme or his ideology didn't manage to happen. It was clearly headed in that direction . So the movies and videogames are valid

 

Yes, they would salivate at the idea of killing 6 billion people in the sake of racial purity  including 80% of their own people to make an ultra pure race

That sounds like a Nazi wet dream 

What are you defending? It sounds like you are cherry picking the noble parts of Nazism and downplaying the atrocities 

Edited March 28 by mmKay

[Alexop]

On 3/26/2024 at 0:05 PM, OBEler said:

Hitler was not conservative. You probably consumed propaganda. Just hear original Hitler speeches like this one

 

Hitler said you should have respect of the past but you should not identify with it (big difference !!). You should respect their achievements but that should not mean that what they did is still good.

Hitler said, It is good to build up from ancestors achievements but then put your own will into it. So just copy what the ancestors did is utterly stupid.

A conservative would never said that.

Hitler: Nationalsocialism is based on biological insights and not on ancient tradition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Words are just words, what he did is just to create basic stage red-blue ideological state. Is North Korea pregressive? Because progressive is the opposite of conservative. An egomaniac is conservative by nature, he conserves the egotistical beliefs and behaviours that hauted the past for thosuands of years, read history and you'll see that what he did is nothing new.

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, OBEler said:

"Nazism represents an extreme, authoritarian form of fascist nationalism that defies placement on the standard left-right political spectrum, where liberalism and conservatism typically reside."

Fascism and nationalism are right-wing and conservative. So this statement contradicts itself and your own prior admission that Nazism is right-wing.

Right-wing means conservative. Stop playing games.

Nazism is also illiberal. Don't overlook that basic point.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

@OBEler

8 minutes ago, OBEler said:

It didn't say clearly that it was conservative.just that it was NOT liberal.

Please refer to Nazism in Hitler Germany because today's Nazism is different.

I asked the same question chatgpt4 with reference to Hitler Germany.

"Nazism, as embodied by Adolf Hitler's regime in Germany, is neither liberal nor conservative in the terms commonly used in contemporary political discourse, especially if we consider the broad and often differing definitions of liberalism and conservatism across different countries and historical periods. Instead, Nazism, or National Socialism, is classified as a far-right, totalitarian, and fascist ideology.

Key characteristics of Nazism include extreme nationalism, racial supremacy, the promotion of racial purity, anti-Semitism, anti-communism, the rejection of democracy, and the belief in the need for a dictatorial leader. The Nazi movement sought radical change, aiming to completely overhaul the existing social, political, and economic order to establish a totalitarian state that emphasized racial hierarchy, militarism, and territorial expansion.

In contrast, traditional conservatism generally seeks to preserve social institutions and values, emphasizing stability, tradition, and a gradual approach to change. Contemporary liberalism, particularly in the Western context, champions individual rights, equality, democracy, and often a degree of social and economic intervention by the state to address inequalities.

Therefore, categorizing Nazism within the conventional liberal-conservative spectrum is misleading. The essence of Nazi ideology is fundamentally at odds with the principles of both liberalism and conservatism as understood in modern political contexts. Nazism represents an extreme, authoritarian form of fascist nationalism that defies placement on the standard left-right political spectrum, where liberalism and conservatism typically reside."

   I think I understand where you're coming from. This like when I and few others had to deal with people hating on GB for no reason, white guilt us and say my country is king colonialism controlling a third of the world and how we're all racists and enable slavery. Then I have to point out that actually GB ended slavery and is anti slavery for 1,000 years, having to fight off the Arab slave trade in Africa, and even imposed economic sanctions on countries that had slavery business going on.

 

[OBEler]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Fascism and nationalism are right-wing and conservative.

Nope. Fascism and nationalism are Right-wing, but Not conservative.

You can ask your woke Claude if you need to help to understand.

conservatism has its own unique characteristics and values. 

[Bobby_2021]

You know how leftists won the propaganda war when terms like fascism apply exclusively to the right wing.

Countries like China, Russia, North Korea are ruled by left wing ideology but they are not fascists. Lmao.

There isn't just enough terms to articulate left wing dogma/cruelty. Right need to find new words.

[Yousif]

@OBEler

Edited March 28 by Yousif

[OBEler]

13 minutes ago, mmKay said:

@OBEler It's not an oversimplification, it's a congruent elaboration of the trajectory of Nazi ideology. It doesn't matter that Hitler himself wasn't blonde with blue eyes.

Absolute logical coherence is not a requisite for ideology and close-mindedness.

Even if not historically  accurate, the movies and videogames are congruent with the ideology. Again, it doesn't matter that the absolute extreme or his ideology didn't manage to happen. It was clearly headed in that direction . So the movies and videogames are valid

Omg here we are. Brainwashed by call of duty games. That's the proof I am talking about! Can anyone else here see what I see? Please don't be shy, you will not be on the Nazi side.

[Bobby_2021]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Fascism and nationalism are right-wing and conservative.

Putin and Kim Jong are nationalists.

So are they right wing? 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Putin and Kim Jong are nationalists.

So are they right wing? 

Of course.

[mmKay]

17 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Omg here we are. Brainwashed by call of duty games. That's the proof I am talking about! Can anyone else here see what I see? Please don't be shy, you will not be on the Nazi side.

Investigating and exploring all alternative scenarios is absolutely valid . You learn from what happened, but also from what could happen but didn't .

Yes it's not historically accurate because it didn't happen exactly that way and to that degree. But it could have because it is congruent with the ideology . 

Saying we are " brainwashed" by movies and games is downplaying the atrocities of Nazism.

The risks are in not taking seriously enough the dangers of Nazism, not in being too closedminded about it

You can plow chatgpt for hours about the upsides of Nazi Germany. That doesn't excuse the atrocities 

Videogames and movies are valid real possible spin offs and ramifications of elaborating along the lines of the real actual Nazi ideology .

Edited March 28 by mmKay

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You know how leftists won the propaganda war when terms like fascism apply exclusively to the right wing.

Fascism is fairly specific thing and has a pretty specific academic definition.

Here's how Wikipedia defines Fascism:

"Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, liberalism, socialism, and Marxism, fascism is placed on the far-right wing within the traditional left–right spectrum."

Really, the two clear examples of Fascism are Nazi Germany and Mussolini's Italy. Beyond those two the notion starts to get stretched.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Yousif right wing is a broad definition which include nationalism, fascism, conservative.

But there are differences between these 3. So you can say that conservative is right wing and fascism is right wing, but not fascism is conservative, even if both are right wing.

 

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, OBEler said:

but not fascism is conservative

Conservative is a much broader notion than Fascism.

Brains are wired to be more conservative or more liberal. This wiring then guides one's political inclinations.

For example, the Taliban, Osama Bin Laden, and Quakers are very conservative, even though they don't fit into your narrow definitions of what a Western conservative is.

Conservative minds have existed since the dawn of mankind, in every part of the world, in every era. This conservative attitude then manifests itself in a thousand ways depending on the specific circumstance of the era and part of the world.

Nazis have conservative minds and brains. That's the fundamental insight that is being missed and that I am pointing to.

You should watch my videos:

• Understanding The Conservative Mind
• Understanding The Liberal Mind

I explained it all there.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[Alexop]

17 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Nope. Fascism and nationalism are Right-wing, but Not conservative.

You can ask your woke Claude if you need to help to understand.

conservatism has its own unique characteristics and values. 

Man, conservative relative to what? We are talking about HItler being a conservative relative to the way the world was ruled for thousands of years, with cruelty, racism, slavery and autocracy. His mindset was so extremely conservative that even conservatives of that time might look progressive in contrast. Use spiral dynamics to understand it, these are just word games and redefining terms.

[Leo Gura]

@OBEler Ask ChatGPT for scientific studies on the difference between liberal and conservative brains, and then ask it to correlate which brain type would find Nazism/Fascism more appealing.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Conservative is a much broader notion than Fascism.

Brains are wired to be more conservative or more liberal. This wiring then guides one's political inclinations.

For example, the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden are very conservative.

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@OBEler Ask ChatGPT for scientific studies on the difference between liberal and conservative brains, and then ask it to correlate which brain type would find Nazism/Fascism more appealing.

 

ChatGPT 4: 

Research has explored psychological and neurological differences between individuals with liberal and conservative political orientations. Some studies suggest that these differences might extend to various cognitive, emotional, and neurological domains. For instance, research published in scientific journals such as "Current Biology" and "Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience" has highlighted distinctions in areas like response to threats, openness to new experiences, and cognitive flexibility.

However, correlating these findings directly with the appeal of ideologies like Nazism or Fascism is highly complex and contentious. Nazism and Fascism are specific historical and political ideologies that emerged from particular social, economic, and historical contexts. The appeal of such ideologies can be influenced by a multitude of factors beyond individual psychological or neurological predispositions, including social, economic, and cultural conditions.

It's essential to approach the question with caution, as attributing complex social phenomena like the appeal of Fascism or Nazism to neurological or psychological predispositions alone can be overly simplistic and potentially misleading. Additionally, it's crucial to consider the ethical implications of attempting to link political beliefs or ideologies directly to brain structure or function.

Research in political psychology continues to evolve, and while it offers intriguing insights into how individuals might process information and make political judgments, the relationship between these psychological or neurological differences and the appeal of specific political ideologies remains a topic of ongoing investigation and debate.

[Leo Gura]

@OBEler Ironically, ChatGPT is so woke it's too careful to give you a meaningful answer.

There ARE clear correlations there which ChatGPT is too shy to connect the dots for you.

I connected those dots for you in my 2 videos.

Edited March 28 by Leo Gura

[mmKay]

At this point just automatize Chatgpt to argue for both sides, and have another AI decide who wins

Jokes aside,it would be fascinating to have AI debate itself for 1000 hours about some topic and give you all the highlights

Edited March 28 by mmKay