Leo you misunderstand Hitler completely

[OBEler]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Haha

Be careful that your German precision doesn't make you miss the forest for the trees.

Fair enough. But your big picture thinking could sometimes also include some more focus for details. 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Talking to a neo-Nazi is not the same thing as not knowing that Nazis are conservative.

I don't see a serious risk of Destiny becoming a Nazi. Precisely because he is left-wing.

   The main problem is that at that time Destiny willingly platformed Nick Fuentes who was known as a Neo Nazi, he allowed this osmosis between their 2 fanbases knowing who and what he stood for! It's not just talking or even debating a Nazi, Destiny was BEFRIENDING a Nazi! Therefore in this discussion and debate with Jordan Peterson, would this equate and count as a disqualification as well? Both arguers here are equally guilty of misrepresenting this Nazi ideology in their talks, so would you also consider disqualifying Destiny as well as Jordan?

   At least IMO both Destiny and Jordan sold their souls to the devil in this mistake. 

[Danioover9000]

@OBEler

1 minute ago, OBEler said:

Fair enough. But your big picture thinking could sometimes also include some more focus for details. 

 

   Now on this point he's fine to have his big picture takes. Just when it comes to argumentation he has to be wary of performative contradictions and false dichotomies. Yes reality is complex and got a lot of combinatory moving parts, but in logical debates and arguments you gotta be careful of those appeals and fallacies.

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Leo Gura

   The main problem is that at that time Destiny willingly platformed Nick Fuentes who was known as a Neo Nazi, he allowed this osmosis between their 2 fanbases knowing who and what he stood for! It's not just talking or even debating a Nazi, Destiny was BEFRIENDING a Nazi! Therefore in this discussion and debate with Jordan Peterson, would this equate and count as a disqualification as well? Both arguers here are equally guilty of misrepresenting this Nazi ideology in their talks, so would you also consider disqualifying Destiny as well as Jordan?

   At least IMO both Destiny and Jordan sold their souls to the devil in this mistake. 

Well, I don't like Destiny platforming Nick Fuentes. But what I really care about is whether Destiny has a fundamental misinderstanding of what Nazis are.

Also, Destiny does not portray himself as an academic.

Should Destiny be disqualified from talking about Nazism? I don't see why. Does he endorse Nick Fuentes? I doubt it.

The issue isn't who you talk to, the issue is what ideas do you promote and want to see in office. We know who JP wants in office: Mike Pence.

Edited March 26 by Leo Gura

[bebotalk]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_conservatism

Nazism was heavily socially conservative. 

Hitler believed that a woman's place was in the home. He also called for women to be homemakers and mothers and men to have leadership roles. 

 

 

 

[Bobby_2021]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Do not confuse Stalin and Mao for stage Green SJWs. Those are very different beasts. Soviet and Chinese Communism is not stage Green. It never could be. Which is why it failed so badly.

I didn't say they were stage green. Simply that they were social justice warriors.

They were real warriors. They were capable of ruthlessness. They were fighting against social injustice. They were true believers in their cause. 

From their perspective, only them being in power would deliver justice to society. Again they were "warriors" by the real definition of the term. 

I specifically mentioned that they were not the fake warriors with the blue hairs. I know they are different. But they are fighting for the same cause.

Hitler was fighting for his race to be the best and be in power to run the society. Communists were fighting for their class to be the rulers of society.

Blue hair SJWs in the US and Soviet communists have the same motivations.

Just like conservatives in the US and german Nazis had the same motivations.

You simply can't unsee them or even worse, see one and ignore the other. That's just blatant bias. 

One is fighting for their class while the other is fighting for their race. 

[bebotalk]

6 hours ago, OBEler said:

Hitler was not conservative. You probably consumed propaganda. Just hear original Hitler speeches like this one

 

Hitler said you should have respect of the past but you should not identify with it (big difference !!). You should respect their achievements but that should not mean that what they did is still good.

Hitler said, It is good to build up from ancestors achievements but then put your own will into it. So just copy what the ancestors did is utterly stupid.

A conservative would never said that.

Hitler: Nationalsocialism is based on biological insights and not on ancient tradition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which conservative? And in which country? 

You're splitting hairs and mischaracterizing things. Quite a number of social conservatives would say that older forms of morals and norms should be adapted to changing times. 

[Leo Gura]

The problem isn't left vs right. The problem is that no one in politics is conscious or selfless enough to actually embody progressive ideals, nor is the populace at large. So the progressive ideals cannot be actualized, and we are left with lesser forms of conservative systems which match our actual levels of development.

If all people were seriously progressive we wouldn't even need a legal system. But we are not so good.

Edited March 26 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem isn't left vs right. The problem is that no one in politics is conscious or selfless enough to actually be embody progressive ideals, nor is the populace at large. So the progressive ideals cannot be actualized, and we are left with less forms of conservative systems which match our actual levels of development.

No one should be expected to simply embody progressive ideals. Why would they, especially if it results in net harm to them?

The elephant in the room in scarcity of resources. 

You need to solve scarcity of resources first, for which you need capitalism. Capitalism will be producing more inequality. These green people are shit scared of inequality and want to undo capitalism. 

Now they will bitch and moan that other people are underdeveloped while the reason they were so "developed" in the first place was because they were sitting on piles of cash.

So you want inequality or not?

You cannot fight against inequality in the name of social justice and still want to see more development in society. Development will come after capitalism. But that's what's the green agenda is against.

The real problem is that green people are too underdeveloped to understand the mechanics of the modern world.

These green people resisting capitalism will not yield any results more than how much USSR or China tried to undo capitalism. It's will ironically lead to more capitalism and more power grab like you mentioned. 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

The elephant in the room in scarcity of resources

That's true of course.

And not just that, but we need complex systems to mediate all that. A pile of resources is of little use if there is no good education system, media system, court system, distribution system, etc. All these systems need to be evolved up.

Soviet Russia and Communist China or Cuba didn't have such systems, so they devolved into barbarism. Jesus himself could not make Soviet Russia Green due to lack of systems.

Edited March 26 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

12 minutes ago, bebotalk said:

Which conservative? And in which country? 

You're splitting hairs and mischaracterizing things. Quite a number of social conservatives would say that older forms of morals and norms should be adapted to changing times. 

Tell then a social conservative that he should adapt to changing times. He should from now on erase his human weakness, throw out his morals, traditions and norms he values so much out of the window so he can kill more Jews and die on the battle in pure faith for a single man called Hitler. Will he then still be a conservative person? 

 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Tell then a social conservative that he should adapt to changing times. He should from now on erase his human weakness, throw out his morals, traditions and norms he values so much out of the window so he can kill more Jews and die on the battle in pure faith for a single man called Hitler. Will he then still be a conservative person? 

Are MAGA still conservatives?

Why are they overturning democracy and supporting a rapist?

It's quite easy to fool a conservative into killing minorities and following a strongman. We are living it.

Edited March 26 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

no good education system, media system, court system, distribution system, etc. All these systems need to be evolved up.

What we are seeing right now is the declining value of college & media. Mostly due to the influence of stage green politics.

My point is clear. Green values are counterproductive to society similar to how the leftist policies killed 100 million people depsite their good intentions.

You accuse other people of being underdeveloped, but don't acknowledge the importance of bringing development to more people and how green policies are blocking all that development. 

Using inclusive admission policies are decreasing the value of colleges.

Blocking nuclear plants projects and making it more expensive.

Making affordable housing more expensive by NIMBYism and unchecked immigration. The home owners are mostly wealthy liberals living in a secluded area.

Are few examples. 

I mean, the similarity is so striking although the intensity is much lower to what happened in soviet Russia. 

[Majed]

@Leo Gura sounds like a video on the nazi mind is much needed lmao

[OBEler]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Are MAGA still conservatives?

Why are they overturning democracy and supporting a rapist?

It's quite easy to fool a conservative into killing minorities and following a strongman. We are living it.

But then it's not a conservative person anymore but something new. Every normal guy can become a Nazi, you don't need to be conservative.

I read your blog post again and even if I hang up on the word conservative and Nazi, the blog post has some good points especially with ChatGPT. 

 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

What we are seeing right now is the declining value of college & media. Mostly due to the influence of stage green politics.

That's hardly a real thing.

Value of college is still high and declines are largly the function or Orange capitalist tution nflation.

Decline of media comes more from the right than the left. Nothing has hurt the media ecosystem like FoxNews and right-wing echochambers.

2 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

My point is clear. Green values are counterproductive to society similar to how the leftist policies killed 100 million people depsite their good intentions.

This is an absurd leap in logic.

2 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You accuse other people of being underdeveloped, but don't acknowledge the importance of bringing development to more people and how green policies are blocking all that development.

I agree we need to bring development to the people. Let's tax the rich and give everyone free college or technical schools. Agreed?

2 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Using inclusive admission policies are decreasing the value of colleges.

By like 1% maybe.

2 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Blocking nuclear plants projects and making it more expensive.

Yeah. But there is no solution to nucleae waste. You cool if we store our nuclear waste in your backyard?

2 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Making affordable housing more expensive by NIMBYism and unchecked immigration. The home owners are mostly wealthy liberals living in a secluded area.

Rich conservatives do the same thing.

Conservatives have never cared about creating affordable housing. Free market baby.

2 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Are few examples. 

I mean, the similarity is so striking although the intensity is much lower to what happened in soviet Russia. 

There is zero similarity to Soviet Russia.

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, OBEler said:

But then it's not a conservative person anymore but something new.

It's simply an extreme conservative.

Conservatives don't like minorities. If you radicalize a conservative they will kill minorities. This is basic German history which you know well.

Quote

Every normal guy can become a Nazi

No really. They need to hold some conservative values.

Quote

you don't need to be conservative.

Yes you do.

To radicalize a leftist you gotta pull them left, not right.

Of course you can find some exceptions, but these are the broad trends.

Edited March 26 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah. But there is no solution to nucleae waste. You cool if we store our nuclear waste in your backyard?

Are you serious? We bury nuclear waste deep underground. And it could be done on site. Look what companies like Deep Isolation is doing. 

 

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is zero similarity to Soviet Russia.

The similarity is this: Start with some good intentions, get lots of people on board and deliver the opposite results of what you promised.

Instead of alleviating suffering, it caused even more of it.

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

agree we need to bring development to the people. Let's tax the rich and give everyone free college or technical schools. Agreed?

We don't need to tax the rich to do these things.

You didn't tax the rich before going waging a 2 Trillion war with Iraq. That's how easy it is. AOC is fooling you. 

It's a complicated topic for another fay. 

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Rich conservatives do the same thing.

Conservatives have never cared about creating affordable housing. Free market baby.

Conservatives are a minority in the cities. You cannot blame conservatives for everything.

Libs are in the majority in the cities where housing crisis exists. 

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's hardly a real thing.

Value of college is still high and declines are largly the function or Orange capitalist tution nflation.

I think you are dialing it down a lot. Having a college degree used to really mean something. Now everyone is kind of accepting it's becoming a farce. The declining value of papers in academia are also a thing. 

Anyways we can agree to disagree. 

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, I don't like Destiny platforming Nick Fuentes. But what I really care about is whether Destiny has a fundamental misinderstanding of what Nazis are.

Also, Destiny does not portray himself as an academic.

Should Destiny be disqualified from talking about Nazism? I don't see why. Does he endorse Nick Fuentes? I doubt it.

The issue isn't who you talk to, the issue is what ideas do you promote and want to see in office. We know who JP wants in office: Mike Pence.

   He has demonstrated enough of his misunderstanding of Nazism in that stream with Mr. Girl, and how he was redefining what a Nazi is when pushed back was given.

   Yes, Destiny did not portray himself as an academic, but instead as a debatebro and political commentator, who live streams and plays online games. He knows enough about marketing, most of his fanbase, and will farm public outrage just enough it's not libel but enough for viewers to click on him.

   Should Destiny be disqualified from talking about Nazism? If you're willing to disqualify Jordan's stance on Nazism then you can also disqualify Destiny as well, and the evidence for that is how Destiny implicitly endorsed Nick Fuentes, buddying up to him even knowing he's a Neo Nazi and willing to platform and debate Nick Fuentes when the more morally right thing to do would've been to not platform or be seen with him. Yet due to his multiple bans from Twitch over rape and racist jokes, he had a soft spot for Nick Fuentes. I can list more proof if you need it from way older streams, they were together and close for some time.

   If the issue isn't who you talk to but the ideas you promote, then when looking at Destiny's take on John Mearsheimer's arguments for Ukraine/Russia, and lately his hot takes with Israel/Palestine, then the idea he promote is American exceptionalism and American liberalism? Do note when it comes to foreign policy Destiny is a bit weak on that take.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You didn't tax the rich before going waging a 2 Trillion war with Iraq.

You??

The Iraq War was a conservative agenda!

Stop the bullshit.