Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

You haven't understood anything. No one in Islam really cares that 20 million Muslims in China are being repressed and their religion banned, or that they are being massacred in Serbia.

Have you heard about the Bosnian Nakba 150,000 times? Or the Uyghur one? Do you think there were no displacements, land thefts, or murders there? It's serious but temporary.

What is intolerable is that a country is governed by non-Muslims in the holy Muslim land. It's a purely religious matter. In Islam, religion and politics are one. But those rigid close minded dogmatic people who have given their freedom in exchange of stability and belonging have to bow the head. That's life. They live around a lie, and in time lies always are revealed 

 

Let’s be clear: no, the final reply does not meaningfully dispute the arguments presented to them. It doesn’t address the secular foundations of much of Palestinian resistance, ignores the well-documented evidence of Israeli-initiated escalations, and pretends the global pro-Palestinian movement is entirely religiously motivated, rather than rooted in anti-colonial, humanitarian, and legal critiques of occupation and apartheid. The person doesn't even attempt to refute any of the cited examples (e.g., Edward Said, the First Intifada, disproportionate use of force by Israel). Instead, they retreat into a cartoonish narrative about Muslim psychology and monolithic religious obsession — a narrative so lazy and outdated it wouldn’t even pass muster in a freshman-level political science course.

What does this tell us about their intellectual capacity? Not much that’s flattering. This is not someone engaged in good-faith reasoning. This is someone out of their depth, grasping at civilizational tropes because they lack the tools — historical, ethical, or analytical — to reckon with the criticisms they've received. It’s the classic defense mechanism of the ideologue who has been thoroughly debunked: retreat into metaphysical pseudo-anthropology and talk about how “those people” are just wired differently. It’s the hallmark of someone who cannot bear to concede even a sliver of moral ground, because their worldview depends on painting the other side as fanatical, irrational, and subhuman.

Their claim that "no one in Islam really cares about the Uyghurs or Bosnians" is not only factually false — it's intellectually bankrupt. It erases the very real protests, campaigns, and solidarity efforts that have emerged across the Muslim world and beyond. What they call a "serious but temporary" crisis in Bosnia involved rape camps, genocide, and the largest mass killings in Europe since WWII — if that’s “temporary,” then words have no meaning. But even more grotesque is the implication that only Islamic religious outrage explains global concern for Palestine — as though non-Muslims haven’t been on the front lines of solidarity movements, as though Jewish voices haven’t stood against occupation, and as though the issue is fundamentally theological instead of being about land theft, military occupation, apartheid laws, and decades of statelessness.

Their hypocrisy is grotesque: they defend Israel’s ongoing atrocities — including the mass killing of civilians, the deliberate starvation of Gaza, and the leveling of entire neighborhoods — by flinging around other war crimes as rhetorical smokescreens, as if the existence of global injustice somehow absolves one’s own side of committing it. This isn’t moral reasoning; it’s the logic of a war criminal in denial — the ethical equivalent of saying, “Others rape and pillage too, so why can’t we?” By invoking Sudan, the Uyghurs, and the Kurds not to demand justice for them, but to justify Palestinian suffering, they reveal a conscience not guided by empathy or principle but by tribal loyalty and moral rot. What it says about their morality is damning: they are not interested in human rights, only in the weaponization of other people’s pain to defend the indefensible. This is not just intellectual cowardice — it is a profound moral failure, the kind that festers in the minds of those who would rather rationalize state terror than confront their own complicity.

In short: this is not a serious thinker. This is someone addicted to simplistic civilizational narratives, allergic to nuance, and profoundly unserious in the face of real human suffering. They can’t argue, so they essentialize. They can’t listen, so they project. And they can’t accept complexity, so they reduce the world to comforting binaries: West vs. Islam, reason vs. faith, civilization vs. barbarism. This isn’t clarity — it’s intellectual cowardice dressed up as cultural insight.

 

Edited October 15 by Raze

[Aaron p]

Is Donald trump currently trying to end a war...by threatening war?

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

7 hours ago, Raze said:

What they call a "serious but temporary" crisis in Bosnia involved rape camps, genocide, and the largest mass killings in

Chatgpt says that. I my opinion it forget the point of the area, the Muslim territory, that is essential to understand why this conflict never ended, when the abuse committed by the Jews is much less than Bosnia or china , and started as defense. 

Why Bosnian Muslims Did Not Turn to Extremism

The Bosnian Muslims, despite enduring genocide and the destruction of their communities, did not transform their trauma into religious militancy. Their collective response reveals how the structure of a culture—its degree of openness—determines the direction of suffering.

A European and moderate Islam
Bosnian Islam was not tribal or salafist. It was deeply European—shaped by Ottoman heritage but secularized through literacy, urban life, and coexistence. Religion was identity, not ideology. The people sought justice, not jihad.

A national, not a holy war
The Bosnian war was fought along ethnic lines—Serb, Croat, Bosniak—but its root was nationalist, not religious. When it ended, Bosnians aimed to rebuild a country, not a caliphate.

Leadership and restraint
Post-war Bosnian leaders focused on economic reconstruction and European integration. Imported jihadist groups existed, but the society rejected them. Their psychological gravity pointed toward rebuilding, not revenge.

Structural psychology of trauma
The Bosnians transformed their suffering into a future. The Palestinians, by contrast, crystallized theirs into identity. One path opens the wound toward healing; the other closes it around pain.

In essence: Bosnia’s Islam survived tragedy because its core structure was relational and open.
Palestine’s struggle persists because its structure remains closed—defined not by what it seeks to build, but by what it refuses to release.

 

[Karmadhi]

@Breakingthewall 

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

n essence: Bosnia’s Islam survived tragedy because its core structure was relational and open.
Palestine’s struggle persists because its structure remains closed—defined not by what it seeks to build, but by what it refuses to release

I think fundamentally because Bosnians have a state and Palestinians do not

That is the fundamental difference

They feel occupied and have been oppressed for decades

In Bosnia they were treated ok under Yugoslavia and then there was a genocide which lasted for a few years.

Palestinians have legit been born and raised under brutal occupation and they do not even have a land to go back to

I think if they got a proper state, their extremism would go away with time.

[Breakingthewall]

29 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

think if they got a proper state, their extremism would go away with time.

It's possible, but they were given Gaza and became more extremist. It's important that the countries in the region have made the Israeli cause one of their hallmarks. Saddam was obsessed with Israel, so was Iran, and all the Middle Eastern countries in general, and Turkey.

Now, seeing that it's a lost cause, they're slowly beginning to accept the fact. But for this to happen, Israel has had to be very firm. If, little by little, the Islamic world accepts the reality of Israel and if the Palestinians can have a state, perhaps the conflict will fade away, but it has required a lot of war. That's normal, on the other hand; that's how human movements work.

I would say that the Islamic world is beginning to forget the offensiveness of Israel's existence and is beginning to see the possible advantages: technology, post oil economy, balancing Iran's threat. Maybe it's time for the Islam to move forward and open it's perspective. 

Edited October 15 by Breakingthewall

[Raze]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Chatgpt says that. I my opinion it forget the point of the area, the Muslim territory, that is essential to understand why this conflict never ended, when the abuse committed by the Jews is much less than Bosnia or china , and started as defense. 

Why Bosnian Muslims Did Not Turn to Extremism

The Bosnian Muslims, despite enduring genocide and the destruction of their communities, did not transform their trauma into religious militancy. Their collective response reveals how the structure of a culture—its degree of openness—determines the direction of suffering.

A European and moderate Islam
Bosnian Islam was not tribal or salafist. It was deeply European—shaped by Ottoman heritage but secularized through literacy, urban life, and coexistence. Religion was identity, not ideology. The people sought justice, not jihad.

A national, not a holy war
The Bosnian war was fought along ethnic lines—Serb, Croat, Bosniak—but its root was nationalist, not religious. When it ended, Bosnians aimed to rebuild a country, not a caliphate.

Leadership and restraint
Post-war Bosnian leaders focused on economic reconstruction and European integration. Imported jihadist groups existed, but the society rejected them. Their psychological gravity pointed toward rebuilding, not revenge.

Structural psychology of trauma
The Bosnians transformed their suffering into a future. The Palestinians, by contrast, crystallized theirs into identity. One path opens the wound toward healing; the other closes it around pain.

In essence: Bosnia’s Islam survived tragedy because its core structure was relational and open.
Palestine’s struggle persists because its structure remains closed—defined not by what it seeks to build, but by what it refuses to release.

 

The reply you’ve quoted is not just weak — it’s a masterclass in historical cherry-picking, cultural essentialism, and intellectual evasion. It doesn't meaningfully engage with the arguments it purports to respond to. Instead of grappling with the central claims — namely, that Palestinian resistance has deep secular, anti-colonial, and humanitarian roots, and that Israeli violence is not absolved by pointing at other global atrocities — the reply pivots to a sentimentalized, selective account of Bosnian restraint, as if that somehow disproves anything previously said. It doesn’t. It’s a deflection, not a rebuttal — the rhetorical equivalent of mumbling "but they’re different" after being thoroughly out-argued.

First, the claim that the Bosnians didn't turn to extremism because their "Islam was European" is a colonial fantasy dressed up as sociological analysis. It's Orientalism 101 — the idea that there’s a “good,” modern, European Islam (docile, secularized, traumatized into silence) versus a “bad,” Arab Islam (tribal, dogmatic, irrational). This isn’t analysis — it’s a lazy civilizational narrative that recycles old tropes about “open” vs. “closed” cultures with zero empirical rigor. It conveniently ignores the fact that foreign jihadists did enter Bosnia during the war, that radicalization did occur in small pockets, and that what largely prevented widespread extremism wasn’t cultural psychology but international intervention, peacekeeping forces, and the eventual promise of EU integration — none of which have ever been seriously extended to the Palestinians.

Second, the idea that Bosnians turned their trauma “toward the future” while Palestinians are “defined by pain” is an obscene trivialization of one of the most systematically brutalized populations on Earth. Palestinians are not the authors of their own statelessness, their checkpoints, their sieges, or the apartheid wall slicing through their land. They did not "choose" to crystallize around pain — they have been denied every serious opportunity to pursue a future by an occupation that destroys schools, jails children, murders journalists, and bombs refugee camps. Comparing that to a post-war Bosnia — which, while still fragile, had a peace accord, international legitimacy, and reconstruction funds — is both dishonest and cruel.

The person’s understanding of the subject? Shallow, rigid, and fundamentally unserious. They are not trying to understand the dynamics of either Bosnia or Palestine — they’re weaponizing one against the other to make a moral argument they don’t have the tools to defend on its own terms. They treat Islam not as a faith but as a psychological condition, reducing entire populations to deterministic models of behavior based on how "open" or "closed" their religion supposedly is — as though Islam in Gaza and Islam in Sarajevo are monolithic, one-dimensional, and culturally immobile.

And let’s be clear: their claim that the abuses by Israel are “much less than Bosnia or China” is not only factually disputable — it’s morally bankrupt. The magnitude of suffering is not a scoreboard for atrocity justification. Saying “Israel’s crimes aren’t as bad” is not a defense; it’s an admission of guilt cloaked in a false hierarchy of horror. It's the moral logic of a bureaucrat at a war crimes tribunal trying to shave years off a sentence by pointing to someone else who murdered more people. It’s cowardice, not argument.

In the end, this person doesn't engage in political reasoning — they peddle civilizational storytelling. They reduce complex, multi-generational conflicts to personality disorders and cultural defects. They think referencing Bosnia as an "open" Islamic culture is enough to silence the realities of settler colonialism, apartheid, and ethnic cleansing in Palestine. They can’t argue with facts, so they moralize with false binaries. They can’t see the Palestinians as full human beings, so they pathologize them as prisoners of their own religion. It’s not just intellectually weak — it’s ethically repugnant.

This isn’t the mind of a critical thinker. It’s the voice of someone terrified of moral ambiguity, desperately clinging to simplistic narratives to avoid confronting the ugly truths of occupation and oppression. In short: this person isn't debating — they're rationalizing, and doing it very badly.

[Karmadhi]

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/we-died-a-thousand-times-freed-palestinian-detainees-describe-horrific-torture/

Why are Israelis so inumane

It baffles me everyday

It seems like collective insanity

[Nivsch]

@Karmadhi It is a big problem of corruption within the system which worsens after trauma. What America did after 9/11 wasn't better.

I see it as a combination of feeling superior above citizens of the so called enemy country, along with fear, rage and desire for vengeance.

It is important to remember that in both Israeli and American societies only a very small number of people are actualy capable of torturing others.

See for example Guatanamo prison:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp

Edited October 15 by Nivsch

[Raze]

15 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/we-died-a-thousand-times-freed-palestinian-detainees-describe-horrific-torture/

Why are Israelis so inumane

It baffles me everyday

It seems like collective insanity

 

[Nivsch]

[zazen]

6 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/we-died-a-thousand-times-freed-palestinian-detainees-describe-horrific-torture/

Why are Israelis so inumane

It baffles me everyday

It seems like collective insanity

Baffles me too: https://x.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1978579570333757891?s=46&t=DuLUbFRQFGpB8oo7PwRglQ

 

[Breakingthewall]

In my opinion this guy has an excellent look

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPwXF4egE9F/?igsh=bDhoOW5iajZmMWNt

The war of Palestinian is victimism. That doesn't mean that being in jail two years is funny, but believing what they say is so naive.

This Muslim guy has an interesting vision

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPtjcjNEhO8/?igsh=MWYzMHNjbWVtY2I2dQ==

This ex member of Hamas understands it clearly 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPueVuzj9SE/?igsh=MWp0YWptbTE1NnBleg==

[zazen]

Infighting with some group supported by Israel:

Divide and rule, or pretext for continued ops.

[Raze]

 

 

Edited October 18 by Raze

[zazen]

On 14/10/2025 at 3:56 PM, EternalForest said:

@zazen Excellent work. Your posts are exactly the kind of indepth, nuanced political discussion I come to this subforum for. Thank you.

Thank you 😄

News from just today:

Ceasefire broken already it seems.

[Nivsch]

[Schahin]

On 16/10/2025 at 2:26 PM, Breakingthewall said:

In my opinion this guy has an excellent look

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPwXF4egE9F/?igsh=bDhoOW5iajZmMWNt

The war of Palestinian is victimism. That doesn't mean that being in jail two years is funny, but believing what they say is so naive.

This Muslim guy has an interesting vision

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPtjcjNEhO8/?igsh=MWYzMHNjbWVtY2I2dQ==

This ex member of Hamas understands it clearly 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPueVuzj9SE/?igsh=MWp0YWptbTE1NnBleg==

Just shame on you 20.000 dead children not even counting all those that were buried alive or burnt alive in the daily bombings of the most criminal army in the world that even kills children that are hungry awaiting for food.

There are so many reports of Israeli soldiers shooting children in the genitals while they were awaiting food. Why the fuck do adults with weapons in their hands shoot kids in the genitals, what kind of perverted sickness??

How fucked up are your people actually? Get out of here man. Nobody should debate with a supporter of the greatest evil.

Edited October 22 by Schahin

[Raze]

18 minutes ago, Schahin said:

Just shame on you man, 20.000 dead children not even counting all those that were buried alive or burnt alive in the daily bombings of the most criminal army in the world that even kills children that are hungry awaiting for food.

There are so many reports of Israeli soldiers shooting children in the genitals while they were awaiting food. Why the fuck do adults with weapons in their hands shoot kids in the genitals, what kind of perverted sickness??

How fucked up are your people actually? Get out of here man. Nobody should discuss with a supporter of the greatest evil

Don’t bother trying to reason with that guy, he is extremely bigoted but also a bad faith simpleton and genuinely not intelligent enough to actually process arguments. He seems to be some weird Indian BJP nationalist who gets off on israel killing Muslims due to some inferiority complex and rationalizes his bloodthirst.

If you need to fact check him just ask chatgpt to review the accuracy of his arguments in paragraph format, most of what he says can be debunked with simple google searches. He just repeats the same thing over and over regardless so there’s no point in putting effort to type out replies yourself.

Edited October 22 by Raze

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

bad faith simpleton and genuinely not intelligent

Incredible reading this clown. Why are you in a forum, eh clown? To show how moral and  warrior of justice you are?

Respect the people who think with the freedom that you lack, emo. 

Edited October 22 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Schahin said:

Just shame on you 20.000 dead children not even counting all those that were buried alive or burnt alive in the daily bombings of the most criminal army in the world that even kills children that are hungry awaiting for food.

Shit, then the British are demons who killed babies in Hamburg, and the Americans Uber demons who killed more babies in Hiroshima, and the Russians Uber Uber demons who killed babies in Alepo. Fuck, all are demons except the Palestinian, who haven't bombs, then they just rape 18 years girls, then cut their beasts alive when shouting of happiness and they burn them with gasoline for fun. 

You are right, it's very simple. Like you and raze. Very simple.