Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

Correct that's why I said it's not fair to tell him to fix his country.  What via coup?  Come on.

I'm not calling for any coups.

Not only it is fair, it's the only way a country can be fixed.

Edited October 2, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

@Spiritual Warfare Read a bit about Israeli society. Most of whom aren't different then yours.

[hundreth]

3 hours ago, Raze said:

They don’t have a majority, the majority are Palestinians, but most Palestinians are kept without rights and no input over the government that controls their lives and brutalizes them daily. 

If you combine all the territories including west bank, gaza, and mainland israel it is close but Jews still eek out a majority now @ 7 million.

Quote

it’s completely rational, Iran is an obstacle to Israel completing ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, so they lobby the US to put Iran in a situation to provoke it into a regional war to try and decimate its population and remove its ability to resist 

Decimate who's population? Iran's? Not sure I get this rational plan.

I mean I think the most reasonable interpretation is that they want to install new leadership in Iran which will be less likely to nuke or attack Israel. But then, we know what regime change entails. We've seen it play out too many times. 

I think Iran will eventually have nukes, and there is a chance they would actually use them. If they did, it would be catastrophic for everyone. 

Israel has many looming issues in the next 50 years. Iran and their pending nuclear capabilities, and more importantly the next generations of youth completely against them. This will eventually lead to the weakening of their military capabilities. What will the landscape look like then? I don't know. The Palestinians are also screwed. They've both dragged each other down. 

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Spiritual Warfare Read a bit about Israeli society. Most of whom aren't different then yours.

Yea i’ve been to Israel.

Without the religious nuts it’s very European or Western. Lots of hostels, parties and such. But religious nuts and tensions between groups (secular, religious, jews, arabs) make a big part of the country.

[Atb210201]

7 minutes ago, hundreth said:

I think Iran will eventually have nukes, and there is a chance they would actually use them. If they did, it would be catastrophic for everyone.

Iran won't use nukes even if it had nukes.

I strongly believe that they are not that radical.

Their islam won't ever allow them to use nukes ever.

Unless their rules of war change which is not likely.

Edited October 2, 2024 by Atb210201

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, hundreth said:

If

 

 

I think Iran will eventually have nukes, and there is a chance they would actually use them. If they did, it would be catastrophic for everyone. 

 

This is the kind of fear mongering that led to our going into Iraq and removing Hussein.  So be careful with that.   Could end up a mistake.

Edited October 2, 2024 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

Their islam won't ever allow them to use nukes ever.

I don't buy that at all.

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

Iran won't use nukes even if it had nukes.

I strongly believe that they are not that radical.

Their islam won't ever allow them to use nukes ever.

Unless their rules of war change.

If it’s WW3 they would probably 

Russia, China, Iran etc. vs West, Japan etc.

[hundreth]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

This is the kind of fear mongering that led to our going into Iraq and removing Hussein.  So be careful with that.   Could end up a mistake.

I'm against the invasion of Iran and regime change if you haven't noticed. Just stating realities. I think there are other ways to prevent this from happening. 

[Atb210201]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't buy that at all.

Well I don't know what they'd do either.

But I buy it to some extent.

Maybe I'm wrong here.

[Nivsch]

8 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Yea i’ve been to Israel.

Without the religious nuts it’s very European or Western. Lots of hostels, parties and such. But religious nuts and tensions between groups (secular, religious, jews, arabs) make a big part of the country.

The tensions and polarization are big yes. Especially between pro and anti Netanyahu today.

Edited October 2, 2024 by Nivsch

[Atb210201]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

If it’s WW3 they would probably 

Russia, China, Iran etc. vs West, Japan etc.

Maybe depends on the situation but they never want to be the starter of war anywhere I think they are truthful in this one though.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

Well I don't know what they'd do either.

But I buy it to some extent.

Maybe I'm wrong here.

There is a big difference between using nukes to start an attack vs using nukes in response to a nuclear attack on you.

I do not think Iran would use a nuke to start an attack. But they would certainly use it if invaded.

All that Iran having a nuke means is that they cannot be invaded. Which is proper. No one should be free to invade Iran. This is the situation in North Korea.

Edited October 2, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Atb210201]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

There is a big difference between using nukes to start an attack vs using nukes in response to a nuclear attack on you.

I do not think Iran would use a nuke to start an attack. But they would certainly use it if invaded.

Yes in that case I'm with you.

They want to build nukes in case of protection and safety from outside powers just in case to make them afraid.

Edited October 2, 2024 by Atb210201

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

Yes in that case I'm with you.

They want to build nukes in case of protection and safety from outside powers just in case to make them afraid.

So what's the biggest issue the people have with the current regime?    I'm glad religion keeps them from certain evils but what evils are they doing that seems to evade Islam or that they remain blinded to and refuse to apply Islam to?

Edited October 2, 2024 by Inliytened1

[Raze]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is a big difference between using nukes to start an attack vs using nukes in response to a nuclear attack on you.

I do not think Iran would use a nuke to start an attack. But they would certainly use it if invaded.

All that Iran having a nuke means is that they cannot be invaded. Which is proper. No one should be free to invade Iran. This is the situation in North Korea.

Two major issues with this

- Iran trying to get nukes could be used as an excuse to invade like was done to Iraq

- even if the current regime won’t there is no telling what will happen in the future, imagine it collapses and there is a civil war, what happens to the nukes

We could have had a nuclear weapon free zone in the Middle East like we do in Latin America and Africa, but despite Iran proposing it the US blocked it to avoid having to inspect Israel for nuclear weapons which they created illegally.

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Raze said:

- Iran trying to get nukes could be used as an excuse to invade like was done to Iraq

Could? Netanyahu has already made this case. That's his position.

Quote

- even if the current regime won’t there is no telling what will happen in the future, imagine it collapses and there is a civil war, what happens to the nukes

Def a problem.

Edited October 2, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Atb210201]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

So what's the biggest issue the people have with the current regime?  

They want more freedom like the west.

Basically they just want their lives to be like western people.

Liberalism is what people want but Islam won't allow for that very much it has it's own strict and defined sharia laws.

Islam is basically against the modern world in essence based on the sharia law.

It says the west is so drowned in materialism and is falling deeper and deeper away from God and spirituality.

As the regime in Iran is also in the hands of the so called elite spiritual leaders of the Islamic world so this is the case and the west and Iran are the opposites of each other you could say.

Most of the people want western people's lifestyles and Muslim people don't want that and are against that and say it is so materialistic and shallow and their liberalism and freedom is all a house of cards and the true freedom and liberty is the freedom and Liberation from nafs or ego. This is basically the entire philosophy of islam not desiring materialistic goals and desiring for good deeds and Liberation from ego and going to heaven for the hereafter.

But also people feel like they have been taken hostage by the regime's ideologies and can't have their liberalism and freedom in the way they wish to live and they also see western movies and with the internet so they wish that kind of lifestyle which is fair.

Islam's laws are for the community and all society and do not think religion is for the individual they do think that but also they think there are some laws for the whole society to follow.

So that's also the internal war within the country with people from two sides against each other although it divides into some sub sides as well.

Edited October 3, 2024 by Atb210201

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Raze said:

Two major issues with this

- Iran trying to get nukes could be used as an excuse to invade like was done to Iraq

- even if the current regime won’t there is no telling what will happen in the future, imagine it collapses and there is a civil war, what happens to the nukes

We could have had a nuclear weapon free zone in the Middle East like we do in Latin America and Africa, but despite Iran proposing it the US blocked it to avoid having to inspect Israel for nuclear weapons which they created illegally.

They did it because a nation should have their own control.   If they want to build nukes they should be able to.   For their own defense.  If a civil war took place and the nukes fell into the wrong hands how would you know?  You can't know until certain behavior is expressed.  

Can a nation just out of the blue just launch a nuclear attack?  Yes but it is that probable?  No but this can happen now so it's not anything that isn't a current threat now 

Edited October 2, 2024 by Inliytened1

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Atb210201 said:

freedom and liberty is the freedom and Liberation from nafs or ego. This is basically the entire philosophy of islam not desiring materialistic goals and desiring for good deeds and Liberation from ego and going to heaven for the hereafter.

But don’t many of those strict and Muslim leaders who tout this "western materialism is bad" stuff live very wealthy amd have many material possessions and also many of their children live wealthy and some study in the west and have expensive cars and such?