False Teachings - Ultra Thread

[Leo Gura]

Consider this possibility: if you ain't careful you might experience a lower infinity and confuse it for the full Infinity.

Similar to a person who spends his whole life working with natural numbers and confuses that for infinity. The natural numbers are infinity, but there's more kinds of infinity to discover.

You can argue that the natural numbers were never the full infinity, but the problem is that that's hard to see when you're stuck in the natural numbers, since they are infinite.

Edited March 22 by Leo Gura

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It was infinite in one dimension but not another. See Ruliad vs hyper-Ruliad.

Which means it was not infinite. You can't ascribe lack to something and then call it infinite, because if it lacks something then it is finite in some way.

This reminds me of the mathematical infinity which I talked about a bit here:

You're trying very hard to fit infinity into something relative but it just wont work.

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

If anyone thinks he understands Infinity, you might one day find that you were kidding yourself.

And therein lies the wisdom of the teaching of higher infinities.

You are actually in the same position, since you criticize other peoples understanding of infinity, which implies that you have your own understanding of infinity.

You are just teaching dualisms because you never saw through duality. And it's not like you deny that since you like to scoff at non-duality.

[Osaid]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Consider this possibility: if you ain't careful you might experience a lower infinity and confuse it for the full Infinity.

Similar to a person who spends his whole life working with natural numbers and confuses that for infinity. The natural numbers are infinity, but there's more kinds of infinity to discover.

You can argue that the natural numbers were never the full infinity, but the problem is that that's hard to see when you're stuck in the natural numbers, since they are infinite.

You are still looking at infinity as if it is math or logic or incremental or relative.

 

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, Osaid said:

which implies that you have your own understanding of infinity.

Of course. How else could it be?

[Breakingthewall]

Infinity is absolutely simple, it is the absence of limits. If the absence of limits is total, infinity perceives itself as absolutely empty, since it cannot be filled and everything into it fades until become nothingness. Its quality is that it exists, and perceiving itself as total existence is enlightenment. The forms are perceived as holograms without existence in themselves, but with the total depth of the unlimited. any other perception that is "more" is simply limited. nothing can be more than the total absence of limits

[Applegarden8]

I think the point is not productive at all. Knowing you have limited time and resources in this life, better look for the few things that work and implement. You already gave yourself reasons not to try new stuff out idk man. And there has to be a part of some of the teachings that could acctually be true.

[Bazooka Jesus]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Its quality is that it exists

Its quality is that it has no quality, which is why it can "simulate" all possible qualities.

To say that it exists is already saying too much.

[zurew]

On 2024. 03. 20. at 6:54 PM, Osaid said:

I am aware of the mathematical subsets of infinity, and yes that is different from what I mean.

Existential/metaphysical infinity = no limits or boundaries or divisions

When you say there is a "smaller infinity", it is not really existentially infinity because you are dividing experience into a smaller subset of itself. It is a division, and thus a limitation, and thus a boundary, and thus it is finite in some sense. 

There is a conflation happening where infinity is being conflated with an "infinite amount of things" when it is actually just "one thing that is infinite." If there are "things", that itself is finitude, because "things" are a division that your mind makes. It is your mind comparing and contrasting.

Yeah I think now I know what you are refering to when you say "infinity".

When it comes to that kind of description though, that entails literally everything (which means all non contradictions and all contradictions and all non paradoxes and all paradoxes at the same time) - and even this framing is bad for it.

 

 

Its much more paradoxical in nature than some of the people here might think.

Whatever framing or nature you describe to it - it immediately falls apart .Even the idea to think about it in terms of inclusion and exclusion is wrong and limited. Even to say that it is the thing that includes everything - is not it. Even to say that it is the thing that includes , excludes everything at the same time - is not it.  Saying that it is limitless is not it. Saying that it is limited is not it. Saying that it is limitless and limited at the same time is not it. 

Even calling it non-dual is limited and wrong (cause non duality excludes duality). It is nondual and dual and every other possible thing that we can think of and can't think of at the same time - and more. 

Edited March 22 by zurew

[Osaid]

8 hours ago, zurew said:

(cause non duality excludes duality).

It actually doesn't. That's just how it seems when you try to intellectually perceive non-duality. It's more like realizing that all duality is made of imagination or thought. It doesn't exclude it, it just perceives it more accurately. That might be a better way of looking at it. 

It's like someone comes up to you and says "I think that I'm a unicorn" and you're like "no you're not actually a unicorn, it's an imagination of a unicorn, you're just thinking it" and then they're like "no you can't just exclude unicorns like that." Like I'm not excluding anything, you're just imagining something and then also imagining that it isn't imagination on top of that. That's exactly how duality works. When you look at duality as something existential beyond your imagination, you're mistaking the map for the territory, the map being your literal imagination.

When I say infinity or infinite I am talking about an awareness of something which is genuinely not limited by anything that exists. You cannot perceive something like that through some kind of intellectual definition, only through awareness itself. In the same way that you can't perceive sound or color through intellect, you can only partially grasp it through certain words and definitions, but those words and definitions never capture that "thing" itself.

8 hours ago, zurew said:

Whatever framing or nature you describe to it - it immediately falls apart .

This is exactly correct. Because any framing is by definition not infinite or non-dual. It must exist outside of any frame, and so logic or intellect or imagination can't ever touch it.

Edited March 22 by Osaid

[Breakingthewall]

13 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Its quality is that it has no quality, which is why it can "simulate" all possible qualities.

To say that it exists is already saying too much.

It has a quality, a face. Everything seems different qualities but all are the same quality, it's life, intelligence . Or at least it seems so, maybe it's just a quality , but an absolute quality 

Edited March 22 by Breakingthewall

[Bazooka Jesus]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It has a quality, a face. Everything seems different qualities but all are the same quality, it's life, intelligence . Or at least it seems so, but maybe it's just a quality 

That which is infinite cannot have a specific quality. Even to say that it is "infinite" is already limiting it.

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

 

 

4 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

That which is infinite cannot have a specific quality. Even to say that it is "infinite" is already limiting it.

You can perceive it's quality since you are that. For that you must remove all the qualities that structure this experience, and open yourself to the total emptiness, then you perceive what you are.

[Yimpa]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

You can perceive it's quality since you are that. For that you must remove all the qualities that structure this experience, and open yourself to the total emptiness, then you perceive what you are.

Don’t forget that all qualities are also infinite.

But what do I know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Don’t forget that all qualities are also infinite.

But what do I know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Sure, in everything is the absolute, in every sound or sensation, sight, thought. It's very difficult to see it in fear, desperation, pain, lonely and sadness but it's there too. 

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's very difficult to see it in fear, desperation, pain, lonely and sadness but it's there too. 

I experienced that last night, authentically. Thank you for reminding me that Love prevails! 

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

I experienced that last night, authentically. Thank you for reminding me that Love prevails! 

 fear,  sadness, shame, contraction of experience, experience folded into itself, bound by the mind, is an expression of total intelligence. It is something it does to create the human structure. The human structure is of great complexity, it is a work of art of coordination to function as a group. This requires very powerful layers of conditioned perception that are susceptible to folding back on themselves. In fact, it is the most common. The complexity is big and we get lost in the meaning when we should be focused in the depth 

[Bazooka Jesus]

45 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You can perceive it's quality since you are that.

All possible qualities are contained within "it". Which means that "it" itself has no (specific) quality. Obviously.

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

All possible qualities are contained within "it". Which means that "it" itself has no (specific) quality. Obviously.

all qualities are the same quality, the living depth, only they take different forms. If you know the living depth, you see it in all the qualities

[Bazooka Jesus]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

all qualities are the same quality, the living depth, only they take different forms. If you know the living depth, you see it in all the qualities

A quality is a limitation. By definition.

Anyway, have fun. Bazooka out.