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Try an efficient meditation system, like for example "Pointing Out the Great Way" by Daniel Brown. Get your meditation going first on the pillow, Learn to spot any thought/concept arising directly when it emerges from consciousness/emptiness, see it move in that, and dissolve back into that. Then get the meditation "automized" Nonmeditation-Yoga-Style without any effort or artificial activity, the meditation doing itself (advanced stage). That gets the separate-self-arisings "doing" the meditation out of the way (they are just more thought-arising). Then move it into every-day life (Postsamadhi-Meditation). Then, your visual field will start becoming nondual and empty, like a hologram. Bliss without any cause starts to flow, the normal feeling good- feeling bad cycles of the separate self stop. Then, remove all remaining subtle filters/lenses/centers of the separate self arisings, learn to see/spot them fast enough and not "see through them"/"not looking out from them", until only the Nondual Infinite Awareness Space remains, and all perceptions appearing as mere imagined appearances, empty, lucent and hologram-like, moving in "It", perceptions perceiving themselves. And then check "WHO" is aware of that Infinite Nondual Field of mere appearance, with thoughts and world-objects moving and appearing in it like the wind, moving through You.Then, at one point, suddenly even the last feeling of an empty nonlocal witness perceiving a kind of Infinity/Totality will drop, totally becoming one with field. One without a second. Maybe even the One Hand will give you a clap then. The One without a second, initially unaware of itself when no arisings move (Nirvikalpa, Cessation, Deep Sleep,...), but with the potential for sentience. Always eternally right here now. And then, maybe consider the Empty Mirror Job Opening. Selling Water by the River PS: @GLORY "No they can be awake Or maybe even Awake But they are not AWAKE™" May I borrow that somtimes from you? I just love it PS: And whatever precisely the latest definitions of God Realization/awakening/alien awakening/.... are for Leo these days, the writer of these lines probably respectfully disqualifies for that.

Maybe this question is so confusing to us, because we have a very vague understanding of how we are snetient in the first place! I used to believe that an AI needs to have a very complex neurologial setup, an artifical brain like structure, made of bilions of electrical connections for it to be able to achieve a human-like sentience. But, could a very complex code, bypass the need for a hardware in the first place? Can a software be sentient if it is complex enough? These questions need to be addressed sooner than later as the AI field is developing in an exponential manner.

Lol. A retarded human is defenitly less sentient. A stone has zero IQ, that is way it has zero sentience. I am with you that at high levels, IQ starts to become less related to snetntience or intelligence, another function takes over, which I call metaphysical intelligence.

@LSD-Rumi u think a human with 10iq is less sentient then a human with 200iq? Actually it matters not how much intelect u have. Whether u're a simple calculator or a complex ai code. It's all the same. U can upgrade a calculator a 1000x times and its sentience level will still remain the same( that of a math formula). A human with zero iq will still be more sentient then a concept maschine.

If you're an idealist, consciousness doesn't arise from anything, because it's beyond physicality, but sentience is a concept we ascribe to lifeforms. It does seem to have something to do with physicality. You wouldn't say a rock is sentient. It doesn't feel pain when you step on it. It doesn't have eyes to see with or ears to hear with.

"The appearance of sentience that AI has is as illusiory as ego personality"

@Leo Gura But.. the OP was talking about sentience/consciousness..

Why is that the end goal? Isn't it the survival of the organism as a whole? And if you're singling out signalling between neurons as the only important process for sentience, what is so special about this process, and why are other processes in the brain irrelevant? But then, would it be able to think? Does it have memories of previous experiences?

Have you ever done so much psychedelics that literally all of reality collapses into the primordial soup it originated from? That thing is already sentient. As reality reemerges from that state, you conclusively realize that sentience comes from this Urstoff and not some neurons in the brain. So there is no reason why AI shouldn't be able to become sentient.

@LSD-Rumi The inside of a neuron is also extremely complex. Maybe missing out on that complexity means missing out on sentience. There are also other arguments about things like embodiment. For example, we have never experienced being a brain in a vat. What if sentience requires being born in a body, developing sense organs, growing up and learning to respond to environmental inputs and relate to the world in some hands-on way?

Good questions. I had the exactly same problems/questions concerning Solipsism and Absolute Consciousness. The following are answers that can calm your mindstream to make you available for the Awakening, and they can speeden up the realization developed out of certain Awakenings/Koans. They are not "logical answers" that suffice on a logical/reasoning level alone, but can speeden the process of Awakening to these Koans that you state with your questions. > How can my consciousness be absolute when its not on a constant level Because you are the Nothingness/Consciousness that can unaware of itself when no experience or any arising-appearance is there. BUT with the potential for sentience. Which is the difference to IT just being nothing at all. This difference makes IT/You the opposite of nothing: Infinite Potential. If you need to have constant level of consciousness, you would have a problem: Deep Sleep. Where are you there? Have you stopped existing? Rather not.... The Real You can never not be there. The face before your parents were born.... literally. Also, that (potentially) Aware Infinite Reality that You are can be ignorant, or awake. It can have arisings (appearing/moving/being imagined) through it) of a spearate self in it, of an animal, or something like a world/Lila-reality creating angel in the Link below. And these arisings are empty, which means nothing else as not existing independend of You, outside of You, but imagined/manifested/moving within You/Reality. Not self-EX-isting, which means not standing out from the one Reality, but within it. Not existing without this Reality/Infinite Consciousness. It took me a looong time to really get why the Buddhist talk so much about Emptiness, and what they mean by it... And of course, to really get it, you need Awakenings. That is why most of the talk about emptiness can be .... rather empty. Did you ever dream to be something/someone completely different than your waking separate self? Did that hurt you? Or was it just a great adventure? The Real You can never gain or loose anything. How could you improve an Infinite (potentially) Sentient Reality that is infinite and absolutely formless, the One and infinite Only without a second, that can imagine/manifest anything it wants? You could say the content/show could be improved. But who wants that show? The Real You. Ignorance is only a bad idea from the perspective of ignorance (Francis Lucille). Could the Real You be hurt by the show? How? And is "anything"/any imagined arising permanent? Disclaimer: Guru Padmasambhava said, “My realization is higher than the sky. But my observance of karma is finer than grains of flour.” If a separate self thinks it can do what it wants without consequence, you will only suffer... Karma still holds. 100%. Reality is that smart....infinitely smart/intelligent. If the real You/Reality would be anything specific/an arising, or have any properties (besides being totally empty, infinite, with potential for sentience, and being able to imagine/manifest anything in itself and watching itself then, perceptions perceiving themselves with or without a separate self being imagined), wouldn't that limit You in what you could be/manifest/imagine? Any fear-arising when contemplating what You really are is just a protection meachnism of the illusion, of Lila. In truth, you are all you ever wish you could be. Eternally. For the full Realization of what You are, you have to be fully empty of any identification, all (!) separate self arising have to be seen trough, as moving in You. Not because you are nothing, but You are the Containing Reality for any being possible. Infinite. Able to create an Infinity of dimensions. Not a empty lacking emptiness/nothing, but a Full Emptiness of Infinite Potential. If any subtle self left-overs are still there and not transcended/seen through/made objects/arisings moving within you instead of subject/lenses you look through, you will project that on the Absolute Empty Reality that you are. These lenses will distort and colour your realization. How to notice that in an easy way? You still suffer.... > How can my consciousness be absolute and I omniscient when I dont know how and why I am imagining, I am not conscious about it. I dont know about me willingly imagining "Other" Perspectives/Beings: What did you do one year ago? Probably (as me), you forgot that (to be more precise: "I" can't imagine that right now). So you admit forgetting in time. The "other" perspectives/beings, you forget "in space" right now. If you fully understand the structure of your perspective, you would understand the structure of all other perspectives (please check my previous posts if you are interested). And any separation/boundary to any other "forgotten" perspective would just be an arising/appearance/boundary arising in you (so arising form, not you as Subject). So there can not be any real boundaries to the Absolute Subject/Consciousness that you are. >I dont know about me willingly imagining Reality/Dimension Creating/Sustaining Perspectives/Beings: Other perspectives of You that you forget right now do that. Volunteers of for example Stan Grofs Psychedelics Research programs, or those of RIck Strassman, report encountering these reality creating perspectives, for example: Angel is Christian-influenced. What "sits" in the center of the Buddhafields (Dimensions), managing it, in the Supreme Array Sutra? You guessed it probably: A kind of super-Buddha organizing that dimension. In Hinduism, it would be some kind of Vishnu. Infinite Dimension, infinite N+1 Dimension-Care-Takers... And an alien civilization in this Universe would call that instance/perspective maybe "'#24sfse2". So why not tend the flowers in your garden at home, and try to increase the love & wisdom in the mindstream of your invidual perspective, when you had a glimpse of this meta-structure of the Multiverse... instead of learning the "manifestation-mechanism-preferences/methods" of Vishnu Number 92742387423423.....? The "meta-structure" of manifestation, and the "Vishnus, Angel, Buddhafield-Buddha,..." running the dimensions can be generalized via something like n+1 (via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction - style), if you are so inclined... Does that maybe resonate with you? >How can I be omnipotent and have a free will to imagine whatever I want at any moment when physical laws strictly determine Because what you think you are (separate self arisings in your perspective) is not all that which You are. Not the real You. And not all perspectives of the Real You. Physical laws are imagined by the real You and all "its" perspectives, constituting Indras Infinite Net, with a high level of consistency. Different to dreams at night, which are not so consistent. When you awaken to the real You, you will see that what You really are is exactly what Reality is and wants. The consistency of the laws of Reality of this Lila by the way make this saying very true if you want to be happy: "“My realization is higher than the sky. But my observance of karma is finer than grains of flour.” If you want to be happy, I am very sure, it is very important to take that serious. >My direct experience make it seem to be impossible that I am the entire Godhead who is omniscient and omnipotent, and that my direct experience is absolute Because what You really is not the separate self/separate self arisings in your mindstream. -> Awaken to what You really are. >There must be something "behind the scenes" like the Computers CPU which creates a Videogame. But I feel like a character in this Videogame who wonders what everything is and where it comes from without any control. An omniscient being would simultanously know how it creates experience and experiences, where I only experience. Only experience is nothing compared to an omniscient being. An omniscient being would also be conscious about the illusion, self-deception and forgetting See the link above. If you want to explore these mechanism, Psychedelics are probably the way to go. Or you can work on Awakening to what you really are. I would recommend putting an emphasize on the latter, but being interested in the former. Just for the sheer beauty of the understanding of it. >Supposing I become Awake and conscious about how I am imagining everything, why wasnt I conscious about the imagining process before Awakening if I am already omniscient right now? What did you do exactly one year and two days ago? I assume you forgot. So you can forget, or rather stop imagining that right now. In the same way, you can forget other perspectives of you. If you are that angel-perspective of the link above, apparently you can't be a human, at least not in the same moment. So enjoy that you can experience being a human! If that were not the case, You couldnt experience being human at all. You would miss that forever. Or in other words, you wouldn't exist, you (separate self) would be dead, not existing in the first place. I guess your separate self rather wouldn't want that. At least I enjoy the wonders of this planet earth, appreciating that this only possible with the limitations imagined ( : >Conclusion: My consciousness is an Aspect of God but not The God. But change my mind, I am openminded Your separate self arisings are an arising in Reality, they are an aspect of God, and NOT ONLY what you are. What you really are is much more. But for that, you need an Awakening into what You really are. Confusing the separate self with being Reality is a bad idea if you want to be happy (that confusion creates bad Karma...). Basically, to answer any of your questions, you need an Awakening. Maybe the preliminary answers given above can calm your mind/separate self-arisings in your mindstream, to rest and relax in you True Being enough, to awaken to the answers of these Koans. Bon voyage and happy exploring! ( : Water by the River

Yes. To realize what sand is, what You are, ever have been, ever will be, what Reality is, was and ever will be, and what is and will be the Reality of everything that could ever be, is Enlightenment (the final version of it, not the small ones lining up before that). At least in my lingo. Feel free to call it anything you like. And the sandcastles of the past or future don't exist, but are imagined right here and now. Take the sandcastles/appearance away and there is no time. And what kind of Sand Castles Reality/God can imagine, well that exploration and adventure is what you are seeing right now, to be continued. And since there is an Infinity of differently large Infinities (see Cantor Set Theory and Leos lovely Videos on them, especially "Understanding Absolute Infinity Part 2") , even God/Ultimate Reality will never run out of new sand castles to imagine and explore. That means "It" doesn't even have to imagine all of them (hey, lets skip that Horrorshow Sand Castle over "there", shall we?) to still have an Infinity of realties/Sand Castles yet to be explored. Would be a bit boring if you would already know all infinite Sand Castle-Adventures already. Having what you call Specific Omnicience of every Sand Castle possible/imaginable, that is not possible. God/Ultimate Reality is exploring its potential of an Infinity of Sand Castles. General Omnicience or realizing what Sand is (and what You really are), what the specific Sand Casle of ours is, and what the "substance/Reality" of every possible Sand Castle, is possible, see above. There is not only an Abyss when looking into the Abyss of the Absolute Subject, which by definition can't be an Appearance, or any form, it has to be in-FINITE, not FINITE, initially unaware if nothing is appearing (forms of Deep Sleep as anology), but with the potential for sentience of an appearance if manifesting it in IT to IT, made of IT (the Nondual-Awakening aspect). Your True Face before your parents were born. The Absolute. To really realize that, you have to be fully empty of any separate self arising that you don't see immedeately as object moving in you. Nonduality alone, or hearing the angels sing while still looking out from an empty transparent anything to "that" Infinity won't do it. But on top of that in-FINITE-ness of the Abyss of the Absolute Subject/Reality/Nothingness, there is an Infinity of Infinities of Manifestations/appearances/sand castles arising in IT possible. Ready for the adventure? Selling Water by the River PS: Nice books on these topics: Szyper, Infinite Consciousness: An In-depth Exploration of the Shift in Consciousness Constitutive of Enlightenment in relation to True Nature, the Soul, the Body-Mind, the Heart and the Me Good explanation of the stages of Enlightenment: 1. The Shift [Enlightenment] into the Manifested Essemce of Consciousness (various Awakenings) 2. The Shift [Enlightenment] into the Unmanifested Source of Consciousness/ Shift [Enlightenment] into Infinite Consciousness Gorman, What_s It Like To Be Enlightened, Book 1 & 2 (partial and full Enlightenment) Dziubin, Consciousness Is All

I agree to all that Leo has written above. Some musings from over here: Free will vs. Determinism: The Real You (Infinite Consciousness/Reality) has absolute freedom. The separate self illusion arising in you just feels like being you, but is not you, never was you, never will be you. Never could. You contain these arisings of the separte self in the real You. So it doesn't really exist, and since it doesn't exist, it has no freedom. But the Real You has absolute freedom. Nothing is or could be outside of it to limit its power. You project this freedom that you so strongly intuit on the separate self. So it is an illusion/ignorance. But the core of that feeling of freedom of choice it true, it is the Real You. But: That reasoning will not be clear before some Awakenings into what you are, and then it can help you passing and ripening that understanding, and stabilizing you in resting what You are. Then & there it is beneficial. Before that, it is just impossible to fully get it. Structure of your World-Bubble-Perspective/Visual Field: Since any form of boundary between perspectives would be an imagined arising, it is illusory, an appearance. Your current consciousness is limited, you forget all other perspectives in real time. But you add/imagine separate self arisings (feelings and thoughts), which are the illusion/ignorance. With more consciousness, you can have a Vision like Leavitt (see book cover with infinite perspectives). To get Enlightenment or Omniscience into the structure of Reality, you don't need to see all perspectives, but to fully understand the nature/structure/essence of your perspective, which you then realize has necessarily to hold for all other perspectives/beings. And for all dimensions, since there are only perspectives in Indras Net. N+1 -style. Even a Molecule is some kind of proto-perspective, the interiortity of a Holon in Ken Wilbers theory for example. Although a very rudimentary one. Here some ideas/Koans how to investigate your perspective, and which kind of [Awakenings/Enlightenments] you need: all appearances are imagined arisings in you, any boundary to any other perspective would just be imagined/arising (so not real, just appearing): What is necessary for that Awakening: A state of sufficient Nonduality , appearances appearing as just appearances (hovering in you, hologram-like/translucent). Not the normal everyday state, so either lot of meditation done correctly or Psychedelics are necessary. Psychedelics are very useful to get a preview on that, it takes a while to get there via meditation. the True You as the fully empty Nothingness which is "structurally infinite": Awakening in to the Nothingness or empty cogniziant nature of your core. "Structurally infinite", since any boundary limiting it would just be an imagined appearance, NOT really limiting it, but appearing within it. Something outside that imagined boundary can always also appear/be imagined. And since it is infinite, has no boundary (that would just be an arising in itself), it can't go anywhere, can't die: Awakening into eternity or "always necessary here-ness, can't go anywhere else-ness, can not not be there-ness". Also wasn't created (that would be another arising). It has nothing outside of itself (would be another appearance/arising) which could have created or caused it. That is a mindf*** (sorry) of the highest degree once you stumble over it. No daddy, but You get used to it. ( : It can imagine whatever it wants (omnipotent). Then we have timeless/eternal, nonlocal/"everywhere"/every possible being and reality, literally the only "One" or Reality itself, nothing can be outside of It (omnipresent), and omnipotent (since its the only Reality, no other Reality is stopping It from whatever it wants). So we have eternal, infinite, omnipotent/all powerful. And in some persepctives/beings, it even knows its structural fundamental nature: omniscient of its fundamental structure/being. And that is where sometimes the God-word (eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, infinite, omniscient) comes in.... But please, don't use any of these insights for separate-self-identity/arisings. That only makes trouble and, you know, bad Karma. Because it is just not true. All of that holds for the True Nature of You, not some not-really-existing (EX-isting = standing out from reality) separate self. But it is not standing out from Reality, it is moving in it, as it, the temporary arising separate-self illusion moving within you and temporary capturing the show for itself. after all of that, you can Awaken to the nature/structure of Manifested/Appearing Reality/Consciousness, God Mind, Infinite, Brahman, Nonduality, ... However you want to call it. The last step is: (oh yes, after all of the above when having been stabilized in it for some time (days, months, years), the last big shift comes. And you won't overlook that one, because all of the above is gradual. This one is quantum). You won't overlook this one, you don't need to contemplate it, don't need to "make a decission" on it or on what you hold as true. It is totally fundamentally self-evident. It IS YOU. With that, you can look the devil in the eye and not blink. You will have the peace and bliss of your True Nature, that is "maintenance-free", since it IS You. It is variously called Great Enlightenment (Zen), Basis Enlightenment (Mahamdura Brown, Pointing out the Great Way), Great Liberation, ... Who or what is aware of all of that described above? Of the nondual infinite God-Mind Bubble Universe of manifested Infinite Consciousness floating in Infinity, as Infinity. What is the Reality/Awareness of Yours, that is inseparable of this Reality? What is the Awareness/"Subject" in perceptions perceiving themselves, without ever possibly having any location/center? What is the Reality/Awareness that can be originally "unaware" when no appearances arise in You (for example, in unware "normal" Deep Sleep), but has the potential of sentience as soon as an appearance is manifested? Who is hearing these words right now? What is this Absolute Subject, the Absolute Nothingness, that is so empty as Subject itself that the Absolute Abyss, that even God can't see anything in It? That you can only "experience", or that becomes available when "looking back" from "one level lower" and intuit/understand it as absolute Abyss of the Absolute Subject that you are? That then can be intuited/realized as total Abyss/Nothingness. That can never be any form or arising, because "the eye can't see" itself style? The Unmanifested Consciousness Reality that can be unaware of itself if no appearance is imagined, and yet that manifests as any possible world appearance in itself as itself, totally nondual, as the One Infinite Reality? What is beyond Manifested/Appearing Reality/Consciousness, God Mind, Infinite, Brahman, Nonduality, beyond all of that, but at the same time expressing itself through that? What remains if all of that, the Universe-Appearance, is switched off and ends, and before a new creation arises (for example in Deep unaware Sleep, or immediately after death before the show goes on)? What is the unmanifested "side" of Consciousness/Reality/Nothingness, but which is not different at all from the appearances arising within it, as it? That which can not not be there? That which has been called Para-Brahman, Godhead, the Absolute, Absolute Awareness, Infinite Awareness. The Fundamental Real You. That neither exists as appearance, nor does not exist because something still appears? The Water of the River that every Being is at its core. Or much much more precise, after all my clumsy descriptions above have failed: The Clap of the One Hand, or your face before your parents were born. And since You are already It, "I" am just.... ... Selling Water by the River ( : Somebody made a Video Channel on the last step: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9vlZGtpdFIts8GOG5vu27g Bassui on the never stopping short with small Enlighenments: "I have seen that the foundation of the universe is Voidness; still what is this something within me which can see and hear?” he desperately asked himself anew. In spite of every effort, he could not rid himself of this obsessive doubt." [Emptiness and Nondual stage, separate self still intact, on a very rudamentary level, just a void separate self watching Infinity. "The lesser masters from whom Bassui had sought guidance had all sanctioned his enlightenment [see above, Awakenings], but Koho, sensing Bassui’s keen, sensitive mind and the strength and purity of his yearning for truth, did not give him his stamp of approval but merely invited him to remain" "At work, at rest, never stop trying to realize who it is that hears. Even though your questioning penetrates the unconscious, you won’t find the one who hears, and all your efforts will come to naught. Yet sounds can be heard, so question yourself to an even profounder level. At last every vestige of self-awareness [remnants of Empty Witness] will disappear and you will feel like a cloudless sky. Within yourself you will find no “I,” nor will you discover anyone who hears. This Mind is like the void, yet it hasn’t a single spot that can be called empty [no location, unilocal, perception perceiving themselves]. Do not mistake this state for Self-realization, but continue to ask yourself even more intensely, “Now who is it that hears?” If you bore and bore into this question, oblivious to anything else, even this feeling of voidness will vanish and you won’t be aware of anything—total darkness will prevail. [Don’t stop here, but] keep asking with all your strength, “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning [having become fully empty, even of identity with manifested Consciouss, "God-Mind"] will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present." "With the passage of time one’s thoughts are stilled and one experiences a void like that of a cloudless sky [Emptiness, Nonduality]. You must not, however, confuse this with enlightenment. Putting aside logic and reason, question yourself even more intensely in this wise: “Mind is formless, and so right now am I. What, then, is hearing?” Only after your search has permeated every pore and fiber of your being [having become totally empty] will the empty-space suddenly break asunder and your Face before your parents were born appear. You will feel like one who abruptly awakens from a dream." from Kapleau, The Three Pillars of Zen PS: I didn't create that Video. But it is beautiful.

Your perspective on that is already quite good. I would suggest to add these three perspectives: 1: -> The infinite perspectives in the Non-Euclidian-Space as approximation 2: When allowing for forgetting in time, then also allowing for forgetting other perspectives right now, or in "space". 3: The Awakening to the Absolutely Empty Subject that you (and all beings) really are. Any boundary can only be imagined within that. That is why you have to be fully empty to understand Absolute Reality. Then: When you are fully empty and nondual, perceptions perceiving themselves, at some point you will directly have the realization and understanding that the same Consiousness that you are is in the "other", having arisings of the separate self-feelings and -thoughts, being believed and not seen through, just in the same way it was with you for a long time. Then, these dry perspectives explained above become a lived and felt reality. You can not "think" or reason your way to these Awakenings. But with a perspective that is actually close to how things really work, it calmes your questions (mental arisings in your mindstream, which also include separate self-feelings and separte self-thoughts) on this, and make you rest in the Suchness, resting in the infinite Abyss of Empty Nothingness that you are. And then you are open for these Awakenings. You can't force them (that would be generating separate-self arisings, or artifical activity as Daniel Brown calls it in "Pointing out the Great Way"), but you can make your mindstream open and compatible/available for them (Evaluating these Koan on Psychedelics for sure also helps). More on that in the chapter on Non-Meditation Yoga in this book. All waves on the river are the river, watching the river, and are not separate from the river. There is only be the river. All form that can arise have to arise in Reality/Consciousness, including all imaginary boundaries. If you fully understand the structure of your perspective in this life, you can generalize this understanding for all possible perspectives. Since any boundary or border between any perspective can only be form in consciousness. How can you define any outside or inside if any boundary marking this boundary would be an arising in Absolute Consciousness? How can there be any time in it, besides and imagined arisings moving in it, imagining all past and future? What has to be there before every beginning and ending? What are you? Can you ever get truly "outside" of Yourself? And you can not say anything "positive" about this reality that you are, the Absolute Subject, since that would be a form, and arising, arising in it/You. You can only say what it is not. Neti Neti. "It" is Reality itself, unlimited, infinite. And it has the potential for sentience, perceptions perceiving themselves, as soon as forms arise. But this sentience is also empty, it can not be pointed to as arising or form of any kind. And yet, all of the infinite dimensions and forms arise in It/True You. You can describe the infinity of all arisings/forms of infinite dimensions/multiverses. But that which is truly infinite, what Absolute Reality/True You are, has to be realized and awakened to. That is why smarter people than myself mainly used Koans like the Clap of the one Hand, or An ancient pond/ a frog jumps in/ the sound of water. But the perspectives explained above were helpful for me to relax my philosophical mind with helpful perspectives that were close to how things really work. To be available for the real Awakening. Selling Water by the River

I compared their weight. Of course that not all actual meat mass but it's a rough estimation of what you are getting. For the meat of one blue whale you need about 800000 shrimps. We sometimes compare the sentience of living beings to estimate how ethical it is to kill them. The more sentient a being is the less ethical it is to kill it. But weight is an important factor as well. Its quantity x quality. Shrimps would pretty much have zero sentience in order to be more ethical to kill compared to Wales because you need 800000 of them to get the same meat (I am not including other environmental factors) For chickens to cows its like 1:500 as well its crazy. Are there some seriously dumb and fat animals? Maybe crocodiles?

Selling Water by the River, todays water batch: Difference between Awakening and Enlightenment: Enlightenment: You had to cut/transcend every subtle separate sense feelings/thought (very subtle ones, very hard to spot). Then you are fully empty, which is your True Condition. Then, all separate self arisings arise in you, and move in you, but you are not only them. They move in you like the wind. The wind is also you, but you are not only the wind. They are fully transcended. Why is that necessary to fully understand Absolute Reality, or what You are? What you are can be fully empty. Like, nothing at all. Total Nothingness. When no arising is there, Absolute Reality/You is unaware of itself. But with the potential for sentience if something appears (for example, check Hawal and Massaro books). You are still there when all arisings disappear (Nirvikalpha, Deep Sleep, your face before your parents were born). And if you want to understand what You are while forms still arising (like, in normal life), there can not be a subtle separate self/anything cutting the one infinite Unity of the Real You/Reality into a felt subject (Awareness) watching Infinity, even if it feels nondual or infinite. It has to become perceptions perceiving themself, no separate self anywhere to be found. You can not have separate Awareness separated from the field. The infinite field watches itself, literally does. And your body-mind moves in the Totality that you are. The thoughts and feelings of the former separate you are moving in in the True You like the wind. The bliss/love you generate in that state without needing anything external gives you autonomy from chasing externally generated bliss via experiences. It gives you total absolute freedom and love (Bassui below: You will be entirely free) If you understand that for your perspective, you understand that this holds for the structure of all perspectives/beings, for the whole Absolute Reality. Why? Because all perspectives are only form arising in the Absolute, any boundary from one perspective/being to another is either forgetting or form arising in Awareness, seeing itself. The advantage if do that sobre: You need a high developed state of nonduality/nonlocality/centerlessness/mere appearance of the visual bubble. You get that via meditation done correctly. Which doesn't need to be unpleasant or hard (although it normally takes quite a while), at least if done correctly, see for example Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown. If you feel centered in your head, and the outside world appears as solid, you can not understand the Nature of Reality, impossible. So this state is necessary for Enlightenment. But not sufficient. From that stage (Yoga of One Taste) for example, you can continue to dissolve the last remnants of the separate self (for example, Nonmeditation Yoga). And then you can have Insight into what you are. You will not miss that, its definitive. Also, and most important, you got a built in safety check/quality control: You will not cross over to full Enlightenment without fully transcending any and all separate self arising coming up (and the visual field being Nonduality, centerless and infinite). You can't fool yourself here. And you will understand when you are there. Why it is absolute. Awakening: The energetic state of Nonduality/Unity/Infinity with some remnants of separate self still not fully transcended, you can also get by Psychedelics. Which of course is useful in order to have an idea of the goal, a feedback loop to build this nonduality-state via meditation, on and off the pillow. But here, you get the nonduality/mere appearance with subtle remnants of the separate self still intact. You don't have the build in quality/safety mechanism of classic Full Enlightenment. So it is very easy to confuse these experiences for the final Realization of what you are. Everyone having experienced it claims this on the difference between Awakening and Enlightenment, see for example Frank Yang/Ralston/Wilber/Jac O'Keffee/Steven Wolinsky/... (anticipating certain feedback: "they are not awake, but enlightened". Well, with the definitions above I could agree). Enlightenment is in a different ballpark. And you can't imagine it without it fully happening. So it is not some mild form of "God-Realization", or Nothing. It is something of a different category. It is, to quote Ralston, fully understanding what You are and what Reality is. Without any separate self filters, however subtle, still active. So what happens if you value Psychedelic Awakenings or Understandings higher than fully being and realizing what you are? You guessed it: Reality doesn't let you off the hook, you still have psychological suffering. The separate self arisings cut you off from the full flow of love of your True Being for itself. So you need experiences to get this love flowing. For example the love you feel when understanding-experiences of the exquisite beauty of the design of Reality/Dimensions happen. Is anything with exploring Alien-Godminds wrong? For sure not, this understanding is probably among the most beautiful experiences you can have. I just feel it becomes problematic if you value getting the love the unenlightened separate self needs from these experiences, and valueing these understandings of Alien-Godminds higher than classic Enlighenment and fully understanding your True Nature, and resting in it. Why not pursue and value BOTH endevours on an at least equal basis? Not downplaying Enlightenment as somehow not on the same level or lower than any other insight into the appearance or form side of Reality (which is infinite). If what is stated above is correct, with one path one is lead to salvation (Enlightenment), and with the other path (Understanding/Awakenings), well.... best regards from Maya, but you get a medal from her with distinction for playing her game on the highest level possible. For the readers: You will probably not achieve higher level of bliss and love than your teacher using his teachings. And how these levels will develop: Well, we are in the prime seats here to see how it will continue. I don' think I have a high chance of convincing Leo. So that means that the job of convincing to develop via suffering (or hopefully only not being as happy and loving than one could be) stays where it always has been, and ever will be: Maya, CEO of Samsara. All the best, enjoy the ride and the show, and Namaste! Selling Bullshit Water by the River. PS: There is already water by the River, so I am too lazy to carry Bulls**t there. ( : Bassui: “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present. ... If you push forward with your last ounce of strength at the very point where the path of your thinking has been blocked, and then, completely stymied, leap with hands high in the air into the tremendous abyss of fire confronting you—into the ever-burning flame of your own primordial nature—all ego-consciousness, all delusive feelings and thoughts and perceptions will perish with your ego-root and the true source of your Self-nature will appear. You will feel resurrected, all sickness having completely vanished, and will experience genuine peace and joy. You will be entirely free. For the first time you will realize that walking on water is like walking on ground and walking on ground like walking on water; that all day long there is speaking, yet no word is ever spoken; that throughout the day there is walking, yet no step is ever taken; that while the clouds are rising over the southern mountains their rain is falling over the northern range; that when the lecture gong is struck in China the lecture begins in Korea; that sitting alone in a ten-foot-square room you meet all the Buddhas of the ten quarters; that without seeing a word you read the more than seven thousand volumes of the sutras; that though you acquire all the merits and virtues of good actions, yet in fact there are none.

Imagine when all perspectives/beings of the Absolute are switched off. Nothing or totally infinite. Something like Deep-Sleep for all perspectives/beings. "It" would initially unaware of itself, but with the potential for sentience. Then a water-pistol is being imagined. Because is in the Nature of the Infinite to imagine form. Or a planet. Et voila, you have appearance, duality, form, and self-awareness. Very nicely described by the way in Benthino Massaros in "Spiritual Conversations with a Skeptic: On God Consciousness and The Absolute". Whatever you may think about the guy, the book is nice. Then imagine that this orginally unaware infinity forgets all other perspectives/beings "in space". Only "your" perspective is known in your case. You know whats forgetting in time is (what did you do exactly one year ago, for example), so something like that is also possible in space. You are just not aware of them right now. Check this picture, and notice the non-euclidian-space: Infinite perspectives. In this non-euclidian space, infinite perspectives fit in. You see only one of these perspectives, but Leavitt has had this vision with seeing an infinite amount in non-euclidian space. And the crazy thing is: You think (I assume at least : ) that you are located somewhere, head or body. But these arisings that feel like this being-locatedness can completely drop away, if you are able to spot them fast enough, and are familiar with them. Awareness has no location. You can never ever find it. The appearance bubble of each perspective/being is self-aware, perceptions perceiving themselves. Potentially as mere appearance, but with Karma/ignorance rock solid material/out there. But it CAN be seen as mere appearance. And once its not solid anymore one time, its proven that the solidity has only been fake appearance, never really has been like that, just appeared. That solidity is optional, if so imagined. But when you remove all these separation and being-located-feeling-arisings: The structure of your perspective reveals itself (perceptions perceiving itself, no center/awareness-location anywhere). Any maybe you can imagine that these appearances can become infinitely complex. But they are the real You, arising in you, as you, perceiving itself. And in that way the awareness of the abyss of awareness that you are (you can never define it, find it, measure it: INFINITE. Not finite). And you are also all appearances, nondual and infinite style. And if you switch it all off, all appearances/perspectives off, in all perspectives that you imagine in parallel and forget, you are back to square one. And that is the infinitely simple core of you: An Absolute Reality initially unaware of itself, but with the potential for sentience as soon as something shows up, in any perspective. And its not located in 3D-Space. 3D-Space is imagined in you, as object. And you can't go anywhere, can't disappear, can't die. You can only imagine to do so ( : And fully understanding the structure of you own perspective (the appearances of the visual field as mere appearance, insubstantial hologram-like (Yoga of One Taste), the whole perspective being infinite because 3D-space is also something imagined in you, and especially not believing ANY separate self-arisings arising in you (which needs a lot of practice to spot them fast enough, and see them arising and moving in you as objects), then you get and understand is what this perspective of yours is. And that awarness has radically no location. That awareness is really radically no-thing. Yet Awareness happens, perceptions perceiving themself. No lense of perception remains.It feels like the whole field is self-aware, perceptions perceiving themselves. But the field can imagine any kind of identity, location or lense, or ideas about itself. Then imagine there are no appearances, all switched off: The infinite Reality, initially unaware of itself, but potentially aware with sentience as soon as a appearance shows up. And this insight is valid for all perspectives, since any real boundary between perspectives would be just an arising, nothing solid, and not the Infinite Awareness. So it is understood that these insights must be valid for all perspectives/beings. But of course, people way smarter and wiser just would say: The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop! Or the One Hand claps. As always, selling water by the River that is you. Bon voyage. PS: Maybe you can find a few Alien Godmind in the non-euclidian space of perspectives in the picture. For sure a fun ride...

@Jannes sure, sentience, while still inherently biased to a degree, is less biased than relatibility or ecology. It is limited though in the sense that every living creature is technically sentient and when you posit questions where have to choice between a whale or 800000 shrimp for example, then measuring sentience can fail to lead you to any meaningful solutions. Though it still matters and informs our thinking. You can try and measure to which degree an animal is sentient and from there prioritize the most sentient animals. For example, mammals are considered more sentient than bugs, who are considered more sentient than plants. You'll pull a weed without second thought, but a bug you'll maybe feel atleast a little sorry for stepping on. Considering sentience is not a stance of direct action perce but of observation IMO.

@aurum "If by alien supermind you are referring to Leo’s latest insights about Alien Consciousness, I would say we have no idea yet what Leo even means by this. " Whatever the meaning or Referent of this concept/word is , it would just be more form. Even if its a very subtle appearance or formless understanding. Just more arisings. What is it that is aware of all of that? And what happens with that in Deep Sleep? What is that Nothingness that can be unaware of itself if nothing appears, but has the innate potential for sentience? That which can never not be? If that understanding manifests in your mindstream and daily everday-life, I would be interested in how happy and blissful you are on a permanent basis. And how much you would still grasp about the Alien... But then you would probably anyway go looking about this interesting Alien Supermind, but with a big smile on your face. When such a show comes into town.... I would go looking.... ( : PS: I am really curious what kind of stuff will be dragged in from the Multiverse into our little comfy imagined reality in the next decades... Hopefully nothing that is too hungry for some poor souls... ( : But hey, if you look into history, they dragged quite some weird and hungry stuff from god knows which dimensions.... many of the first contactees could later be visited in insane asylums.

I am not sure if humans are the most sentient creatures on earth. I think an octopus could be more sentient but I am not sure. I think you can translate sentience into 'how conscious are you?' You can't get more meta then that.

I think taking sentience as the primary factor is pretty unbiased. If you find an octopus ugly, doenst matter it’s very sentient and therefore of ethical importance.

Except you probably wouldn't evaluate just based on sentience, but based on outcome as well and maybe based on other things as well. The ranking of sentience is very problematic in and of itself, but regardless of that, what if you would kill all those shripms you could directly save 10000 humans (because you could give them food). Or what if that whale is the last pregnant one and the only one who could save its own species from completely dying off? Do you consider things like that in your evaluation or you would completely ignore those? 100 million dogs vs 1 human. How do you decide this one? What if it is guaranteed that the killing process is painless and instant?

I think so. A higher quantity of low quality sentience will at some point outgrow a lower quantity but high quality sentience. Just like 10x 10€ equals 1x 100€. But I guess there are some metaphysical assumptions that I made there. Because 10x 10€ is not 100€ because it’s not getting duplicated. It stays 10x 10€ forever in a sense. The quality that the wale experiences will never be reached.

But then can you really just add these “sentience units” to compare whether one group of organisms has more “sentience units” than another? The shrimp just aren’t capable of suffering like the whale is. It’s more like, what’s less ethical: pinch every human on their weenus or kill the whale? I feel like from a certain perspective, there are no amount of ants that I would not be willing to kill to save the life of a human, much less a corgi puppy. Even if their sentience is .000001 and a corgi’s is 1000, I’d kill all the ants regardless. Of course, that would bring a whole ‘nother host of problems, but the direct suffering as a result of killing the ants vs the corgis would make me choose the ants. Of course I’m biased here cause I like dogs and don’t like ant bites. Also, my reasoning kinda worries me for what an ET civilization / super-intelligence may think about us…

Let’s say you can rank sentience of a living organism. A shrimp has let’s say a sentience of 3 because it’s a rather simple creature. A wale has a sentience of let’s say 400 because it’s a way more evolved creature. If sentience is the determining factor for the right not to get killed then it’s 400:3 = 133. One wale is worth 133 shrimps. In this hypothetical example at least. My point was that in order for the wale to have a higher right to live then shrimps the wale must be so incredible sentient or the shrimps so incredible unsentient (around 0) because it’s 1 vs 800000 for the same meat mass.