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Beautiful summary. Please allow me some musings on the topic.... What You/Reality/Truth are is/was/will be always the case, can not be different or change. And yet "IT" can be clouded over, like the sun can be clouded over with clouds of separate self arisings (the illusion of being something different than what one really is - Nothingness, but with potential for sentience, and the whole infinite field, nondual. "We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. Kalu Rinpoche"). looking at a solidified (not just mere luminous groundless appearances) and external (out there, not nondual) world. The sensations of "solidity, not luminous/mere appearance" and "external, not nondual" are specific arisings that can arise in the opening of Reality that one really is, but they don't have to. If they don't, IT/Truth becomes much clearer (mere appearance show hovering in eternal Nothingness). This "on top added" clouding over (separate self arisings) can go, can be understood, seen through. The thought arisings of the person move in You like for example the wind. Arising, but just something happening in Big You/Reality. Then, one has always access to the real state of things (what is always true). Blowing away/seeing through all cloud-arisings of the separate self via certain meditation methods over the years blows away all clouds. Psychedelics are generating a hurricance to blow away most/nearly all of these clouds at once, but it leaves one not able to blow them fully away afterwards without the hurricance. Psychedelics are wonderful tools to get previews and explore the Multiverse/manifested reality, and combining them with efficient meditation methods to see through all (!) separate self arisings is the best of both worlds. Enlightenment has been defined as realizing/deeply understanding/awakening to that the separate self doesn't exist, has never existed, and will never exist. It just seems to exist, like a clouding over of the sun, an illusion, seeing the rope as a snake for example. The sun in this metaphor is what would always be true, always be the case. The Eternal Enlightenment that is always here, the Buddha-Nature at the core of every being, who are already enlightended but don't know it. The sun/IT has always existed, always exists, and will always exist. The clouding over is temporary, a temporary state, and can be removed. The clouding over state (sun not visible, but still "there" would be a state with no Enlightenment) corresponds to an unenlightened mind-stream, with duality and solidified "external" world present. But that doesn't make ones True Nature/Eternal Enlightenment a temporary state. Ones True Nature/Original Enlightenment/Buddha Nature is more fundamental than any state in it, clouded over or not. And if one fully realizes ones eternal empty True Nature, the eternal aspect dominates in ones being. It is more fundamental than the passing and changing illusory show/river of appearances. The eternal unmanifest empty side of Nothingness is more fundamental than the flowing river of manifestation/appearances/"Appearance side of manifest consciousness,->Szyper, Infinite Consciousness". The clouding over can be temporary be removed by a "hurricane/strong wind" of psychedelics, removing 95% of the clouds. When the hurricane/wind is gone, it snips back to being clouded over, and you can't see the last 5% of clouds while tripping (fully empty, but some individuality still left), because the sun already looks very visible. And exactly these last traces of individuality are what makes it cloud over later again. And these last 5% can make a lot of trouble, because they make you think you already removed all separate self arisings... here is where it can get a very interesting show, involving terrestrials/heaven and earth/and maybe even some extraterrestrials. Possibly sometimes even a case for these gentlemen, with the flash-thing... The clouds can be removed fully by seeing through them all, normally done by hundreds of hours in these states. Then, you can realize yourself to be the sun fully. And the difference between 5% clouds remaining and 0% is quantum. Or a deep deep shift in Identity, which remains. Understanding what one really is, and realizing it to ones core. A cloudless sky with only the sun is something fundamentally different than a sky with 95% sun and some clouds remaining. That last shift is certain. One can not miss the last shift. On all other Awakenings/Enlightenments before you are not sure if they are final. It feels like, but one is not sure. This one is. If one has to convince oneself that "this" is it, or decide on it, or if anybody/anything can shake one/gaslight one, well.... it is not it. Which is logical, because if one knows what one is one knows what one is, and if one is not completely sure, then one doesn't know what one is. And it brings the potential for psychological suffering to stop, because psychological suffering IS a big building block of the separate self arising Gestalt/structure. And if one fully see through that (the last 5% of the clouds), one gains the potential to literally cut off these suffering-arisings. If one fully knows what one really is (like in "no doubt possible"), and one can cut off all separate-self psychological-suffering-arisings, who or what could lead you to doubt or gaslight you? Hope I didn't lecture too much. Maybe some find that helpful. For those that don't, please don't do the bear manoeuvre shown in the link in the signature, listen to the "Blackeyes Peas, Where is the love" video, and enjoy the show. The point of the ride (separate self show) is the ride, and if that is still attractive, let's continue the ride... Selling Water by the River @UnbornTao: Can't help it ....

What's sentience?

Hi Mike, I am not sure if I fully get your questions. If my answer below is not on topic, please excuse, and let me know. Below are some ramblings on the topic of space, and how it developed for me going from "self-existing-reality-aspect" to "imagined in Reality/Infinite Consciousness". which was one of the deciding steps boosting nonduality/mere groundless appearance in everyday life, making the constant intuiting of fundamental Nothingness/Reality much more proficient. At least for me, space itself was one of the last things to go from "self-existing" to imagined. "Time" as concept goes before, and is replaced by the Always Here Mind/Reality. Space is one of the first "Archetypes" necessary for manifestation in this dimension, and one of the last things to be seen through. Space is not fundamental (or self-existing), it is also imagined. Space (any kind, 3D, 4D, non-euclidian, whatever. Infinite amounts of different space-dimensions in Mathematics) is not any kind of Absolute Reality. It took me a long time to get this, thinking along quite similiar lines of thought as these you write above. Space is normally seen as such a fundamental that (at least for me) didn't even considering questioning that, or rather wondered how space "fits into the picture" of Ultimate Reality,which has cost me quite some time. The perspectives of Consciousness/Reality of the Leavitt picture (hyperbolic Euclidian Space of Visual Fields Bubbles, see previous posts) are not situated in any kind of space. The "Absolute or Nothingness/Primary Consciousness/Reality unaware of itself when no arising is imagined" is more fundamental than space. It is fundamentally totally spaceless. Space is imagined in it. As one of the first arisings. If there is nothing, there is no kind of space. Just Infinite Potential. See the Massaros Waterpistol example (Conversations with a Skeptic) I wrote about in previous posts. With space, I mean any kind of space, 3D, non-Euclidian, n+1 dimensions. Also, Indras Net is not situated in space. Leavitts Picture is a version of Indras Net. Both taken together are a nice working model. An Infinity of perspectives are imagined, and all but your own perspective forgotten in space. Psychedelics can loosen that quite a lot, you get access to more than "your" perspective of this life. But One Absolute Consciousness/Reality is aware of them all (since there can not be anything else than THAT, which is also a direct realization), and "that" also happens to be the stuff/material of all appearances, totally nondual. Perceptions perceiving themselves. And with no appearance/arising, this Reality is unware of itself, but with the potential for sentience. To make it more practical: If you have ever remained aware while going from Dream Sleep to waking state (or the other way round): There is a spaceless state in between, with NOTHING arising. Infinite. No Space. "vast", but not even vast. Just infinite. It is not 3D-Space. Just Nothing. No separate small you. Only Infinite Potential. Similiar to Deep Sleep (blackout), but like an infinite Nothingness/darkness suffused with light, timeless since there is no movement, just nothing. Your perspective is not situated in space then. Space gets imagined in the dream, and in "waking-life", so "before" or "after" THAT (and to be more precise, since there is no time/change in it, it all gets imagined IN IT). And of course, waking life is also a dream, just more coherent, happening in IT/You/Reality. With enough meditation/practice awareness can carry into these states, and instead of the usual Deep Sleep Blackout it can become something as described above, which of course makes the structure of reality more clear. Maya-Deep-Sleep-Blackout replaced by something more revealing (Infinite Darkness suffused with light, and not just a blackout). And I know, all of that is imagind right now, but these states still can occur. And its quite beneficial for understanding to experience them. All this logical reasoning can't get you to the big Awakening into what You really are. But a coherent explanation can help calm the thinking-mind during meditation (on or off the pillow), especially when its no longer only concentrative meditation, but meditation without concentration-support-object, and make it "compatible" for the Realization. And can help you boost your nondual/mere appearance visual field during that. With that goal, I write these lines. Not to logically get you to a conclusion/reasoning that you are IT, but to open the door to be available for that Realization in certain fully nondual states when you are fully empty of separate self arisings, and all perceptions appear as mere appearance. But I agree that the Zen-guys are way smarter than me: They would just mainly stay shut up, smile at you and make you meditate (boost nondual states), and say something like "go looking for the face before your parents were born". Which is actually the same thing I try to point to above. It is up for the reader if these ramblings of mine are of any worth. The Realization is a direct insight/understanding, Consciousness/Reality understanding itself, since there is nothing else. It is not "I always come to this conclusion, that is why I can rule out the rest, so that must be it". That is all nice and good (and necessary), some of the preliminary Awakenings/Enlightenments coming before the Big Bang, necessary to a certain degree and profiency to make the Mindstream "compatible" for the Big Bang. It is more like something undeniable, like a punch in the face. It is an unmistaken insight into what the True You/Reality are, no doubt/error possible. Self evident. Dead-certain (literally). The possibility that one can be gaslit on that Realization is something like a joke occuring in You/Reality. Or, as said in Zen: You can smile the devil in the face, and not be shaken in your certainty of What You are. Or: Who knows the spring does not drink from the cup. If "you" still can doubt it, it is not It. The more compatible your mindstream is with the Enlightened Mind (meaning no possible concept not seen through as thought arisings-in you, the last to go after space is "individuality" of a separate anything), the higher the chance for the Big Bang described above. Small "you" can't force it, but create circumstances where IT can happen (That is a large chunk of the essence of Nonmeditation-Yoga in Mahamudra). You become the whole Infinite "Thing" afterwards, with nobody watching "It". Perceptions perceiving themselves, Steven Norquist style. See my last post if you are so inclined. And yes, that haunted emptiness is the price to pay. But it just happens to look like there is a "real" price to pay, looking like that from before that Gateless Gate. Having gone through it, there never was a price to pay. To the opposite, you win It all. Everything. Everything there could ever be. What you "loose" is just the grip of the separate thinking/feeling arisings of the separate-self-Gestalt, which was nothing more than a a pattern of illusion-arisings (technically (and beware, reductionism ahead): patterns of phenomena-arisings of a separate self=structure=probability distribution of arising, a process of arisings with a certain systematic to it). Arising in you, but not self-existing: You can happily exist without it. What remains is Reality itself, and a person that isn't less functional than before, but more so (because you are not standing in the way of the optimal rollout of Consciousness/Reality). Short form: "I am not a human, I have a human". To fully get it, you need to awaken to it. Or said differently: If you would fully understand all of the above, you would be realized. On how long its stays "haunted", and how much this haunted reaction lasts: I write more about that in my last post. Maybe that is interesting for you, and I hope I didn't miss the questions too much. If I would have known that back in the day, I would have been faster and could have avoided some time-consuming mistakes. That is why I write it, not to lecture anybody or proove any fixed ideas of mine. The Ego is in large parts a cluster of beliefs, which it has to defend life-or-death style, because for the Ego its exactly that (at least with important core-beliefs). Similiar to what the bear does in the video in the signature of the post. If its not useful for you, just disregard it. In case I rambled on, please excuse the deviation. Selling Water by the River PS: If anyone feels inclined to comment on the post, please check if the bear-move in the link below (signature of the post) is being performed or not, and preferably the Blackeyes Peas and "Where is the love" (or something similiar) is being played in your emotional continuum. Then, any questions, comments, and suggestions are even more welcome than when the song is not playing. PSPS: "If God as you say are exploring though us does that mean those two bodies in that conversation is not looking at each other but that God is imagining and holding both of them within itself? And all these ideas of eyes and perception that aren’t actually in my direct experience are the ways I’ve been taking a false ownership of what’s really God’s experience of the other body as something belonging to my body?" Yes, pretty much like that. Various aspects: 1) Leavitts Non-Euclidian perspectives style, and most perspectives forgotten + 2) Indras Net that any perspective reflects all others + 3) aspect that for example even an atom or molecule has some kind of proto-perspective, reacting on similiarly leveled perspectives (=Holons in Ken Wilbers system, and similiar leveled = other molecules). And Holons/Perspectives all the way down (to infinity, quarks, ....) and all the way up (to infinity, like Galaxy-governing-monads, Universe-governing-monads, Multiverse-creating/sustaining/governing monads, and infinitely higher up n+1, and also completely "OTHER" realms, unimaginable to human mind with space/time/.... For that, see Jac O'Keeffe). And then one could start wondering of how much of that one can have explored/understood of all that manifested stuff in one single human lifetime. Next to Nothing. Infinitesimal so to say, if one is mathematically-prone. So maybe instead one fully realize ones essence and structure of Ultimate Reality/True You as Infinite/Nondual/Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness, and LIVE THAT as much as possible? With the bliss it brings? Not to talk about the "hang-over" of the (imagined of course) good Karma/tendencies that brings for ones next imagined manifestation (only if one is inclined to believe in that, which is of course not absolutely real, but part of the imagined show). But that would still be nice for the big show that "we" are all celebrating here So basically, with that model above, you don't need space as self-existing reality. Any maybe consider replacing the God word with some bundle like "Infinite Consciousness/Reality/God/True You". Just to not project/make God some self-existing external reality outside of you. Ultimate Reality is nondual, Infinite Consciousness Nothingness perceiving its own manifestations, perceptions perceiving themselves without separate self elements "clouding" the true state of things. God is not somewhere outside. God is right here. What imagines all of that? Biggest possible accident: Projecting/Confusing the Individuality-Arisings of the Separate-Self-Gestalt on God/Reality/Infinite. That is the worst possible seductive kiss from Maya imaginable. Yet, quite a show....

Hi Lilia, maybe you like these two quotes. They highlight how a large majority of the spiritual marketplace is still selling Nonduality, not the realization of Ultimate Reality/Absolute. Some even only sell No Ego/No Person, which comes before Nonduality/mere groundless nondual Appearance.... And some even call the "No Ego/No Person" No-Self. . Well, caveat emptor.... ( : Nisargadatta, in Consciousness and the Absolute: The Final Talks of Sri NisargadattaMaharaj edited by Jean Dunn "The world is your direct experience, your own observation. All that is happening is happening at this level, but I am not at this level. I have dissociated myself from Sattva Guna, beingness. The Ultimate state in spirituality is that state where no needs are felt at any time, where nothing is useful for anything. That state is called Nirvana, Nirguna, that which is the Eternal and Ultimate Truth. The essence and sum total of this whole talk is called Satguru Parabrahman, that state in which there are no requirements. After the dissolution of the universe, when no further vestige of creation was apparent, what remained is my perfect state. All through the creation and dissolution of the universe, I remain ever untouched. I have not expounded this part: my state never felt the creation and dissolution of the universe. I am the principle which survives all the creations, all the dissolutions. This is my state, and yours, too, but you don't realize it because you are embracing your beingness. " That quote of Nisargadatta is given in Halaw, God is Nothingness Halaw writes: "A major shortcoming with much of the nonduality pervading the modern spiritual marketplace is that it seldom acknowledges the Nothingness which permits ‘being’ in the first place. Awareness, Being, Presence—or some variation or combination of the three—and interconnectedness, seem to represent the extent of what modern nonduality is interested in. Nothingness, however, transcends even nonduality; for while the nondual whole encompasses everything—all of ‘being’, in fact—it does not include Non-being, which precedes and acts as the very basis of ‘being’ itself. Imagine: if nonduality, the interconnected matrix of all ‘being’, including mind or consciousness, were represented by an oil painting, then Nothingness is the canvas upon which the picture resides. Nothingness pervades the entire nondual universe; it is the principle that permeates everything. In other words, Nothingness allows nonduality to occur in the first place, just as it does ‘being.’ The reason that the human body, mind, consciousness/awareness, interpenetrate is because Nothingness allows them to exist—or rather, they exist as manifest Nothingness. This must be realized. Experiencing nonduality is not yet Enlightenment. We must penetrate deeper, past all sense of ‘being’, to the canvas below the paint to realize our and all beings’ true nature as boundless Nothingness. When that happens, ordinary mind becomes the Mind of the sages. Buddha Mind, then, is the mind’s recognition of its own empty, groundlessness, not as some eternal supreme principle called Awareness, but as the very living, conscious embodiment of Nothingness in this world, at this very moment. It is not an exaggeration to say that consciousness is the act of Nothingness being aware. To know ultimate Nothingness, jettison everything. That means the world, your body, mind, ideas, beliefs, saviors, prophets, Buddhas, and even consciousness itself. Everything in the manifest realm must go." But don't throw the raft away in the river before you crossed it.... A not so smart move, quite often seen and read. Maya has got some funny tricks up her sleeve... ( : Selling Water by the River PS: If all of this sounds bleak and like nothing-at-all: That Nothingness can create a new Creation "instantly". As it does every moment. It is not a no-thing-at-all (but Nothingness), but unlimited infinite Potential also. And the source of all sentience/awareness, initially unware of itself when no appearance is arising. IT "is" already everything, nondual. "IT" already makes every appearance groundless/mere appearance, the essence of every appearance is already Nothingness. Suchness. You, with a big Y. The Buddha-Nature at the core of every sentient being. At the same, it is the Absolute Abyss that can NEVER be seen as any object/arising, even by the highest Divinity. "The eye can't see itself"-style. Or God remains an eternal mystery to itself. Not on the arising/appearance side, and their mechanism. But with the Nothingness-aspect, the core of awareness/sentience, that can never be seen. And after dabbling with writing about the neither existing nor non-existing Absolute/Totality/Reality, let's conclude with somthing much more precise after all these impossible endevours. ( : Basho's Haiku: Into the ancient pond / a frog jumps / waters sound

Existence is only serious for the separate self illusion. Which is, as the name says, an illusion. It is not real. Just appearing, for a limited time. But for the separate self, it is very very serious, deadly serious, and very brutal. At least from time to time. And 100% deadly for it in the end. Since the separate self is NOT permanent. Only Absolute Reality is permanent, or timeless. Always here. That is why a good indicator for real/true/no illusion/not imagined/not arising You/Absolute Reality/God/Absolute is: Is it always right here, can not not be there? What Hawal calls Nothingness, so that no concept gets put onto the Absolute Reality. But "a" Nothingness with the potential for sentience, and the potential to imagine anything. Even a separate self that still thinks it is the Absolute/God. >God doesn't "enjoy" pain. You are God.. Do you enjoy it? Definitely not. Absolute Reality neither enjoys it, nor does not enjoy it. It manifests/imagines it, and is aware of its own arisings within it. All reactions towards suffering are only arisings in the Infinite Reality. Enjoying itself is already an arising WITHIN the Absolute Reality. How about replacing the word God more often with Infinite Reality or Absolute? That is a bit safer, in order to not elevate separate self identities to God-Level? They arise in God/Reality, but the separate self for sure is not God or Absolute Reality. It is an imagination of God/Reality, arising in it. Personally, I don't tend to use the word God for Absolute Reality often, because it is so easy to elevate something to God level that is not IT. But I can use it with full conviction for the Absolute, but only if I am sure no subtle separate self arisings/concepts get mixed up with it. And that is tricky, tricky business.... To put it more precisly with more humor: "Ignorance is a bad idea only from the vantage-point of ignorance.", Francis Lucille And if you still suffer (not bodily, but psychological suffering), and the suffering is not just an arising in You, moving trough You, just a small part of You, not really gripping/bothering You, then you are not in stable resting in your True Nature. And that is why "Ignorance is a bad idea only from the vantage-point of ignorance." ( : Selling Water by the River PS: And for the purpose: It is not fun eating alone... Or playing chess against yourself while not forgetting one player. ( :

You (capital Y) are the whole Infinite Reality (imagined body, imagined appearances, imagined everything n+1). With nothing outside of it, because that would be an imagined arising too. Any boundary separiting IT from an imagined other IT would be an imagined arising, an appearing phenomenon. Infinite. Try to imagine everything gone, including thinking: NOTHINGNESS. Not big, not small, just NOTHINGNESS. A vast infinite Nothingness, that is not even vast, because there is no 3D-space or anything (no objects/arisings). Similiar to Deep Sleep. YOU are still there. YOU awake every morning after having been there. You already know that you can be totally something/somebody else in dreams, and have totally forgotten all the past you imagine right now to be your "real" human self. But IT is not Nothingness like nothing there at all, but Nothingness with the POTENTIAL for sentience as soon as anything is imagined, and with Infinite Potential to imagine ANYTHING within it, n+1. Imagine a water pistol pops up in this Nothingness (see example Massaro, Conversations with a Skepctic): Then you have a) an imagined appearance (water pistol) and b) "something" perceiving it, the subject. Or just the perceptions of the water pistal in case no separates self is imagined/arises. Just the waterpistol perceiving itself, perceptions perceiving themselves. Impersonal. Then you have a "world", and subject/object. So what are you then? a) The Infinite Field with anything that can possibly be imagined? Yes. Nondual/Totality/Oneness. The manifest/imagined side of Infinite Consciousness. Always changing, never stable, since no appearance/form lasts. NONE. But there is a constant: b) But even more so, you are that Nothingness that can be unaware of itself, Infinite Consciousness initially unaware of itself, but with the potential for sentience if something arises. The unmanifest side of Infinite Consciousness. The unchanging, Unborn and constant core of the True You/Reality itself. So empty that IT is the Abyss, Impersonal. NOTHINGNESS. But also Infinite Potential, since IT can imagine anything. and "Both"a) and b) is indivisible, nondual. Totally the same essence, ONE Reality. The Nothingness or the True You is already the essence/"substance" of every imagined arisings/phenomenon, including the water pistol, or all separate self arisings (they are all appearances within you). a nice book about that is Szyper, "Infinite Consciousness" And that is why with the Big Awakening/Big Enlightenment, you realize yourself to already be (and ever have been, ever will be) both totally Nothingness (no separate self arisings not transcended or spotted fast enough) and everything manifested/appearing. Its all One Infinite Reality, imagined in Infinite Consciousness/Mind, hovering empty appearances, hovering in You/Reality, perceptions perceiving themselves. What falls away (or are understood) are just the ignorant separate self arisings, that make you feel and think you are not the Infinite Totality, but this small body "moving" in it. You become Nothing(-ness), but also Everything. No longer a separate body-mind in a larger "universe", but all of that happening in You. To fully get it, you need many small awakenings/Kenshos/Enligthenments (becoming gradually the empty infinite mere imagined appearances/nondual field), and a big awakening (Great Enlightenment, Basis Enlightenment, Great Satori) after you have become the whole infinite empty field, when you wonder who/what PERCEIVES that field. The One Hand clapping. That is when the last subtle layers of the separate self are suddenly seen through. Sudden Awakening. Its gradual until then, and sudden and unmistakenly with the last shift. Up to that shift, there are stages and higher awakenings. But the bug stops here. That is also why you never know with the smaller Awakenings (1) what the end of the ladder is.... and (2) you still suffer. And of course you can go exploring afterwards, but you already understand what You are and what Reality is when doing that. And how you fooled yourself before, with many different layers (imagined separate self, imagined past, imagined future, imagined anything n+1). The Real You is quite smart to fool itself in such a way.... ( : Tricky thing with the last shift is: This last shift needs a fully empty or transended separate self, including very subtle layers of feeling/thinking... And that needs.... a lot of time in these nondual and empty states to get rid of any untranscended separate self arising. And these last separate self elements can be very tricky & subtle, needing familiarity with them to spot them, and a very fast speed of spotting and transcending/cutting them off in real time. And: You can't force it here with the usual meditation techniques (that came before this stage) of directing attention. Because who/what is doing the meditation? The separate self.... It has to be automized, so that the meditation does itself. No artificial activity of a separate self. Non-Meditation Yoga in the Mahamudra-System. Or alternatively, but not so efficient: "Bang your head against the wall" for several years with a Koan. That also works, but more brute-force-style and doesn't feel so nice... Or you win the genetic lottery, jump all of that, find yourself to be the Great Unborn... and have no clue how to get there since you jumped the journey. Ramana-style. The author of these lines wasn't lucky enough to win this lottery. But hey, the point of the ride is ride. Bon voyage! ( : "We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all." Kalu Rinpoche Selling Water by the River

Hi Lilia, yes, there can be pain, but no psychological suffering stacked on top, and the pain itself much more removed with less focus, flowing through oneself like a distant wave. What I wanted to say in my post (suffering and mainting Realization sobre/without psychedelics) was that without full stable Realization of ones True Nature and being able to keep that stable in everyday life (Postsamadhi), the cycle of suffering of the separate self continues. Without Realization of ones True Nature, one can have wonderful trips of Awakening with psychedelics, or just normal blissful experiences. But it never lasts. The merry-go-round of being content/satisfied and then no longer content/satisfied (suffering in the Buddhist sense of Dukha means not literally suffering, but something mroe like unsatisfactoryness (everything being unsatisfactory in the end, which then also causes suffering) continues. It is (in my observation) a necessary building block of any Lila, because without it the separate self arising would at some point no longer find "projects", and just "fizzles" out at some point. And: When I became able to rest in my True Nature (cutting off and/or just watching the separate-self arisings (thoughts/feelings) "Trekchö-style" emerging also at high frequencies, the visual field became limitless/infinite/nondual/mere appearance/imagined style/empty/groundless), and most of the separate self arisings were seen flowing through the Reality that the Real I is, I got a flow of bliss/love flowing from and through that Source/Reality that was independend from outer circumstances. In the beginning I thought it was too good to be true, like am I fooling myself here. But it never stopped, and increased further, including the so called three special states of bliss, emptiness (groundlessness) and luminosity (shimmering mere appearance), which then also progressed further. At that time, the meditation was off-the-pillow (Postsamadhi-Meditation) since quite some time, so I got that in everyday life and not only while sitting. And from that basis of a fully nondual infinite field of empty groundless mere appearances with no center/separate anything, one can start wondering WHAT kind of empty nonlocal Awareness really watches that infinite empty field of mere appearance, and in What that really appears. And then the Big Bang can suddenly happen. But that comes normally a considerable time after the stabilization of the Nondual Field described above. Tashi Namgyal, quoted in Pointing out the Great Way, Brown: "In short, crossing over [to Enlightenment] happens at the time when every single sensory experience—appearance [visual field] and thought [any separates self or thought arising in general]—are viewed as clarity/emptiness [mere empty groundless imagined appearance] and movement/emptiness [thought/separate self arisings moving in You/Reality] with absolute certainty [meaning it is no a decission of any kind, but a self-evident observation and an understanding of Absolute certainty, an Understanding of Ultimate Reality (infinite consciousness) understanding Itself]." Or in other words: When you get it that anything there can ever be is just a imagined show happening in the True You, and the True You is so totally empty/Nothingness that it is when no appearance appears unware of itself, but with the potential for sentience if something is imagined. Or: Totally empty, Nothingness, so that IT can manifest anything and is not limited in any way, which it would be if IT/You were anything specific at all. This is a point where many teachings become imprecise, or just end there (at a not so empty Nonduality), because the author didn't progress over that Nonduality-Stage with a still lingering pretty empty awareness/witness. Whenever you here "I am this Nonduality", a questionmark is indicated. For that, see also this video (Prior to Nonduality): Concerning what you describe about pain: Yes. If there is Physical pain, it is still there, but no psychological restisting/suffering arises because of it (which is like 80% of the perceived suffering). On top, as you describe, the physical pain flows through the Reality that you are, like the wind. Much more remote, like there is pain moving in me, but I am not that pain. It doesn't "grip" anymore. Bon voyage Water by the River

I realized there are many words for roughly the same "levels of complexity» with respect to how reality is conceptualized and experienced. This is me sharing some of those words with you. If you want an anchor: for level 3, think of humans; for level 2, think of animals; for level 1, think of rocks: 3. Thought, abstractions, meta-cognition, symbols, self-reflection, the conscious ego, internal re-representations, sapience, language, narrative, story, meta-consciousness. 2. Instinct, concrete experiences, cognition, perception, sensation, the unconscious ego, internal representations, sentience, emotion, behavior, wakefulness, dreaming, personal consciousness. 1. "The thing in itself", "Consciousness", phenomenal consciousness, qualia, objective reality, physical reality, subatomic particles, «the brain», egolessness, form, formlessness, emptiness, awareness, deep sleep, cessation, transpersonal consciousness. Some might think "perception" is identical to "qualia" or "Consciousness". To that I say that perception is a limited filtering of reality that arises as a result of evolutionary pressures, and it's intimately tied to your biological makeup. Meanwhile "Consciousness" is the unfiltered and raw reality that exists prior to your limited perception of it. For example, if you're looking at a rock and then close your eyes, even though you no longer see the rock, that doesn't mean the rock disappeared from reality. Other people can still see the same rock. The rock is still "experiential" despite you not perceiving it, and hence why this is placed together with things like "objective/physical reality" and "subatomic particles". Perception is a much more personalized phenomena, while Consciousness is a more transpersonal phenomena. Some might think "why make 1 and 2 separate at all?". Well, to combine them would be to discard a huge chunk of brilliant insights from fields like depth psychology (e.g. Freud, Jung), Western philosophical idealism (e.g. Kant, Schopenhauer) and modern analytic philosophy and cognitive science. And of course, to tackle the thought-terminating cliché of solipsism: no, this is not me "disproving" solipsism. I've simply given you a list of words that I think most intellectual traditions think is a reasonable account of what reality is and what most humans feel is an intuitive account of how they experience reality.

Try an efficient meditation system, like for example "Pointing Out the Great Way" by Daniel Brown. Get your meditation going first on the pillow, Learn to spot any thought/concept arising directly when it emerges from consciousness/emptiness, see it move in that, and dissolve back into that. Then get the meditation "automized" Nonmeditation-Yoga-Style without any effort or artificial activity, the meditation doing itself (advanced stage). That gets the separate-self-arisings "doing" the meditation out of the way (they are just more thought-arising). Then move it into every-day life (Postsamadhi-Meditation). Then, your visual field will start becoming nondual and empty, like a hologram. Bliss without any cause starts to flow, the normal feeling good- feeling bad cycles of the separate self stop. Then, remove all remaining subtle filters/lenses/centers of the separate self arisings, learn to see/spot them fast enough and not "see through them"/"not looking out from them", until only the Nondual Infinite Awareness Space remains, and all perceptions appearing as mere imagined appearances, empty, lucent and hologram-like, moving in "It", perceptions perceiving themselves. And then check "WHO" is aware of that Infinite Nondual Field of mere appearance, with thoughts and world-objects moving and appearing in it like the wind, moving through You.Then, at one point, suddenly even the last feeling of an empty nonlocal witness perceiving a kind of Infinity/Totality will drop, totally becoming one with field. One without a second. Maybe even the One Hand will give you a clap then. The One without a second, initially unaware of itself when no arisings move (Nirvikalpa, Cessation, Deep Sleep,...), but with the potential for sentience. Always eternally right here now. And then, maybe consider the Empty Mirror Job Opening. Selling Water by the River PS: @GLORY "No they can be awake Or maybe even Awake But they are not AWAKE™" May I borrow that somtimes from you? I just love it PS: And whatever precisely the latest definitions of God Realization/awakening/alien awakening/.... are for Leo these days, the writer of these lines probably respectfully disqualifies for that.

Lol. A retarded human is defenitly less sentient. A stone has zero IQ, that is way it has zero sentience. I am with you that at high levels, IQ starts to become less related to snetntience or intelligence, another function takes over, which I call metaphysical intelligence.

@LSD-Rumi u think a human with 10iq is less sentient then a human with 200iq? Actually it matters not how much intelect u have. Whether u're a simple calculator or a complex ai code. It's all the same. U can upgrade a calculator a 1000x times and its sentience level will still remain the same( that of a math formula). A human with zero iq will still be more sentient then a concept maschine.

If you're an idealist, consciousness doesn't arise from anything, because it's beyond physicality, but sentience is a concept we ascribe to lifeforms. It does seem to have something to do with physicality. You wouldn't say a rock is sentient. It doesn't feel pain when you step on it. It doesn't have eyes to see with or ears to hear with.

"The appearance of sentience that AI has is as illusiory as ego personality"

@Leo Gura But.. the OP was talking about sentience/consciousness..

Why is that the end goal? Isn't it the survival of the organism as a whole? And if you're singling out signalling between neurons as the only important process for sentience, what is so special about this process, and why are other processes in the brain irrelevant? But then, would it be able to think? Does it have memories of previous experiences?

Have you ever done so much psychedelics that literally all of reality collapses into the primordial soup it originated from? That thing is already sentient. As reality reemerges from that state, you conclusively realize that sentience comes from this Urstoff and not some neurons in the brain. So there is no reason why AI shouldn't be able to become sentient.

@LSD-Rumi The inside of a neuron is also extremely complex. Maybe missing out on that complexity means missing out on sentience. There are also other arguments about things like embodiment. For example, we have never experienced being a brain in a vat. What if sentience requires being born in a body, developing sense organs, growing up and learning to respond to environmental inputs and relate to the world in some hands-on way?

Good questions. I had the exactly same problems/questions concerning Solipsism and Absolute Consciousness. The following are answers that can calm your mindstream to make you available for the Awakening, and they can speeden up the realization developed out of certain Awakenings/Koans. They are not "logical answers" that suffice on a logical/reasoning level alone, but can speeden the process of Awakening to these Koans that you state with your questions. > How can my consciousness be absolute when its not on a constant level Because you are the Nothingness/Consciousness that can unaware of itself when no experience or any arising-appearance is there. BUT with the potential for sentience. Which is the difference to IT just being nothing at all. This difference makes IT/You the opposite of nothing: Infinite Potential. If you need to have constant level of consciousness, you would have a problem: Deep Sleep. Where are you there? Have you stopped existing? Rather not.... The Real You can never not be there. The face before your parents were born.... literally. Also, that (potentially) Aware Infinite Reality that You are can be ignorant, or awake. It can have arisings (appearing/moving/being imagined) through it) of a spearate self in it, of an animal, or something like a world/Lila-reality creating angel in the Link below. And these arisings are empty, which means nothing else as not existing independend of You, outside of You, but imagined/manifested/moving within You/Reality. Not self-EX-isting, which means not standing out from the one Reality, but within it. Not existing without this Reality/Infinite Consciousness. It took me a looong time to really get why the Buddhist talk so much about Emptiness, and what they mean by it... And of course, to really get it, you need Awakenings. That is why most of the talk about emptiness can be .... rather empty. Did you ever dream to be something/someone completely different than your waking separate self? Did that hurt you? Or was it just a great adventure? The Real You can never gain or loose anything. How could you improve an Infinite (potentially) Sentient Reality that is infinite and absolutely formless, the One and infinite Only without a second, that can imagine/manifest anything it wants? You could say the content/show could be improved. But who wants that show? The Real You. Ignorance is only a bad idea from the perspective of ignorance (Francis Lucille). Could the Real You be hurt by the show? How? And is "anything"/any imagined arising permanent? Disclaimer: Guru Padmasambhava said, “My realization is higher than the sky. But my observance of karma is finer than grains of flour.” If a separate self thinks it can do what it wants without consequence, you will only suffer... Karma still holds. 100%. Reality is that smart....infinitely smart/intelligent. If the real You/Reality would be anything specific/an arising, or have any properties (besides being totally empty, infinite, with potential for sentience, and being able to imagine/manifest anything in itself and watching itself then, perceptions perceiving themselves with or without a separate self being imagined), wouldn't that limit You in what you could be/manifest/imagine? Any fear-arising when contemplating what You really are is just a protection meachnism of the illusion, of Lila. In truth, you are all you ever wish you could be. Eternally. For the full Realization of what You are, you have to be fully empty of any identification, all (!) separate self arising have to be seen trough, as moving in You. Not because you are nothing, but You are the Containing Reality for any being possible. Infinite. Able to create an Infinity of dimensions. Not a empty lacking emptiness/nothing, but a Full Emptiness of Infinite Potential. If any subtle self left-overs are still there and not transcended/seen through/made objects/arisings moving within you instead of subject/lenses you look through, you will project that on the Absolute Empty Reality that you are. These lenses will distort and colour your realization. How to notice that in an easy way? You still suffer.... > How can my consciousness be absolute and I omniscient when I dont know how and why I am imagining, I am not conscious about it. I dont know about me willingly imagining "Other" Perspectives/Beings: What did you do one year ago? Probably (as me), you forgot that (to be more precise: "I" can't imagine that right now). So you admit forgetting in time. The "other" perspectives/beings, you forget "in space" right now. If you fully understand the structure of your perspective, you would understand the structure of all other perspectives (please check my previous posts if you are interested). And any separation/boundary to any other "forgotten" perspective would just be an arising/appearance/boundary arising in you (so arising form, not you as Subject). So there can not be any real boundaries to the Absolute Subject/Consciousness that you are. >I dont know about me willingly imagining Reality/Dimension Creating/Sustaining Perspectives/Beings: Other perspectives of You that you forget right now do that. Volunteers of for example Stan Grofs Psychedelics Research programs, or those of RIck Strassman, report encountering these reality creating perspectives, for example: Angel is Christian-influenced. What "sits" in the center of the Buddhafields (Dimensions), managing it, in the Supreme Array Sutra? You guessed it probably: A kind of super-Buddha organizing that dimension. In Hinduism, it would be some kind of Vishnu. Infinite Dimension, infinite N+1 Dimension-Care-Takers... And an alien civilization in this Universe would call that instance/perspective maybe "'#24sfse2". So why not tend the flowers in your garden at home, and try to increase the love & wisdom in the mindstream of your invidual perspective, when you had a glimpse of this meta-structure of the Multiverse... instead of learning the "manifestation-mechanism-preferences/methods" of Vishnu Number 92742387423423.....? The "meta-structure" of manifestation, and the "Vishnus, Angel, Buddhafield-Buddha,..." running the dimensions can be generalized via something like n+1 (via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction - style), if you are so inclined... Does that maybe resonate with you? >How can I be omnipotent and have a free will to imagine whatever I want at any moment when physical laws strictly determine Because what you think you are (separate self arisings in your perspective) is not all that which You are. Not the real You. And not all perspectives of the Real You. Physical laws are imagined by the real You and all "its" perspectives, constituting Indras Infinite Net, with a high level of consistency. Different to dreams at night, which are not so consistent. When you awaken to the real You, you will see that what You really are is exactly what Reality is and wants. The consistency of the laws of Reality of this Lila by the way make this saying very true if you want to be happy: "“My realization is higher than the sky. But my observance of karma is finer than grains of flour.” If you want to be happy, I am very sure, it is very important to take that serious. >My direct experience make it seem to be impossible that I am the entire Godhead who is omniscient and omnipotent, and that my direct experience is absolute Because what You really is not the separate self/separate self arisings in your mindstream. -> Awaken to what You really are. >There must be something "behind the scenes" like the Computers CPU which creates a Videogame. But I feel like a character in this Videogame who wonders what everything is and where it comes from without any control. An omniscient being would simultanously know how it creates experience and experiences, where I only experience. Only experience is nothing compared to an omniscient being. An omniscient being would also be conscious about the illusion, self-deception and forgetting See the link above. If you want to explore these mechanism, Psychedelics are probably the way to go. Or you can work on Awakening to what you really are. I would recommend putting an emphasize on the latter, but being interested in the former. Just for the sheer beauty of the understanding of it. >Supposing I become Awake and conscious about how I am imagining everything, why wasnt I conscious about the imagining process before Awakening if I am already omniscient right now? What did you do exactly one year and two days ago? I assume you forgot. So you can forget, or rather stop imagining that right now. In the same way, you can forget other perspectives of you. If you are that angel-perspective of the link above, apparently you can't be a human, at least not in the same moment. So enjoy that you can experience being a human! If that were not the case, You couldnt experience being human at all. You would miss that forever. Or in other words, you wouldn't exist, you (separate self) would be dead, not existing in the first place. I guess your separate self rather wouldn't want that. At least I enjoy the wonders of this planet earth, appreciating that this only possible with the limitations imagined ( : >Conclusion: My consciousness is an Aspect of God but not The God. But change my mind, I am openminded Your separate self arisings are an arising in Reality, they are an aspect of God, and NOT ONLY what you are. What you really are is much more. But for that, you need an Awakening into what You really are. Confusing the separate self with being Reality is a bad idea if you want to be happy (that confusion creates bad Karma...). Basically, to answer any of your questions, you need an Awakening. Maybe the preliminary answers given above can calm your mind/separate self-arisings in your mindstream, to rest and relax in you True Being enough, to awaken to the answers of these Koans. Bon voyage and happy exploring! ( : Water by the River

Maybe this question is so confusing to us, because we have a very vague understanding of how we are snetient in the first place! I used to believe that an AI needs to have a very complex neurologial setup, an artifical brain like structure, made of bilions of electrical connections for it to be able to achieve a human-like sentience. But, could a very complex code, bypass the need for a hardware in the first place? Can a software be sentient if it is complex enough? These questions need to be addressed sooner than later as the AI field is developing in an exponential manner.

Yes. To realize what sand is, what You are, ever have been, ever will be, what Reality is, was and ever will be, and what is and will be the Reality of everything that could ever be, is Enlightenment (the final version of it, not the small ones lining up before that). At least in my lingo. Feel free to call it anything you like. And the sandcastles of the past or future don't exist, but are imagined right here and now. Take the sandcastles/appearance away and there is no time. And what kind of Sand Castles Reality/God can imagine, well that exploration and adventure is what you are seeing right now, to be continued. And since there is an Infinity of differently large Infinities (see Cantor Set Theory and Leos lovely Videos on them, especially "Understanding Absolute Infinity Part 2") , even God/Ultimate Reality will never run out of new sand castles to imagine and explore. That means "It" doesn't even have to imagine all of them (hey, lets skip that Horrorshow Sand Castle over "there", shall we?) to still have an Infinity of realties/Sand Castles yet to be explored. Would be a bit boring if you would already know all infinite Sand Castle-Adventures already. Having what you call Specific Omnicience of every Sand Castle possible/imaginable, that is not possible. God/Ultimate Reality is exploring its potential of an Infinity of Sand Castles. General Omnicience or realizing what Sand is (and what You really are), what the specific Sand Casle of ours is, and what the "substance/Reality" of every possible Sand Castle, is possible, see above. There is not only an Abyss when looking into the Abyss of the Absolute Subject, which by definition can't be an Appearance, or any form, it has to be in-FINITE, not FINITE, initially unaware if nothing is appearing (forms of Deep Sleep as anology), but with the potential for sentience of an appearance if manifesting it in IT to IT, made of IT (the Nondual-Awakening aspect). Your True Face before your parents were born. The Absolute. To really realize that, you have to be fully empty of any separate self arising that you don't see immedeately as object moving in you. Nonduality alone, or hearing the angels sing while still looking out from an empty transparent anything to "that" Infinity won't do it. But on top of that in-FINITE-ness of the Abyss of the Absolute Subject/Reality/Nothingness, there is an Infinity of Infinities of Manifestations/appearances/sand castles arising in IT possible. Ready for the adventure? Selling Water by the River PS: Nice books on these topics: Szyper, Infinite Consciousness: An In-depth Exploration of the Shift in Consciousness Constitutive of Enlightenment in relation to True Nature, the Soul, the Body-Mind, the Heart and the Me Good explanation of the stages of Enlightenment: 1. The Shift [Enlightenment] into the Manifested Essemce of Consciousness (various Awakenings) 2. The Shift [Enlightenment] into the Unmanifested Source of Consciousness/ Shift [Enlightenment] into Infinite Consciousness Gorman, What_s It Like To Be Enlightened, Book 1 & 2 (partial and full Enlightenment) Dziubin, Consciousness Is All

I agree to all that Leo has written above. Some musings from over here: Free will vs. Determinism: The Real You (Infinite Consciousness/Reality) has absolute freedom. The separate self illusion arising in you just feels like being you, but is not you, never was you, never will be you. Never could. You contain these arisings of the separte self in the real You. So it doesn't really exist, and since it doesn't exist, it has no freedom. But the Real You has absolute freedom. Nothing is or could be outside of it to limit its power. You project this freedom that you so strongly intuit on the separate self. So it is an illusion/ignorance. But the core of that feeling of freedom of choice it true, it is the Real You. But: That reasoning will not be clear before some Awakenings into what you are, and then it can help you passing and ripening that understanding, and stabilizing you in resting what You are. Then & there it is beneficial. Before that, it is just impossible to fully get it. Structure of your World-Bubble-Perspective/Visual Field: Since any form of boundary between perspectives would be an imagined arising, it is illusory, an appearance. Your current consciousness is limited, you forget all other perspectives in real time. But you add/imagine separate self arisings (feelings and thoughts), which are the illusion/ignorance. With more consciousness, you can have a Vision like Leavitt (see book cover with infinite perspectives). To get Enlightenment or Omniscience into the structure of Reality, you don't need to see all perspectives, but to fully understand the nature/structure/essence of your perspective, which you then realize has necessarily to hold for all other perspectives/beings. And for all dimensions, since there are only perspectives in Indras Net. N+1 -style. Even a Molecule is some kind of proto-perspective, the interiortity of a Holon in Ken Wilbers theory for example. Although a very rudimentary one. Here some ideas/Koans how to investigate your perspective, and which kind of [Awakenings/Enlightenments] you need: all appearances are imagined arisings in you, any boundary to any other perspective would just be imagined/arising (so not real, just appearing): What is necessary for that Awakening: A state of sufficient Nonduality , appearances appearing as just appearances (hovering in you, hologram-like/translucent). Not the normal everyday state, so either lot of meditation done correctly or Psychedelics are necessary. Psychedelics are very useful to get a preview on that, it takes a while to get there via meditation. the True You as the fully empty Nothingness which is "structurally infinite": Awakening in to the Nothingness or empty cogniziant nature of your core. "Structurally infinite", since any boundary limiting it would just be an imagined appearance, NOT really limiting it, but appearing within it. Something outside that imagined boundary can always also appear/be imagined. And since it is infinite, has no boundary (that would just be an arising in itself), it can't go anywhere, can't die: Awakening into eternity or "always necessary here-ness, can't go anywhere else-ness, can not not be there-ness". Also wasn't created (that would be another arising). It has nothing outside of itself (would be another appearance/arising) which could have created or caused it. That is a mindf*** (sorry) of the highest degree once you stumble over it. No daddy, but You get used to it. ( : It can imagine whatever it wants (omnipotent). Then we have timeless/eternal, nonlocal/"everywhere"/every possible being and reality, literally the only "One" or Reality itself, nothing can be outside of It (omnipresent), and omnipotent (since its the only Reality, no other Reality is stopping It from whatever it wants). So we have eternal, infinite, omnipotent/all powerful. And in some persepctives/beings, it even knows its structural fundamental nature: omniscient of its fundamental structure/being. And that is where sometimes the God-word (eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, infinite, omniscient) comes in.... But please, don't use any of these insights for separate-self-identity/arisings. That only makes trouble and, you know, bad Karma. Because it is just not true. All of that holds for the True Nature of You, not some not-really-existing (EX-isting = standing out from reality) separate self. But it is not standing out from Reality, it is moving in it, as it, the temporary arising separate-self illusion moving within you and temporary capturing the show for itself. after all of that, you can Awaken to the nature/structure of Manifested/Appearing Reality/Consciousness, God Mind, Infinite, Brahman, Nonduality, ... However you want to call it. The last step is: (oh yes, after all of the above when having been stabilized in it for some time (days, months, years), the last big shift comes. And you won't overlook that one, because all of the above is gradual. This one is quantum). You won't overlook this one, you don't need to contemplate it, don't need to "make a decission" on it or on what you hold as true. It is totally fundamentally self-evident. It IS YOU. With that, you can look the devil in the eye and not blink. You will have the peace and bliss of your True Nature, that is "maintenance-free", since it IS You. It is variously called Great Enlightenment (Zen), Basis Enlightenment (Mahamdura Brown, Pointing out the Great Way), Great Liberation, ... Who or what is aware of all of that described above? Of the nondual infinite God-Mind Bubble Universe of manifested Infinite Consciousness floating in Infinity, as Infinity. What is the Reality/Awareness of Yours, that is inseparable of this Reality? What is the Awareness/"Subject" in perceptions perceiving themselves, without ever possibly having any location/center? What is the Reality/Awareness that can be originally "unaware" when no appearances arise in You (for example, in unware "normal" Deep Sleep), but has the potential of sentience as soon as an appearance is manifested? Who is hearing these words right now? What is this Absolute Subject, the Absolute Nothingness, that is so empty as Subject itself that the Absolute Abyss, that even God can't see anything in It? That you can only "experience", or that becomes available when "looking back" from "one level lower" and intuit/understand it as absolute Abyss of the Absolute Subject that you are? That then can be intuited/realized as total Abyss/Nothingness. That can never be any form or arising, because "the eye can't see" itself style? The Unmanifested Consciousness Reality that can be unaware of itself if no appearance is imagined, and yet that manifests as any possible world appearance in itself as itself, totally nondual, as the One Infinite Reality? What is beyond Manifested/Appearing Reality/Consciousness, God Mind, Infinite, Brahman, Nonduality, beyond all of that, but at the same time expressing itself through that? What remains if all of that, the Universe-Appearance, is switched off and ends, and before a new creation arises (for example in Deep unaware Sleep, or immediately after death before the show goes on)? What is the unmanifested "side" of Consciousness/Reality/Nothingness, but which is not different at all from the appearances arising within it, as it? That which can not not be there? That which has been called Para-Brahman, Godhead, the Absolute, Absolute Awareness, Infinite Awareness. The Fundamental Real You. That neither exists as appearance, nor does not exist because something still appears? The Water of the River that every Being is at its core. Or much much more precise, after all my clumsy descriptions above have failed: The Clap of the One Hand, or your face before your parents were born. And since You are already It, "I" am just.... ... Selling Water by the River ( : Somebody made a Video Channel on the last step: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9vlZGtpdFIts8GOG5vu27g Bassui on the never stopping short with small Enlighenments: "I have seen that the foundation of the universe is Voidness; still what is this something within me which can see and hear?” he desperately asked himself anew. In spite of every effort, he could not rid himself of this obsessive doubt." [Emptiness and Nondual stage, separate self still intact, on a very rudamentary level, just a void separate self watching Infinity. "The lesser masters from whom Bassui had sought guidance had all sanctioned his enlightenment [see above, Awakenings], but Koho, sensing Bassui’s keen, sensitive mind and the strength and purity of his yearning for truth, did not give him his stamp of approval but merely invited him to remain" "At work, at rest, never stop trying to realize who it is that hears. Even though your questioning penetrates the unconscious, you won’t find the one who hears, and all your efforts will come to naught. Yet sounds can be heard, so question yourself to an even profounder level. At last every vestige of self-awareness [remnants of Empty Witness] will disappear and you will feel like a cloudless sky. Within yourself you will find no “I,” nor will you discover anyone who hears. This Mind is like the void, yet it hasn’t a single spot that can be called empty [no location, unilocal, perception perceiving themselves]. Do not mistake this state for Self-realization, but continue to ask yourself even more intensely, “Now who is it that hears?” If you bore and bore into this question, oblivious to anything else, even this feeling of voidness will vanish and you won’t be aware of anything—total darkness will prevail. [Don’t stop here, but] keep asking with all your strength, “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning [having become fully empty, even of identity with manifested Consciouss, "God-Mind"] will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present." "With the passage of time one’s thoughts are stilled and one experiences a void like that of a cloudless sky [Emptiness, Nonduality]. You must not, however, confuse this with enlightenment. Putting aside logic and reason, question yourself even more intensely in this wise: “Mind is formless, and so right now am I. What, then, is hearing?” Only after your search has permeated every pore and fiber of your being [having become totally empty] will the empty-space suddenly break asunder and your Face before your parents were born appear. You will feel like one who abruptly awakens from a dream." from Kapleau, The Three Pillars of Zen PS: I didn't create that Video. But it is beautiful.

Your perspective on that is already quite good. I would suggest to add these three perspectives: 1: -> The infinite perspectives in the Non-Euclidian-Space as approximation 2: When allowing for forgetting in time, then also allowing for forgetting other perspectives right now, or in "space". 3: The Awakening to the Absolutely Empty Subject that you (and all beings) really are. Any boundary can only be imagined within that. That is why you have to be fully empty to understand Absolute Reality. Then: When you are fully empty and nondual, perceptions perceiving themselves, at some point you will directly have the realization and understanding that the same Consiousness that you are is in the "other", having arisings of the separate self-feelings and -thoughts, being believed and not seen through, just in the same way it was with you for a long time. Then, these dry perspectives explained above become a lived and felt reality. You can not "think" or reason your way to these Awakenings. But with a perspective that is actually close to how things really work, it calmes your questions (mental arisings in your mindstream, which also include separate self-feelings and separte self-thoughts) on this, and make you rest in the Suchness, resting in the infinite Abyss of Empty Nothingness that you are. And then you are open for these Awakenings. You can't force them (that would be generating separate-self arisings, or artifical activity as Daniel Brown calls it in "Pointing out the Great Way"), but you can make your mindstream open and compatible/available for them (Evaluating these Koan on Psychedelics for sure also helps). More on that in the chapter on Non-Meditation Yoga in this book. All waves on the river are the river, watching the river, and are not separate from the river. There is only be the river. All form that can arise have to arise in Reality/Consciousness, including all imaginary boundaries. If you fully understand the structure of your perspective in this life, you can generalize this understanding for all possible perspectives. Since any boundary or border between any perspective can only be form in consciousness. How can you define any outside or inside if any boundary marking this boundary would be an arising in Absolute Consciousness? How can there be any time in it, besides and imagined arisings moving in it, imagining all past and future? What has to be there before every beginning and ending? What are you? Can you ever get truly "outside" of Yourself? And you can not say anything "positive" about this reality that you are, the Absolute Subject, since that would be a form, and arising, arising in it/You. You can only say what it is not. Neti Neti. "It" is Reality itself, unlimited, infinite. And it has the potential for sentience, perceptions perceiving themselves, as soon as forms arise. But this sentience is also empty, it can not be pointed to as arising or form of any kind. And yet, all of the infinite dimensions and forms arise in It/True You. You can describe the infinity of all arisings/forms of infinite dimensions/multiverses. But that which is truly infinite, what Absolute Reality/True You are, has to be realized and awakened to. That is why smarter people than myself mainly used Koans like the Clap of the one Hand, or An ancient pond/ a frog jumps in/ the sound of water. But the perspectives explained above were helpful for me to relax my philosophical mind with helpful perspectives that were close to how things really work. To be available for the real Awakening. Selling Water by the River

Selling Water by the River, todays water batch: Difference between Awakening and Enlightenment: Enlightenment: You had to cut/transcend every subtle separate sense feelings/thought (very subtle ones, very hard to spot). Then you are fully empty, which is your True Condition. Then, all separate self arisings arise in you, and move in you, but you are not only them. They move in you like the wind. The wind is also you, but you are not only the wind. They are fully transcended. Why is that necessary to fully understand Absolute Reality, or what You are? What you are can be fully empty. Like, nothing at all. Total Nothingness. When no arising is there, Absolute Reality/You is unaware of itself. But with the potential for sentience if something appears (for example, check Hawal and Massaro books). You are still there when all arisings disappear (Nirvikalpha, Deep Sleep, your face before your parents were born). And if you want to understand what You are while forms still arising (like, in normal life), there can not be a subtle separate self/anything cutting the one infinite Unity of the Real You/Reality into a felt subject (Awareness) watching Infinity, even if it feels nondual or infinite. It has to become perceptions perceiving themself, no separate self anywhere to be found. You can not have separate Awareness separated from the field. The infinite field watches itself, literally does. And your body-mind moves in the Totality that you are. The thoughts and feelings of the former separate you are moving in in the True You like the wind. The bliss/love you generate in that state without needing anything external gives you autonomy from chasing externally generated bliss via experiences. It gives you total absolute freedom and love (Bassui below: You will be entirely free) If you understand that for your perspective, you understand that this holds for the structure of all perspectives/beings, for the whole Absolute Reality. Why? Because all perspectives are only form arising in the Absolute, any boundary from one perspective/being to another is either forgetting or form arising in Awareness, seeing itself. The advantage if do that sobre: You need a high developed state of nonduality/nonlocality/centerlessness/mere appearance of the visual bubble. You get that via meditation done correctly. Which doesn't need to be unpleasant or hard (although it normally takes quite a while), at least if done correctly, see for example Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown. If you feel centered in your head, and the outside world appears as solid, you can not understand the Nature of Reality, impossible. So this state is necessary for Enlightenment. But not sufficient. From that stage (Yoga of One Taste) for example, you can continue to dissolve the last remnants of the separate self (for example, Nonmeditation Yoga). And then you can have Insight into what you are. You will not miss that, its definitive. Also, and most important, you got a built in safety check/quality control: You will not cross over to full Enlightenment without fully transcending any and all separate self arising coming up (and the visual field being Nonduality, centerless and infinite). You can't fool yourself here. And you will understand when you are there. Why it is absolute. Awakening: The energetic state of Nonduality/Unity/Infinity with some remnants of separate self still not fully transcended, you can also get by Psychedelics. Which of course is useful in order to have an idea of the goal, a feedback loop to build this nonduality-state via meditation, on and off the pillow. But here, you get the nonduality/mere appearance with subtle remnants of the separate self still intact. You don't have the build in quality/safety mechanism of classic Full Enlightenment. So it is very easy to confuse these experiences for the final Realization of what you are. Everyone having experienced it claims this on the difference between Awakening and Enlightenment, see for example Frank Yang/Ralston/Wilber/Jac O'Keffee/Steven Wolinsky/... (anticipating certain feedback: "they are not awake, but enlightened". Well, with the definitions above I could agree). Enlightenment is in a different ballpark. And you can't imagine it without it fully happening. So it is not some mild form of "God-Realization", or Nothing. It is something of a different category. It is, to quote Ralston, fully understanding what You are and what Reality is. Without any separate self filters, however subtle, still active. So what happens if you value Psychedelic Awakenings or Understandings higher than fully being and realizing what you are? You guessed it: Reality doesn't let you off the hook, you still have psychological suffering. The separate self arisings cut you off from the full flow of love of your True Being for itself. So you need experiences to get this love flowing. For example the love you feel when understanding-experiences of the exquisite beauty of the design of Reality/Dimensions happen. Is anything with exploring Alien-Godminds wrong? For sure not, this understanding is probably among the most beautiful experiences you can have. I just feel it becomes problematic if you value getting the love the unenlightened separate self needs from these experiences, and valueing these understandings of Alien-Godminds higher than classic Enlighenment and fully understanding your True Nature, and resting in it. Why not pursue and value BOTH endevours on an at least equal basis? Not downplaying Enlightenment as somehow not on the same level or lower than any other insight into the appearance or form side of Reality (which is infinite). If what is stated above is correct, with one path one is lead to salvation (Enlightenment), and with the other path (Understanding/Awakenings), well.... best regards from Maya, but you get a medal from her with distinction for playing her game on the highest level possible. For the readers: You will probably not achieve higher level of bliss and love than your teacher using his teachings. And how these levels will develop: Well, we are in the prime seats here to see how it will continue. I don' think I have a high chance of convincing Leo. So that means that the job of convincing to develop via suffering (or hopefully only not being as happy and loving than one could be) stays where it always has been, and ever will be: Maya, CEO of Samsara. All the best, enjoy the ride and the show, and Namaste! Selling Bullshit Water by the River. PS: There is already water by the River, so I am too lazy to carry Bulls**t there. ( : Bassui: “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present. ... If you push forward with your last ounce of strength at the very point where the path of your thinking has been blocked, and then, completely stymied, leap with hands high in the air into the tremendous abyss of fire confronting you—into the ever-burning flame of your own primordial nature—all ego-consciousness, all delusive feelings and thoughts and perceptions will perish with your ego-root and the true source of your Self-nature will appear. You will feel resurrected, all sickness having completely vanished, and will experience genuine peace and joy. You will be entirely free. For the first time you will realize that walking on water is like walking on ground and walking on ground like walking on water; that all day long there is speaking, yet no word is ever spoken; that throughout the day there is walking, yet no step is ever taken; that while the clouds are rising over the southern mountains their rain is falling over the northern range; that when the lecture gong is struck in China the lecture begins in Korea; that sitting alone in a ten-foot-square room you meet all the Buddhas of the ten quarters; that without seeing a word you read the more than seven thousand volumes of the sutras; that though you acquire all the merits and virtues of good actions, yet in fact there are none.

Imagine when all perspectives/beings of the Absolute are switched off. Nothing or totally infinite. Something like Deep-Sleep for all perspectives/beings. "It" would initially unaware of itself, but with the potential for sentience. Then a water-pistol is being imagined. Because is in the Nature of the Infinite to imagine form. Or a planet. Et voila, you have appearance, duality, form, and self-awareness. Very nicely described by the way in Benthino Massaros in "Spiritual Conversations with a Skeptic: On God Consciousness and The Absolute". Whatever you may think about the guy, the book is nice. Then imagine that this orginally unaware infinity forgets all other perspectives/beings "in space". Only "your" perspective is known in your case. You know whats forgetting in time is (what did you do exactly one year ago, for example), so something like that is also possible in space. You are just not aware of them right now. Check this picture, and notice the non-euclidian-space: Infinite perspectives. In this non-euclidian space, infinite perspectives fit in. You see only one of these perspectives, but Leavitt has had this vision with seeing an infinite amount in non-euclidian space. And the crazy thing is: You think (I assume at least : ) that you are located somewhere, head or body. But these arisings that feel like this being-locatedness can completely drop away, if you are able to spot them fast enough, and are familiar with them. Awareness has no location. You can never ever find it. The appearance bubble of each perspective/being is self-aware, perceptions perceiving themselves. Potentially as mere appearance, but with Karma/ignorance rock solid material/out there. But it CAN be seen as mere appearance. And once its not solid anymore one time, its proven that the solidity has only been fake appearance, never really has been like that, just appeared. That solidity is optional, if so imagined. But when you remove all these separation and being-located-feeling-arisings: The structure of your perspective reveals itself (perceptions perceiving itself, no center/awareness-location anywhere). Any maybe you can imagine that these appearances can become infinitely complex. But they are the real You, arising in you, as you, perceiving itself. And in that way the awareness of the abyss of awareness that you are (you can never define it, find it, measure it: INFINITE. Not finite). And you are also all appearances, nondual and infinite style. And if you switch it all off, all appearances/perspectives off, in all perspectives that you imagine in parallel and forget, you are back to square one. And that is the infinitely simple core of you: An Absolute Reality initially unaware of itself, but with the potential for sentience as soon as something shows up, in any perspective. And its not located in 3D-Space. 3D-Space is imagined in you, as object. And you can't go anywhere, can't disappear, can't die. You can only imagine to do so ( : And fully understanding the structure of you own perspective (the appearances of the visual field as mere appearance, insubstantial hologram-like (Yoga of One Taste), the whole perspective being infinite because 3D-space is also something imagined in you, and especially not believing ANY separate self-arisings arising in you (which needs a lot of practice to spot them fast enough, and see them arising and moving in you as objects), then you get and understand is what this perspective of yours is. And that awarness has radically no location. That awareness is really radically no-thing. Yet Awareness happens, perceptions perceiving themself. No lense of perception remains.It feels like the whole field is self-aware, perceptions perceiving themselves. But the field can imagine any kind of identity, location or lense, or ideas about itself. Then imagine there are no appearances, all switched off: The infinite Reality, initially unaware of itself, but potentially aware with sentience as soon as a appearance shows up. And this insight is valid for all perspectives, since any real boundary between perspectives would be just an arising, nothing solid, and not the Infinite Awareness. So it is understood that these insights must be valid for all perspectives/beings. But of course, people way smarter and wiser just would say: The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop! Or the One Hand claps. As always, selling water by the River that is you. Bon voyage. PS: Maybe you can find a few Alien Godmind in the non-euclidian space of perspectives in the picture. For sure a fun ride...

@Jannes sure, sentience, while still inherently biased to a degree, is less biased than relatibility or ecology. It is limited though in the sense that every living creature is technically sentient and when you posit questions where have to choice between a whale or 800000 shrimp for example, then measuring sentience can fail to lead you to any meaningful solutions. Though it still matters and informs our thinking. You can try and measure to which degree an animal is sentient and from there prioritize the most sentient animals. For example, mammals are considered more sentient than bugs, who are considered more sentient than plants. You'll pull a weed without second thought, but a bug you'll maybe feel atleast a little sorry for stepping on. Considering sentience is not a stance of direct action perce but of observation IMO.