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I'm talking about living in nonduality (i.e., sahaja samadhi as the 'awareness-state'), in which well-Being is not dependent on anything experienced, unobstructed by any mental overlays with respect to existential questioning. I don't mind using verbiage that's playful, so I'm glad you responded so positively to the expression 'dealio'. I like to play in the waves of existence with gratitude. No reason to push. It's effortless. Mentating an existential puzzle takes effort. Putting it 'perfectly' back together takes effort. Can it be fun? Sometimes, sure, but it's not necessary for Peace. But, to be radically upfront and honest, it took a LOT of trying to do so before realizing the movement for what it was. Hugs, brah!

@SOUL 🧠 What does "jumping levels" mean? It refers to a shift in the level of abstraction, perspective, or logical depth in a conversation — often without explicitly acknowledging that shift. Instead of staying with the immediate, practical, or concrete level of discussion, someone jumps to a meta-level — a higher, more abstract reflection about what's underlying the discussion itself. --- 🔄 In context: Original level (Level 1): > “Let’s not confuse classical nonduality (Rupert Spira) with radical nonduality (Jim Newman). They are very different paths.” ⬇️ This is a concrete, specific distinction between two spiritual approaches. Jumped level (Level 2): > “Confusion itself isn’t in the teachings. It’s in how we perceive them. Once you see that, there's no real confusion at all.” ⬆️ Now we’re no longer comparing teachings — we’re talking about the nature of confusion itself, philosophically. --- 📊 Analogy: Changing the dimension of a discussion Imagine someone’s playing a chess game and says: > “You shouldn’t move your queen there, it’s too risky.” And the reply is: > “Chess is just a human invention. None of this is real.” That might be true at a philosophical level, but it’s not useful if the conversation was about actual strategy within the frame of the game. --- 🧘‍♂️ Summary: > “Jumping levels” means switching from talking within a framework to talking about the framework itself — from the content to the context, from distinctions to the mechanics of making distinctions. It can be wise or annoying — depending on timing, clarity, and intention.

@Sugarcoat So, my explanation will be a bit all over the place - ultimately if you follow Leo's work, (which will also point you to the importance of studying other relevant teachers), do hardcore meditation retreats, and use psychedelics and self inquiry and deconstruct the ego and have tons of mystical experiences you'll be able to understand for yourself better than anyone could ever explain. But here goes - the way i understand it is that Reality has a sort of infinite Logic to it. And basically if you ask powerful enough questions, you will eventually find infinity/Love/Reality/Truth in anything. And so i suppose we could start by asking "what is anything?", or what is A THING? I sat with this question for years - and had the insight that i have no fucking clue, because i need an infinite chain of causality to explain ANY particular "thing". Because no one "thing" or "form" can really have an existence of it's own, separate from Infinity, things are actually infinity itself. Basically any "object" is actually how infinity looks and sounds and feels like, as if from the outside. Every "thing" is a distinction made in Reality, by the instrument of the survival mind. The survival mind is also paradoxically a distinction made by the survival mind. Then we can sort of ask - well, then... every thing is actually EVERYTHING? What type of "thing" can be paradoxically everything and not everything at once like that? This is where human language starts to really break down. The answer is Paradoxical. NO THING. Literally there is NO "thing" that can do or be everything. A bottle is by definition (of the human mind) a bottle, and not anything else But another way to read that sentence is Nothing CAN Do/Be Everything. So... In Reality, there are no multiple things. There is just one big fat, Ultimate Thing of All Things - Anything/Everything/Nothing. It's just that the human mind's idea of relative nothing does not realize that Real Nothing is Infinite. In the Imaginary Time Before Time, what was there? Of course it's infinitely logical that the answer is Nothing. Nothing is the only "thing" that "needs nothing" to exist. And luckily, Nothing "HAS" Nothing 🤣 AND SO IT "IS/Was" Thing is (<--- LOL, the cosmic joke baked into language) by the same Logic, Nothing needs nothing to be anything, everything, infinite. When you take any "thing" and make it infinite, it stops being that finite thing, and it becomes Infinity itself. So Nothing was never "just nothing". It always was Infinity, therefore it always was both nothing and everything, and every other duality/nonduality in infinity. So it was, is, and always will be the case, that infinity is the only possibility. Because Nothing Always Was, Is And Will Be - INFINITY. See the infinite logic? By that same logic we can contemplate the twisted, crazy nature of infinity, and realize, as Leo wonderfully explained, that Infinity has, by definition, infinite EVERYTHING - including Intelligence, Wisdom, Consciousness, Will, Power, etc. And so, we could say, that it Always "knew" what is THE Most Awesome, Most Perfect, THE Absolute Highest State, THE Best fuckin "THING" that IT can ("CHOOSE to") BE What is that THING? Infinite Self-Love, of course!!! It's perfectly logical!!! But... What comes next is an attempt to explain why explaining through human language any further is simply dumb and weird and pointless: THERE IS NO SUCH "THING" - Any such "permanent thing" leads to evil, aka an eternal prison. (And yet it needs to ALSO paradoxically be an eternal prison, or it wouldn't be infinite) So the Highest Gift it could ever give itself is to ... Not have a Self. To be Absolutely... Selfless NOTHING. (And yet again it also has to have a self to be infinite, hence you are here reading this) But it already was Nothing, so it didn't even have to choose, cause it doesn't even have a self that can choose, and yet that's what the selfless self HAD TO choose, by both choosing and not choosing to have to and not have to choose, because it Already Always was Nothing, etc TO INFINITY!!! POINT IS Nothing IS Reality, Nothing IS Truth, Nothing IS Infinity, Nothing IS All "Finitudes", Nothing IS The Highest Love. Hence Reality is Love Lol But still, all of what i said can be corrupted by ego, from this human state of Consciousness, so like i said, we all gotta dig deep for our...selves, cause otherwise language just turns into mush, sort of how it did here at the end. Did any of it make sense? Final insight: Any dualistic conclusion has the following infinite answer: Yes. No. Yes and no. Neither yes nor No. Both yes and no and neither yes nor no. Neither yes and no and neither yes nor no. Both both yes and no and either yes nor no, and neither yes and no and neither yes nor no. Etc etc etc See infinity? 😊♥️

Seeing no differences is indeed the purpose of nonduality but the thread is not called "what's the ultimate purpose of nonduality" Your comment is indeed interesting and adds an interesting perspective but it's just odd and out of context imo. Like Sugarcoat sayed people can say valuable things even if its unrelated. Honesty i have no idea how i got here and why im pointing this out.

First, I'd like to point out how I'm replying post 7777 of yours... Now, to the point of your message in that post. I guess according to you I am only allowed to talk about the differences of something that doesn't actually have differences in nonduality or as I called it, metanonduality. Ok, maybe in typical nonduality there are classical and radical differences, which is why I chose to illuminate in metanonduality there are no differences and the confusion is from a perception in dualism. Which is the point of nonduality, right? To not get trapped in the confusion of relative perceptions from duality? I suppose some people prefer to argue about the relative differences in something that doesn't exist. So go right ahead, my post shouldn't stop you from doing that...

So you didn't notice the part about nonduality in my original comment? I can admit it was written cryptically in a sort of riddle but if someone could understand what was being said through it the comment has direct relevance to confusion, conflation and differences between 'types' of nonduality. There are only confusion, conflation and differences from the dual perspective, from the nondual perspective and more specifically, the metanonduality, those aren't there. It's simply the paradox of being aware of what one isn't aware before being aware of it. A teacher cannot present a lesson the student cannot grasp, the ideas have to be contextualized for the level of the student, or they won't be useful to them. You have to teach a child how to write before you can teach them to write a book.

It's a thread about the confusion and conflation and differences between classical (Rupert spira) and radical type of nonduality (Jim Newman) . You're talking about the nature and mechanics of confusion in general which is a completely different topic imo.

So you don't recognize how this is relevant in a 'confusion about nonduality' thread? Um...ok.

Oh, I thought it was just a joke which would have been fine. Simply put, my point was that any confusion one may have about nonduality stems from the perception of it or what someone is teaching about it. Nonduality doesn't have separation within it, it is the unified in its absolute nature.

Once one perceives metanonduality it is realized there is no duality in nonduality to be confusing, there's just perception of nonduality that some may confuse as confusion.

I've addressed it by saying Rupert spira's nonduality is the true way and radical nonduality is a fake spirituality.

Nonduality is like Rupert Spira being aware of awareness, consciousness being aware of itself, look at me i‘m Rupert Spira i wear glasses 🤓 and have a British accent i‘m so woke. Here is what you can do to become more aware Radical Nonduality is like Tony Parsons and Andreas Müller, there is nobody, bo meaning, nothingness being everything. Look at me i‘m nothing 😎 there is nobody who can do anything. Alright thanks guys and glad we talked about it.

PS - Here is an additional pointer for those who may be slow or reluctant to (in this case quite literally) put all of the pieces together: One thing that my "theory" implies is that so-called enlightenment is not a state, meaning that it's not the experience of a specific quality such as oneness, timelessness, emptiness, formlessness or no-self, but rather the unification of all states / qualities / facets of reality: Oneness AND multiplicity, time AND timelessness, fullness AND emptiness, form AND formlessness, self AND no-self - in short: ALL of reality. So if you feel like you are experiencing a "permanent" nondual state, then keep going... you have made a crucial first step by shifting from a dual to a nondual perspective, but now it is time to transcend both duality and nonduality by bringing them together and seeing the full picture. (Of course, none of this is prescriptive. If you prefer to stay attached to a certain relative perspective, then by all means, go ahead - your body-mind, your choice. You can even choose to pretend that you don't have a choice, if that's what floats your boat. I am just pointing at the bigger picture here... do with it what you will.) 😌🙏🤎

What if I told you that most of your personal development, political action, and even spiritual work is backward? That you’re operating from surface-level techniques while ignoring the deep architecture underneath? A conscious Actualizer has sent in this brilliant, elegant framework that models the full pipeline of transformation — from the highest ontological foundations to the most grounded, real-world action. Here it is: Core Theory → Principles → Models → Strategies → Tactics → Competencies → Techniques → Actions This is not just a list — it’s a meta-epistemic ladder. It describes how abstract understanding crystallizes into physical behavior. Let’s break this down through some Spiral Dynamics, politics, and mediation examples to fully grasp its depth. 🔹 1. Core Theory (The Ground of Being) This is the ontological and metaphysical substrate. What is reality? What is self? What is the mind? What is truth? A Tier 2 Yellow worldview might root its core theory in nonduality, systems thinking, evolution, and holism. It sees no isolated objects, only dynamic interbeing. In politics, a Green+ core theory might begin with: “All life is sacred, interconnected, and inherently valuable.” Without this level of clarity, everything downstream gets infected with ego, tribalism, and unconscious projections. 🔹 2. Principles (Universal Axioms) From your core theory emerge guiding laws. These aren’t rules — they’re deep patterns of reality. From a nondual core, you get principles like: All opposites are ultimately unified, Development is recursive, The map is not the territory. In mediation, a principle might be: Conflict is the result of misalignment with truth or shadow repression. 🔹 3. Models (Cognitive Frameworks) Models are mental scaffolds that help you navigate complex domains. Spiral Dynamics is a model — it translates abstract developmental theory into a practical tool to understand human culture and psychology. Integral Theory, Game B, The Polarity Map, the Hero’s Journey — these are all models that bridge the abstract and the pragmatic. 🔹 4. Strategies (Intentional Roadmaps) Strategy is how you move through life with intelligence. It’s long-range, meta-aware, and flexible. In conscious politics, a Yellow strategist might focus on memetic evolution rather than winning debates. In mediation, a strategy might be: “Raise the level of awareness in the room rather than solve the surface-level issue.” 🔹 5. Tactics (Immediate Tools) These are the actionable maneuvers you use to execute your strategy. Spiral Dynamics-aware political tactics: shift language based on value system, frame narratives through empathy not logic. Mediation tactics: mirroring, naming emotions, reframing identity conflicts. Tactics only work when aligned with deeper strategy and models — otherwise, you’re playing whack-a-mole with ego. 🔹 6. Competencies (Embodied Capacity) Competencies are who you are — your trained, felt sense of capability. Cognitive empathy, emotional regulation, somatic sensitivity — these are competencies. You can’t mediate conflict if you’re reactive. You can’t do systemic politics if you can’t think in systems. 🔹 7. Techniques (Concrete Practices) Journaling. Somatic inquiry. Visualizations. Shadow work. Spiral Wizardry. Techniques are essential, but they must be plugged into your entire framework. A cold shower is pointless if your entire worldview is toxic. 🔹 8. Actions (The Final Manifestation) Behavior. Observable. Measurable. But without the layers above — actions are empty rituals. Posting on Twitter vs. building conscious communities. Arguing online vs. embodying compassion in political discourse. Giving advice vs. modeling awakened living. 🌀 Spiral Dynamics Example: Core Theory: Evolutionary consciousness is the telos of life. Principles: Value systems are nested, transcendent-inclusive. Model: Spiral Dynamics. Strategy: Facilitate value system transitions in individuals and cultures. Tactics: Use memes, education, emotional intelligence. Competency: Ability to detect meme-level, speak across Spiral, resist egoic judgment. Techniques: Value system typing, conflict de-escalation. Actions: Building post-rational educational platforms. 🔮 Why This Model is Revolutionary This is not just a framework for productivity or self-help. It’s a consciousness technology. It maps how Being condenses into Doing. You can use this model to: Design more conscious political interventions. Create deeply transformative coaching or therapy protocols. Mediate conflict not from ego, but from Soul. Align your daily habits with your metaphysical understanding. This model empowers you to ask: “What layer of this problem am I working from?” “Is my strategy misaligned with my model?” “Am I doing tactics that sabotage my principles?” This is meta-cognition, meta-leadership, and meta-being in one. This is how real conscious architecture is done.

From a radical nonduality perspective. There is no one. So what ever appears. Cancer, god realisations, bloating etc. appear for no one.

No self and nonduality is not solipsism my dear maga mod. Ask chat gpt.

Could you ask Leo to give us a radical nonduality section so i don’t have to argue with you guys. It‘s like as if we speak different languages.

Neo-Advaita philosophy is false; it relies on a dualistic foundation to claim nonduality. Silence is true; the mind, body, psychological structure, and world are false, maya. Therefore, I am non-dual by pretending that what I deny as "false" doesn't exist, when obviously exist, then I categorize it as "illusory". Seems like making an effort to have a mental disease

As the zen master say: You have burnt the boat before crossing the river. Cross the river, then leave the boat, no use, true. Yet you cannot do it before. It's only after you transcend ego that it is seen as always already an illusion, but you cannot convince yourself otherwise before the true awakening happens. So the great irony is that you are deluding yourself with something that is true. How twisted! The trap is that your claim is a priori when it can only be done a posteriori. No serious nonduality teacher or meditation expert would buy you that. The ones that say it are at a stage where they have done two decades of grinding sadhana to say just surrender. Which is ridiculous to give that advice to beginners, why? Because you can only be in natural spontaneous surrender after the awakening and realizing selflessness. I myself am perfectly effortless and awake after a medition and psychedelic intensive. Yet I do not fall into delusion before doing it saying oh if I just sit efortlessly in my couch I'll be enlightened and there's nothing my "I" can do. This is the position you're holding really. A true position that you cannot claim because you aren't conscious enough. You've just borrowed a higher truth than what you have awakened or embodied. Then when somebody points it out you hide behind this higher truth and feel so good about yourself. It's true! Of course, I do know but do the work, fucking awaken to what is beyond ego. It's the biggest blessing

@James123 It's all oneness anyway. Does the form in which it manifests really matter? The relative exists within the absolute, like mirrors in which the absolute recognizes itself/plays, or whatever. Dreams exist; the fake is real in the relative sense. This is the message of Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, and their successors. The more we crave this ephemeral nonduality, the greater our resistance to duality. There's no need for that, imo.

"Thinking" is the universe, same than anything else. There is no difference between thinking and silent or a dog, they are planes of existence between infinite possible planes. To believe that conceptual thinking is some kind of silly human error and that you have to make an effort to keep your mind free of thought is to create a fundamental duality and then claim to be a master of nonduality.

Before fruit nonduality after fruit duality, knowledge and suffering.

Cool. Have you read "Discovery of the Presence of God: Devotional Nonduality" by David R. Hawkins?

Still confusing nonduality with absolute truth, are we?

Ass is my achilles heel. This is not a nonduality joke. When I see a nice ass, all spiritual training flies out the window, and I become weak, almost helpless. Damn, that ass! So far, the only way out I found is self-extermination.