SOUL

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Posts posted by SOUL

  1. Posted

    I came across him more than a decade ago and there was always something about him that was off putting but I could never really put my finger on what it was.

    I just watched some of his recent stuff and now it's very clear to me what it is. Very logical way of trying to systematize his experience and another who thinks their perception is the ultimate truth that most everyone but him can't understand. He holds alot of grudgy and judgmental energy much like Peterson does, in many ways he's a precursor to JP.

    This leads to a lack of well being in him and his effect on his followers doesn't seem geared towards well being, it's an exercise in 'I'm right' and 'I know the truth' in an egoic stroking.

    Then I came across some really yikes comments from him about eugenics...or as he called it 'soft eugenics' that he tried to backtrack from it as it appears he realized how this would be received. How people should apply to have children and other people, the ultra-intelligent would decide who is or isn't allowed to breed and what traits are the desired ones.

    Of course he put himself in the group of people who would be the deciders and how they should be the ones who controlled society....even though he constantly whines about the others who he doesn't like or respect he thinks controls society. Again this stinks of the self appointed authority of all that is right and good that Peterson also exudes in his attitude.

    Other than that his ideas are pretty common in the quantum consciousness ideology that has been circulating in the new age for like 50 years except he uses alot of complicated jargon to make it sound especially esoteric because he's still battling with a self induced conflict with a perceived opposition.

    We can see the fruit of someone's inner work in how they behave and for all his high minded ideas he comes across as still self suffering. So if liberation is something you seek in experience I'm not sure he's got much for you.

    It's not a matter or right or wrong, true or false and good or evil for me, it's about cessation of self suffering, liberation is the fruit I cultivate.

    Though to each their own way.

  2. Posted

    It is a common self justifying exercise for one to insist on projecting their own experience onto others. Through the perception of 'oneness' and the 'absolute' there is tendency to view it as universally 'true', that it's the only 'truth'.

    Is it not fulfilling to experience well being in your own perception of 'what is' that one has to tell others that your own view is the 'truth' for everyone? If they don't mirror the same your experience it's 'false' and they are delusional.

    Genuine liberation frees one from the desire, need or even the habit of 'truthifying' one's own experience and 'falsifying' another's experience. No matter how 'deep' one thinks they view from all of the perception is in our imagination.

    Being awareness doesn't require validation to be as it is.

  3. Posted · Edited by SOUL

    There's really different aspects to what you are speaking of.

    First we have something of a desire that isn't satisfied with the physical, it's the spiritual churning one might call it. Once we have found contentment in just being present we experience no lacking and realize we are complete so the churning ceases. In this we are fulfilled with as it is and experience transcendent well being.

    Which brings me to the activities of life, if we approach them already fulfilled and all the joy of being that is expressed through us then we bring joy to the activity not seek joy from the activity. Our joy isn't dependent on the activity and it's acumen or accomplishment.

    This sort of orientation allows one to recognize which of the activities in life we do that actually resonates with our joy so it reflects it back. It feels as if joy is amplified by things that resonate with our transcending joy even though in liberation we experience a complete sense of well being and bliss once the spiritual churning ceases so it is already maxed out in us.

    This doesn't mean we stop doing the things we love, we actually have a complete joy we bring to them so can elevate the activity. Of course since that joy isn't dependent on them the struggles and challenges to refine them are steeped in the genuine joy of liberation not conditional appeasement of the self.

    I know the intuitive perspective would be to say that the spiritual path would also require alot of effort but the reality of it can be quite counter intuitive. Just being doesn't require any work at all, realizing that transcendent  fulfillment in being present is the absence of attainment, it's recognizing already complete.

    So working hard to refine skill will allow one to achieve each next level but doing it while being present in realized completeness and fulfillment is an experience of joy that cannot be described though once one does experience it then it is understood.

  4. Posted

    Pardon me for parsing the map I hope this doesn't distract anyone from being present.

    'only in the imagination'

    Imaginary are things that exist 'only in the imagination'.

    Our perception of everything happens 'only in the imagination'.

    Both of 'imaginary' and 'illusion' are something that happens in the imagination.

    Except that imaginary is something that only exists in the imagination but has no existence apart from the imagination though may be imagined about something that exists outside the imagination.

    Where as illusion is something that isn't as it appears as perception in imagination yet may have existence apart from the imagination even if our perceptions of it are only in the imagination.

    The conflation of 'imaginary', 'illusion' and 'imagination' into essentially the same meaning of 'does not exist' obscures the 'map' of understanding our perception and experience.

    The rock exists apart from our imagination but we only perceive it's existence in our imagination and it is when the rock hits our head that the rock and our imagination realize the 'oneness' of it all.

    It's a challenge to bring clarity to the nuanced explanations of the difference between these concepts behind the words that get thrown around so often in this discourse. Many from both the advocates and critics of this with even some of the most educated and involved in the discussion fall prey to the clouding up the understanding.

    Fortunately a clear understanding of this confusing buzz word salad isn't a requirement or precursor to being present, we can simply be it...no map is needed.

    We can experience liberation without any of this, liberation isn't a result from having the 'right' or 'true' map... more like from burning all the maps.

    Liberation is the fruit of consciousness in just being.

     

  9. Posted · Edited by SOUL

    4 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

    Well its interesting...your not wrong in the sense that imagination literally is reality.   Which is precisely what a dream is.  Inside the dream you cannot tell the difference between real and imaginary because there is nothing to contrast it with. However if your state of consciousness changed in which you stepped outside that entire reality, only then would it be seen as imaginary.  And then you might wonder - well can you then step to another level of consciousness and step outside of that?  And the answer there is no because that is Infinity.  You can perhaps reach infinitely higher infinite states but at this point you are God Consciousness or Absolute Consciousness.   This is what all the sages discuss- Absolute Divinity- Absolute Love - Divine Bliss- Nirvana - Death, Oneness,  Truth, etc... That is not imagination - that is the thing (actually nothing) that imagines!.  Now note here I am just pointing to it.  The Tao is not the Tao, or something like that.    Now, Maybe I'm full of shit and imagining ALL Of THAT!! but hey maybe I'm not? :)

    So of course Mario inside the dream can be told by someone that hey this is all a video game, and if he is open enough he can say yeah sure - so if it is but I am imagining its real then what's the difference?  It IS real isn't it?  And of course he would be right :)

     

    That's quite the buzz word salad you replied with.

    All those concepts you suggest are not imaginary.....the absolute this, that and other things are in the imagination of the mind.

    They are concepts that get psychologically primed into people's paradigm of understanding. Yea yea.... but you saw it in direct experience so it's absolute truth!...uh huh, the reason you interpreted the experience that way was because of the priming that happened.

    I wasn't exposed to those concepts when I initially had direct experience so my perspective wasn't of that interpretation and as I have been exposed to the concepts it doesn't mold the perspective in experience I have.

    This isn't about which is right or wrong, true or false and real or illusion. It's all in the imagination.

    Our experience of being awareness is formless so we will overlay concepts to help understand it. Some people say those conceptual interpretations are 'truth' which is just the way the mind 'trusts' the experience is 'true'. Every new experience is filtered through this conceptual paradigm to confirm it's 'truth'.

    Don't get attached to the conceptual paradigm, it's just a map and the map is not the territory yet the territory is formless so really has no map. It doesn't matter if a million sages use the same map as you do, it's not the formless territory, it's just an interpretation of experience.

    I know my reply might sound like a buzz word salad too but I had to use something you may understand.

    Our experience is all in the imagination.

     

     

     

     

  10. Posted · Edited by SOUL

    Every interaction and perception of anything happens in the imagination of the mind. Everything from all physical senses of our body to the meaning that is gotten from arts or religion to the detailed explanations we get from mathematics and the scientific method. It's all in the imagination.

    Also as activity of the imagination is the inner work one does with the awareness, the consciousness expanding mystical experience.  No matter how deep the revelations into 'truth' and 'reality' one thinks they are having through meditation and/or psychedelics it's all just in the imagination.

    So when people try to contrast 'real' vs 'imaginary' as if they have some genuine insight let's realize it's imagination. When someone tries to define what is 'truth' for everyone suggesting it's a universal factual reality because of what takes place in their own imagination it actually doesn't reflect the nature of existence.

    So as you explore your own conscious experience stay aware that it is only in your imagination.

     

  11. Posted

    You would have thought that the guy might do the smallest amount of effort to establish they aren't mistaken and looked up the definition of 'illusion' but alas it appears they don't know it. The basic first step in the discourse was a misstep, they build the whole argument about 'illusion' around it meaning 'not real' when the definition is more accurately stated as 'not as it appears'. Rookie mistake.

    After watching that video then bouncing around watching some others on other things I am exploring this video popped up on the sidebar in recommendations and I recognized Don from his Ted talk I watched years back and this video is a great discussion on the very subject. It takes a real scientific approach to addressing the meaning of when people say 'illusion'. Fascinating stuff for sure.

    Not sure I agree with everything said here but definitely is something to contemplate and consider.

     

  14. Posted · Edited by SOUL

    2 hours ago, The0Self said:

    ^^ Definitely.

    For me it was when I was probably about 2 years old and had the realization that I had to go to the doctor every year to get a painful booster shot (vaccination/etc) and there was absolutely nothing I could do about it. This realization of inevitable suffering prompted me to look at my hands and say (for what reason I don’t really know) out loud: “It’s just... ME.” That was the dawning of self-awareness for this psyche, or perhaps a few months after its subtle beginnings.

    Well, sure, awareness of 'me' comes much earlier and quite honestly can be a more powerful motivator of behavior than the 'I' ls in many ways no matter what our age is.

  15. Posted

    All of us experience our first awakening in our youth when our consciousness finally matures to the point that we become aware of our consciousness, we awaken to our awareness and realize... 'I am!'. This is the moment when we finally are experiencing our consciousness with the meta-conscious aspect of it and not simply with the conditioned reaction to inner activity.

    An issue is we don't know it's happening, society doesn't alert us that it's happening or give us any insights to it's presence and how to use it. So we often blindly stay a slave to the conditioned mind for many more years, decades or even the rest of one's life if we don't ever have another awakening to our subconscious conditioning ruling the mind and behavior.

  16. Posted · Edited by SOUL

    Peterson is a fervent believer in hierarchical authoritarianism and the socially enforced 'traditions' so anything that questions the hierarchy and explores nontraditional expression to him is chaotic evil which he sees as 'destroying' his safety blanket belief system so he fears and hates it.

    It's one thing to derive meaning from the traditional but it's another thing to assign morality on it which Peterson joins in with the religious conservative ideologues that calls evil anything or anyone that doesn't adhere to what they deem 'traditional' values at any given moment.

    Traditions change and evolve with society so if some people are using it to publicly denigrate and actively discriminate against those that don't believe as they do it's antithetical to individual freedoms that he and those others talk out of the other side of their mouth do profess to support.

  20. Posted

    11 hours ago, Mason Riggle said:

    could it make 'other choices' than the ones it does make?

    That reasoning is a rhetorical ploy, obviously what happens is what happens, you can't make a point of the inevitable unfolding of the present moment as proof there was no potential for something other than what happens before we actually do what we do even if we don't do. Whether we do or not, we are aware of being.

    This is a naturally occurring psychological trait, that we are AWARE of the deed is what creates the intent in the deed. Even if you tally up the sum total of deterministic effects that accounts for the selection of behavior there still is this metaphenomenal aspect with our aware conscious experience of being present in the moment.

    Even if what happens is what happens, we are aware of the happening and this 'attention' creates the 'intention'. Within the mind we can envision any and all sorts of friction or harmony about this awareness of our being present in the moment of experience happening so can create misery or contentment for our mind as fruit of our imagination.

    So it doesn't really matter if free will exists or not, it's the nature of our manifest existence experience that even if we choose not to decide we still have made a choice.

    11 hours ago, Mason Riggle said:

    There's no magical 'free will' or 'self' hiding somewhere inside my organism telling my organism what to do, that separates me from 'other animals'

    This statement reveals so much about your perception and perspective on this matter and after reading my words above you may gain some clarity as to why it does.

     

  21. Posted

    @bejapuskas  That's cool, bro, I understand the frustration some may feel when someone tells them to essentially 'get over it' when they say 'transcend it' to a very real personal experience of discrimination or oppression in this world. I would not want to be this way.

    Although, if I were to break it down even further if someone were to say transcend the ego pain and suffering that can come from those types of experiences because it will allow them to heal and cultivate well being this I can agree with and suggest may be beneficial.

    This doesn't mean someone has to ignore the injustice that others may perpetrate upon them but if one is coming from the healing of well being when these types of situations arise they will act in accordance with the well being and not from the pain and suffering.

    So we can simultaneously transcend the ego attachment to the experience while also acting in accordance to well being that may actually have a positive influence on others and the circumstances. We can radiate well being through the experience and not allow others to inspire misery in us.

    This does not excuse those that would bring harm to others but it also recognizes they themselves are acting out of their own misery which is the motivation for the harm they would attempt to bring to others. We should not fail to acknowledge the cycle of suffering this world breeds and perpetuates.

  23. Posted

    @Enlightenment

    Let's me start off by saying that this isn't unusual for someone who is seeking well being through 'spirituality' to possibly have some aversion to what the world expects from us so don't let this bring too much conflict to your inner life.

    Secondly, I would add don't listen to people who will advise you from their own perspective of it because each one of us is so different that what they have in their circumstances of experience probably doesn't mirror yours so may not be helpful to you.

    That being said let me advise you from my own experience of a similar but undoubtedly not identical circumstances and I absolutely understand if you disregard the advice considering the advice I gave you about others' advice one paragraph earlier... haha.

    Allow me to begin by saying if your intention is to foster well being for yourself holistically as you suggest that will include everything.... your whole being. Which means the physical also is part of that and a part of physical is how we sustain our bodies' needs which in this world involves the monetary.

    I'm not going to suggest this means you should adopt the mindset and perspective of your parents or any other 'self improvement guru' but it would behoove you to examine your relationship to things like money, work, ambition, accomplishments and the like.

    Many of our concepts and ideas, self perceptions and expectations are ingrained in our psyche as a youth before we are even aware of our own self consciousness. So that when we are later looking at our own lives about what we seek we are using value sets that aren't even our own, they are the world's.

    So it may benefit you to clear your relationship to all of these. Severing the self identity attachment as a 'monk' would can be a powerful way to clearing the conscious experience for you. This doesn't mean it takes living like a monk in a cave but maybe just using the methods of inner work to heal your being.

    Allow yourself to learn the concepts and perspectives that resonate with your genuine being and you will be able to establish relationships to those things from a place of well being that are currently causing strife to you because they aren't founded in a perspective that resonates with you.

    It may be that right now the preloaded perspectives of unaware youth isn't conducive for you to find joy in these worldly things but with aware inner work you can bring joy from your well being to them and that which resonates with your genuine being will reflect that joy back so will foster more well being.

    I can't say what form that will take and which ideas, concepts and circumstances will be the ones that do resonate with you because that will be something only you will learn and know but there is a healthy path of well being in this world if you truly seek it.