Gennadiy1981
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Posts posted by Gennadiy1981
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Thanks @Vrubel for honest answer truly appreciate. You know no matter how much I contemplate I would be the same to choose tribalism over multiculturalism though it hurts me consciously that we are still not there nor maybe we were not meant to be there to begin with. You made very good points and notice I gave you an ideal situation, now factor all reality in it and the situation becomes technically where we are now. So then how far away we are from turquoise level society if one to ever even exist. Maybe it’s all utopia, a fairy tale that not possible to be achieved?
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39 minutes ago, Vrubel said:We need to separate like I described to you. But Israeli Arabs definitely have to stay in Israel because that's what they deeply want and it's "unconstitutional" to transfer them. Likewise, I think it will satisfy (moderate) Israeli settlers if they can continue to live in their biblical heartland even if it is under Palestinian sovereignty. But yes, Israel, the Jewish state has to be majority Jewish there was never a question of doubt about that.
Like if the Palestinians were a super advanced people we could start contemplating one state but the reality is that they are extremely low so it's not worth exploring that option unless you want to turn Israel into a dysfunctional mess worse than Lebanon.I get your point about being on the higher ethics and that is what the Torah speaks that at the end of times we should be an example to nations.
Going back to my second point, hypothetically, if Palestinians tomorrow become like Swiss people, high consciousness, like Europeans who would become stage orange, would you personally be ok to make one state solution and be done with the Jewish character so basically Israel would stop existing as a Jewish state?See on one hand, if we are on such high intellectual level wouldn’t all people be equal in our eyes? But on the other hand, I think the major card and it’s deep in the consciousness whether we like it or not and Leo here is correct on that, there is Torah or Bible (does not matter how you call it) that is embedded in us and that is what motivates us to meet the final redemption and the end of times as how it was all prophesied, because if blending together as one, then the idea of redemption and Armageddon is really dissipated. And I am not saying that lightly or from low consciousness level as most here will misunderstand me, but I believe you can understand. It’s something to contemplate what is more worth to us? To you? Is Bible more important that being say stage yellow or even turquoise? Again assuming a hypothetical situation and by the way, there are a large amount of ArabIc people whom I spoke with, and who are really high consciousness ones.
So would I assume you would choose Jewishness over? Tough question? See this is a high conciseness question as oppose to what most throw here, low level thinking. -
@Vrubel I reread again what you wrote here and I will be honest with you, truly reading what you are saying I can tell you that you are a high consciousness individual and you are truly aiming at higher stages of spiral dynamics. You made some points but I do want to challenge them, and I am challenging them on a consciousness politics and not on a low level as most just keep throwing here different conspirational stuff. I will pose some very uncomfortable questions, that those who are truly into deep spiritual work will get very uncomfortable but since you made some points I need to challenge you there.
So basically you are saying that if Palestinians primarily in the West Bank will accept Israel we can make some peace with them, but at the same time you still want separation. But say if tomorrow they wake up and say they would want peace, truly peace, and say they get integrated to stage orange and slightly blue, but not extremists blue. Technically someone who is such a high level would be even ok to make one state, where we all can leave in peace, where we don’t have to transfer say Israeli citizens form West Bank to Israel and we don’t have to transfer Palestinians who live in Israeli proper like Um El Fahm, Hadera, Nazareth and so on. There won’t be issue with resources and etc. But, the next election come, and then if it’s true democracy it can be a fair game who will get elected, it can be a Jewish prime minister but it can also be an Arab prime minister. So are you willing to loose Jewish character of Israel to be a democratic character? See democratic state and jewish state are mutually exclusive and don’t tell me otherwise. The basic definition for a democratic state is whoever majority rules, but for a jewish state, it must be ruled by a Jew.
So what would you choose? The jewish state or democratic state? Because someone who is so high conscious should be away from tribalism, but then again you have history and when shit hits the fan, all our high consciousness goes down to drain? I know I am asking a third rail question that actually Rabbi Kahane was asking and wrote a book called “uncomfortable questions for comfortable Jews” oh believe me, most questions American Jews could not answer and they even petitioned for that book to be banned from sale. This is just one question out of many he asked, but you can get this book for yourself and reading it will make you hit the wall.
So what’s more important to you, high consciousness and multiculturalism or tribalism?
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@Nivsch don’t get me wrong, I never said the left side of the government are for Annexation. If you ask me, I think they don’t have a solution but rather just throw a ball from one government to another. Also saying something is different than doing. And by the way most right wing politicians don’t have a solution neither, I hope I am not sounding here like I support one spectrum over the other. Neither the left or the right have a viable solution. It’s just I find it very hypocritical when they scream of mount atop that they are for two states but in reality all they do is postponing. And don’t get me wrong I am not for two states though I think I made it very clear.
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@Vrubel Is that me or the more ethical we are towards our energies the more the world is aggravated. You do know that the more we go into the future the more ethical Israelis are like warning the enemies by sending leaflets and try to avoid killing innocent. I wonder what if Israel was more like Russia say, hypothetically, do you believe the world opinion would be different. I was really thinking about it, and I truly noticed the more ethics we apply the more anger we get from the world.
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I don’t want to go into narrow political schematic, but most parties are not. I know they are playing games for a two state solution and that’s actually pretty bad as they give false hope and lead the world to believe that they truly want while in reality they are being very hypocritical and say one thing but act differently. Look they all play games and in my opinion are not ethical games. They pretend that they want and then they blame on the other side, this is not honest or ethical. All of them played games with Olmert and Tzipi Livni, who screamed from their throat that they want two state solution but did very little. You know the only person who kinda did, was Sharon, and by the way I do not agree with him and he made a grave mistake, but he actually was the one who removed all Jews from Gaza and from northern Samaria. Look I used to be involved back then and I did raise my concern to some about not having two state and the reps be I got was not to worry about and the the Palestinians will never agree and if they will agree we will make something that they would disagree and so on. Look I am a straight shooter and I am very honest and straight forward, but this kind of politics is very hypocritical and I really think it back fires. And by the way, as you probably can see I am not for two state solutions inside Israel, but if they truly wanted, it would already been made by now.
And by the way not to get into conspiracy, but I really think Yitzhak Rabin at one point wanted to implement and the way he was killed was a lot of mystery. Not sure if you knew but one very quite fact, is that when he was shot, the ambulance car was circling for over an hour while the nearby hospital was only 15 minutes away. And also there are a lot of dirty games the government does which I will not bring up on this forum. But since you asked I will share with you something that I personally know. You see I personally know the Goldstein family, yes Baruch Goldstein, even after his death I used to speak with his family and I know many people don’t know. Again this is not form someone else stories but I know from personal communication. So when the Oslo was coming close and Israeli government got really scared that it may come to fruition, no they decided to make one dirty trick in my opinion. Baruch Goldstein was a doctor and by the way compare what they write about him, as I knew him personally and not based on stories, he was not a crazy person, but indeed a very nice man, who by the way loved kids and was helping to heal kids for free whether they were Jewish or Palestinian, something that is not really spoken off. And by the way there are crazy people who live in settlement I will not argue with that, he was very educated and down to earth man, indeed he was at a very high stage individual.
So come Oslo, Shabak (similar to FBI in America) came too him and told him that in Hebron there wi,, be a massacre and they need to show the world that Palestinians are barbarians so they can pause with the peace process. Honestly that I would not know if it was true or not but to be honest I think they were bluffing. Oh and let me tell you, they had meetings with him every day, since he was a top medic they would tell him that he would need to help the wounded people and everything. They played a mind game with him and were having those meeting ever since day. After two weeks, they actually truly switched his consciousness that he lost him mind and the rest you know what happened. I did not share that story before but so much time passed by and both his parents passed away. Of course in the newspaper it was totally different story but I know the truth as I was the one communicating with him. So this is the ethics they are playing with.
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@Nivsch you see to the most people on this forum they view your and my point as the same. You and I disagree on a micro level while everyone on this forum is speaking of macro level. Potentially to everyone else on this forum there is no difference between Netanyahu or Gantz and especially Moshe Yaalon. Their difference is minor but regardless they all support Israel to be a Jewish state and they view the Palestinians the same and they would pretty much act the same. And whatever they criticize the others are purely for political gain nothing else.
See you and I would disagree on some very thin items to which for most people on this forum you and I are the same, they view you and I as one. All the political leaders in the government still seek the same goal and would act pretty much the same. And don’t tell me any leader in the mainstream would quickly agree to make a Palestine inside Israel, because that is simply not true.
My friend let me tell you something it’s the people who elect the government and the government is representation of the people. Hamas represents people in Gaza as you would agree and as much as you would hate to admit for some political correctness, Netanyahu does represent Israelis today. I know it sounds painful but sometimes you need to be a man and admit. I know you will not like me for saying this but we also need to be honest, we criticize the other side for good reasons but we also need to admit about ourselves.
@Raze I saw your statistic, but you need to be careful with polls, the poll you show is composed of 746 people that’s not enough to make determination. Again currently Netanyahu is pretty powerful and popular in Israel and the people support him whether everyone likes it or not. Yes you have some who are very vocal about it but again if there was a truly large opposition, the government would be toppled as it happened many many times in the past.
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3 hours ago, Nivsch said:Former senior commander within Israeli Air Force during 90s and 00s and now one of the biggest activists against Netanyahu, Amir Haskel.
In this video he distributes flyers about the demonstrations in the train.
https://x.com/AmirHaskel/status/1801346021181767817
@Nivsch no offense to you, but you are insulting peoples intelligence by forwarding those isolated clips. Look for the most part majority of Israelis support Netanyahu and for good reason. Look as of now Netanyahu is a powerful leader and all others like Gantz and the company are throwing political moves and career advancement and nothing else. I am not sure what you are trying to show here, that there are some individuals who don’t like Netanyahu? Ok but they are still offering the same alternative. All those in high power will move the same agenda, I feel like you are trying to apologize for Israel’s action but realize everyone here are above that and no one would care, ok let’s say other leader would bomb every other day or once a week, you don’t understand the people on this forum are either fully for Israel or fully against Israel and to them being it Gantz or Netanyahu or Lapid or even Moshe Yaalon is the same thing. And by the way Moshe Yaalon was General during Ariel Sharon time. Honestly it just shows that you feel guilty and you wanna make things soft for some reason. You don’t seem to get it, the idea here is whether Israel has the right to defend itself or not, here is a bigger portion at stake and not in menushe.
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11 hours ago, zazen said:Most people seem to agree with a two state solution. It does have its challenges though for example how to connect West Bank to Gaza or the concern of West Bank having a vantage point from which snipers or attacks can too easily be launched on Israel.
With two neighbours with this much bad blood between each other, neither would accept to have a militarised area overlooking the other. Hypothetically would Russia accept a militarised Ukrainian state on the hills overlooking Moscow? Never. The issue then is if West Bank is de-militarised it’s not a fully sovereign state - and how will this be enforced - Israeli check points? That becomes occupation and the whole fight starts over.
Muslim Arabs and Palestinians have also lived there and have a connection to the land - it’s also holy to them. Even if it weren’t holy - it’s not just to drive them out to Saudi Arabia. Their claims are just as valid as Jews.
Only solution that comes to my mind is if West Bank is de-militarized with no IDF or Palestinian forces and instead has international peace keepers. Gaza should be given full sovereignty with full rights any state would have - building ports, airports etc.
I see your point but it’s not realistic, the place is too small for two states. You want to know the real solution to achieve peace? Is if one nation will be totally be gone then you will have true peace. And also why do you keep not listening to Arabs, they also want to have coastal plane like Tel Aviv and Haifa and the fertile lands like the Galilee. I can tell for sure that you never spoke to a Palestinian who truly dreams of entire Israel. It’s you the west who impose just West Bank to them, but they want it all, that is why they keep claiming from the river to the sea, the want entire Israel. And also you keep saying demilitarized, and why would they agree while Israel would be militarized. You speak on their behalf but you don’t represent what they want. That’s why when they had West Bank, they were still seeking to get all of remaining Israel. And finally the Gaza Strip, is a very small strip of land, I still can’t imagine how 2.3 million people are squeezed there, they are living on top of each other. Your solutions are just not realistic and that’s why the PLO leaders rejected other solutions and for a good reason because it would not be feasible. Again the only solution is to either make one state but then you will dissolve the idea of Jewish state or for one nation to transfer out. It’s just for us we have nowhere to go.
@Vrubel you seem like being a very sober at this whole thing and you see both the ethical issue and at the same time the necessity of keeping Israel. See that’s why I truly appreciated Rabbi Meir Kahane who was advocating for a peaceful transfer of Palestinians as he really foresaw exactly what would happen. Think about it, let’s say if back then in 1980 they would transfer Palestinians to any Arab state or states, ok the world would scream for a month or two or say six month, but look at the beauty, we would not have all those wars and killings and no Hamas would be launching rockets and the IDF would not have to go and bomb the camps. Remember when Menachem Begin bombed the Iraqi nuclear reactor. Cause at that time Iraq was about the have nuclear weapon and Israel bombed it, yes there was a huge protests back then for three month straight, and then people found other causes and moved on, but the entire idea of nuclear Iraq was totally gone and since then about forty years passed by, everyone pretty much forgot about it. Rabbi Kahane wanted to get other Arab states involved to resettle them among them and to get UN involved as there are so much money being funneled into PLO that either gets to private pockets or terrorists organizations, as oppose to resettle them, build them homes and infrastructure and then allow them to purchase or even to offer for very little or free. All this money would be for the building cities and pretty much offering them free houses, and they would blend much easy with the people who share the same identity and religion and language and culture and by now this entire problem would have been forgotten. I know there are polical profits here and I know PLO likes as they collect money form universal causes, but if his plan was truly implemented, today you would not be having refugee camps and the two people would be truly separated. Look at @Raze said there is bad blood among them, it’s like keeping a husband and wife in marriage who hate each other, for what purpose? To show that there can be peace, but at what price, so they would kill each other. I know I may not speak of political correctness, but not all solutions are politically correct, sometimes you need to be not correct but to save so many lives.
I know many will argue then let’s still try? Try for what, for people to continue kill each other? I am not being extreme, I am being realistic. When I was a kid, and I mean under 10, I spoke to one surgeon, and I asked him a question, of how can he cut people, as he does not feel bad cutting them with a knife (scalpel) to which he replied to me and that answer I remembered for the rest of my life. He said that he has to hurt people in order to heal them. -
4 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:I don’t know what you are trying to show with this video. Ok a woman is being emotional as many people are. This commentator is being silly, claiming that the person who wears traditional Jews close is more Jews. My friend the beauty of Judaism is that a Jew is a Jew, does not matter if you wear black hat, or just a kippah, have sidelocks or not, republican or democrat, left or right, gay or straight, proud or self hating, smart or dumb, Biden or Trump supporter (by the way) someone who was born or a convert, white, black, brown or with pocadots Jew is a Jew and all are part of Israel.
Oh and by the way need to address something here, I see it’s a bit common on this forum on lately on social media showing this small fringe Orthodox Jews who claim Israel has no right to exist. So you should know it’s an opinion based and not from Holly scriptures, a very important point that many people misunderstand. No where in the Holly scriptures whether it is Torah, Tanah, Gemorah, Profits, Judges and Midrash says anything that we are not allowed to have a Jewish state (indeed it is on the contrary), those individuals quote an opinion of one Rabbi, but again it is opinion and not from the Bible. And that’s fine we can all have opinions, even saying that Trump is horrible, is also an opinion and not a fact. Lol.
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3 hours ago, Karmadhi said:Hahahahahahahahhaahha
Hahhahahaahahahahahahhaahah
Does it occur you that Germany had done basically genocide in those countries or treated them like shit? Germany killed like 17% of Polish population in 5 years. Palestine treated Arab Jews fairly well until they started getting dumped in mass on the 1920s.
They were part of a brutal Ottoman occupation for 500 years.
You keep missing historical injustices and historical context.
Totally agreed. I do not think 1 state would work. So 2 states. Each living in their own state. Just like Germany and Poland are today 2 different states. What is the problem? You keep not answering me to this.
How so? Does PLO want to create the border of Palestine to include all of Israel? Where have they said so in the negotiations they have done.
Send me some sources
Of course my friend I will show to you the PLO charter, it’s in their article 15, I just google one source online but you can see at other source since it’s the same charter, here they are saying to eradicate Zionism.
https://www.pac-usa.org/the_palestinian_charter.htm
So don’t expect me to act different than I act.
Another point, Jews never lived well under Muslim rule, we got status of Dhimi a second class citizen where we had to be quiet and all our places of worship or homes had to be built below the Islamic neighbor. Ask me, I would choose to live under European oppression thousand times over and still that was not the best. So living under Islamic rule was a nightmare and people were kept alive because they were practicing one God religion and if you were secular you would most likely be killed or force to convert to one God religion. So thanks but no thanks. Never again would we want to live like Dhimis what they call us.
I am not sure why you keep comparing us to Germany. I understand if a Jew who lived in Germany would ever say that when we become majority we would call Germany Israel, maybe you would have some leg to stand on. And of course if Jews were blowing themselves us in Germany, then you would have an argument to say what they did was sort of right. But all a Jew w aged to be was a good citizen and indeed they stopped calling themselves Jews and called themselves German of Mossaic persuasion. So comparing the two is like day and night.
I don’t know why you keep beating on the two states in one state. Look Israel is a very small country, it’s not feasible to make two states. Just one example, how do you plan to connect West Bank and Gaza? They are geographically apart and didn’t tell me you will cut Israel in half. And why don’t you advocate for Saudi Arabia that is by the way pretty much empty country, that has a lot of uninhabited land. Finally what you call West Bank is our Israel’s heartland. Place like Hebron where our ancestors are buried Abraham and Sara, Isaac and Rebecca, Jacob and Leah. Then we have place like Schechem with Joseph Tumb, place like Jericho where Joshua blew the horn for the walls to fail, then place like Beit Lehem where our foremother Rachel was, and so on. That is biblical Israel and we have a very strong connection to it.
And the cities are. Or Palestinian names but Jewish names. But you will ask what about Nabulus? It’s not a Nabulus, it’s called Schechem, it’s in the Bible. The way it got its name was the Romans renamed many cities and they call it Naples, which in Latin would be Napulus. In Arabic there are no middle letter P but B so it became Nabulus, so if anyone truly should have claims then it would be Italians.
Look the entire country is the size of state of New Jersey. And don’t keep repeating that times are different. Don’t say PLO vs Hamas. Look there are smart Arabs and dumb one who live there. The dumb one are the one say what they mean, the smart ones mean the same but they play with their words, but their idea is all the same, to push us into the sea. What bothered them to start war with us when they had West Bank. I tell you what bothers them, any size or shape of Israel, because what you fail to understand is that what was under Islamic rule once shall always be and we are like a pimple to their ego.
I want to quote to you from Wikipedia what one Palestinian say in a Dutch newspaper trouwhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuheir_Mohsen
"The Palestinian people does not exist … there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese . Between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese there are no differences. We are all part of one people, the Arab nation [...] Just for political reasons we carefully underwrite our Palestinian identity. Because it is of national interest for the Arabs to advocate the existence of Palestinians to balance Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons[...] Once we have acquired all our rights in all of Palestine, we must not delay for a moment the reunification of Jordan and Palestine" .
Again I understand the Arabs, the Arabs perfectly understand me, however neither of us can understand you.
You truly want peace, think of other solutions. Be creative.
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8 hours ago, Karmadhi said:Dude cant you see that you are talking basically like a far right Israeli and even justifying the illegal settlements that basically nobody in the world supports except far right Israelis. Not even many Israelis dont support it. I know @Nivsch has expressed his concerns about it.
No offense but you seem like someone who would vote for Ben Gvir.
If I am wrong, you can correct me.
Lol and lol. You quote UN resolutions, I am sure you do not see it but all resolutions are primarily antisemitic. I can’t remember how many you quote, let’s say there are ten of them, but what difference does it make even if we and 100 of them. At the end of the day they are still on a paper and nothing else, it’s unfortunate that they don’t print them on a toilet paper, they would have had more use.
You fail to see the difference between IDF and Islamic terrorism. IDF prime goal is to eliminate terrorists while doing their best to keep innocent civilians alive, the goal of terrorists is precisely to target innocent civilians, so what kind of conversation we can have if you fail to misunderstand the main difference. That’s why we can care less of people like you and UN who try to teach us ethics.
And I do want to correct you, I really would love to vote for Rabbi Meir Kahane (unfortunately he was killed in 1990) but his platform was to transfer Palestinian people out of Israel. And to be frank with you, today, not a single Palestinian would die or be bombarded, because there would not be a single one living in Israel. This is what historically is called exchange of population. In 1948 we took about 800,000 of Jews who were expelled from Arab countries and that would be a second stage to give the Arabs back to them. And just for your info the exchange of population is something that has been practiced. After WW2 the Poland removed eight million ethnic Germans and so did Chehoslovakia removed four million ethnic Germans. Did you know that in 1946 India and Pakistan exchanged 20 million people? Did you know that in 1923 Greece and Turkey exchanged million of people? And so on and so forth.
Look those things need to be done not because I hate other people, it’s the otherwise, because there are some people that are just not compatible to be with others, it’s a reality. There is no need to force them to live together and constantly kill each other. For what? For liberalism? That’s stupid. Once you separate people, one thing for sure there won’t be any killing, because they would not be next to each other. So an Arab would not go to a Jewish village to carry an attack and the IDF would not retaliate by killing their family. That was the platform of Rabbi Meir Kahane and his main point was that he did not want to see death or under, h obviously did not want to see Jewish people get killed but of course he did not want to see Arab people getting killed. Or you still would argue that to prove liberalism and equality let people be stuck together and let them kill each other?
Also you mention that PLO is not Hamas? Have you ever read their charter? The first or second phrase in their charter calls to eliminate Israel of any shape or size and they are the ones called from the river to the Sea. And that’s entire Israel. And you also mentioned that Saudi and Quatar got upset with us? With friends like that we don’t need enemies. We were without their alliance before and we can be perfectly fine without them after. The peace plan that PLO offers is dismantle of Israel. I get it and I respect it, but then don’t get upset at me for acting the way I act.
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8 hours ago, Vrubel said:Interesting stuff, I didn't know much of it. Oke, so Ethiopian Jews are not a rediscovered lost tribe but just "regular Jews" like you and me who went south into Africa. And what about those people from the far east of India I sometimes see in Israel?
Right the Ethiopians are supposedly Jews like you and I. Look there was a truly Jews tribe who were rescued initially I believe under operation magic carpet, those were truly Jews and they practiced and keep the traditions. Now some neighbors who were not Jews heard that you can get to a better place and they started claiming that they are Jews as well. But guess what some people in former Soviet Union also started claiming to be Jews so they can leave the country as it was not easy to get into the States. So that’s why with the Soviet immigration a lot of none Jews got attached but that’s fine people like to go to better places that are much economically stronger, what can I say.
Now as far as India, yes there are a large group also composed of number of million people who claim to be tribe of Menashe, the ancient Israelis. But note, all ancient Israelis today do not practice Judaism, they religion of the country they live in but in addition have a lot of similar items the Jews practice like Kosher or some keep day of rest specifically on Saturday and not Sunday or Friday. -
1 hour ago, Vrubel said:You mean Pashtuns, the Taliban folk? Are they our lost brothers? haha maybe it's better if we exclude them from Israel for the time being
Aren't the Ethiopians and those Indian people part of the lost tribes? And what's the difference between a "mainstream Jew" or one belonging to a lost tribe? Maybe they're integrated together and the distinction is now impossible to make. Or assimilated with other non-Jewish peoples so deeply that it's futile to seek for them.I know that some modern Assyrians have very Jewish-sounding names and their language is very similar to Hebrew. Maybe some lost tribe there.
Sorry for my misspelling yes Pashtuns. Some claim that they are ancient Israelites who were forcibly converted to Islam.
So the ancient Israelites had 12 tribes one for each son of Jacob. They were pretty much all holding separate and rarely mix. Each tribe received its own land dedication, so they were Simeonites, Reuveonites and etc. Judah was a tribe that got Jerusalem area and hence they are what we call Jews today but Jews were one of the tribes of Israelites. Now today whom we call Jews are all from tribe of Judah even Ethiopian Jews, as well as Iraqi Jews, Bukharian Jews and Gorsky and so on, those are all Jews. The others are technically lost and are not practicing Judaism at the current moment. But yes some claim in Syria (currently practicing Islam) some in India, I heard some in Eastern Europe, some Native American Indians claim, some in Africa, and some even in Iran (excluding Iranian Jews) but none practice Judaism currently, though they have a very close practices to Judaism. Again today it’s theory only.So the mainstream Jew is the one who calls or consider themselves Jewish (even self hating Jews who claim don’t want anything to do with Judaism and those who converted to other religions) they are what you would call mainstream of Jews descended from Judah.
According to the prophecy they will only be revealed at the end of times and not before. Again just quoting what says and not putting my opinion here. In my opinion if they would all reveal now, man, our current state would be too small and then we would need to expand. Oh boy imagine all the comments below.
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@Vrubel You bring a good point but the name Israel was desired more for number of reasons. Well in the prophecy by the end of times it mentions Israel in Armageddon and all other prophetic writings. Now taking away religious writings to the side, Israel was a country for all, twelve tribes. Remember there was a division of the tribes and Judas along with some Levites (and Benjamin’s, will not go into detailed story here) seceded to a state called Judah where Jews come from, but remember Israel was more inclusive not only for Jews but for 12 tribes total. Of course after Assyrian siege the 10 tribes were exiled and were technically lost. But at the end of times they will be brought back so hence they are not Jews but broader Israelis.
Below is for @Vrubel and @Nivsch only, everyone else, please do not read further.
So according to prophecy the 10 lost tribes will be found, where they are, no one knows, but there are quite theories out there. Not going into details but I read for example in Afghanistan there is a tribe of Pooshtoons who hypothetically practice an Islam of very close to ancient Israel where they keep the laws of Kosher and are Sabbath observant, they account of about 10 million people. Now I have no proof one way or another, but there are interesting findings on them and few even claim that they are descendants of ancient Israelis. Then you have some claim that some tribes of Native Americans are as well and then you have sine in Africa (not Ethiopians cause those are Jews who claim to be) and so on. So then someone made statistics (again no historical proof but just a cute number playing) that there are about 65 million of Israelis. And no wonder prophetically Israel will expand its borders for a greater Israel form Nile to Euphrates see link for the map below.
https://www.c4israel.org.nz/news_featured/greater-israel-from-the-nile-to-the-euphrates/
Again this message was not for everyone and I will not be replying to comments pantsed to me.
P.S. I am not an extremist and I do not advocate for a Greater Israel.
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5 hours ago, Karmadhi said:It is illegal under international law. UN has said it clearly. No country supports it. Only hardcore Jews like yourself.
Different times, different circumstances, different leaders. You cannot compare.
Still 1000x better than how Europe treated Jews. For the most part they lived together in harmony. Plenty of Jews came to Palestine and were welcomed. Of course not everyone was happy about that, so here we go. And israel did 1000x worse afterwards, so...
No they will not. That is what Israel wants. To create greater Israel and within it, to treat certain groups as lower citizens aka apartheid.
If you guys were serious about peace, you would have Israel within 1960s borders with top tier security, you would be much safer than having to micro manage the West Bank and Gaza. But you want land more than security. That is the issue.
Your fundamental argument for shameless illegal land grab is religious nonsense. When you start talking to me about Bible stuff, then you already lost. Nobody uses religion to justify shit on 2024. We are beyond that now.
If you want to be serious about it, do a DNA test and see if you are actually from that land you call Israel. Science is how you prove this shit, not religion.
When Islam uses holy books to justify stuff, they get shamed for it.
There is a reason DNA tests are illegal in Israel. Because if people started doing them, they would realize that they do not belong there and are just shameless colonizers and their whole identity would collapse.
@Karmadhi It’s funny you call me ignorant but when I quote facts you totally ignore the. First of all it’s not different times different circumstances, not sure if you ever heard expression that the more things change the more they remain the same. Also we are not speaking of thousand years ago, the neighboring countries were at odds with us just the past fifty years ago.
You are also stuck on the DNA test. Your argument that it’s illegal is Israel is flawed, it’s not true. This test is complicated and I can tell, you did not looked deep into it as the test cannot identify things what you mention. But be it as it may, most Jews do have middle eastern dna but being Jewish is also someone who can convert. And if you sincerely convert to being Jewish, guess what, you would become as much Israeli citizen as I would be and then I just hope you will be defending Israel on this forum as I do.
This entire DNA is not an argument. I was born in former Soviet Union, I never done dna there and even my classmates in school never done dna test on me, but they told me to get a hell out of their country and I was Jewish. I am not sure if they had X-ray vision but they clearly saw me being Jewish and mind you I was not wearing any Jewish clothes, not Yarmulke or black hat or had I sidelocks on my hair. And so you should know there was a time that I told my parents that I am not going back to school, until we emigrated.
Now, there are 21 Arab states exists, there is 600 times more land that they have, I am not going into debate historically if they had that land, by the way they did not, but they exist now and that’s facts on the ground. I am not willing to mingle with only one Jewish state. And yes, Palestine where today Israel never existed as a country, look into encyclopedia, there was never a Palestine King or president, there was no currency, no flag, no language, no anything, I am not absorbing that lie. However if they want to create Palestine now in Saudi Arabia or anywhere else, they are more than welcome, but it will not be created inside my country, because that would be a suicide for us. Again we only have one Jewish state we can’t afford to loose it.
Finally, you need to know how to deffirentiate what says in news paper and what’s on the legal level. If West Bank was illegal, they would sent army and remove us. I can tell you did not love history lessons, but there were many instances where NATO came in and did carnage’s to countries that did hold illegal land. Yes US fully support us and don’t tell me that we as a few people control the entire US, that’s just baloney, we are too small to control such a mega power. Also what you call West Bank, prior was never under an ownership of any country. We did not take it from another rulers. The only country historically existed on the West Bank was ancient Israel. Otherwise there was no historically any country existing there.
Also we all seems to go around the same bush here, people keep asking the same questions and we keep giving the same answers. I think we came to a point that we better off just copy and paste, you keep copy and paste your statements and I will do the same.
You want to speak rational, this is rationality I am giving you. We will not create Palestine within Israel, that you can forget, I am telling you facts based. I don’t know if you don’t believe me or you refuse to believe me, but this is a fact. This land cannnot be broken into two states, it’s two small, it’s not feasible, it’s not continuous. Why can’t you come up with different solutions. Why are you beating only on that solution. Again we only have one Jewish state, we cannot afford to loose it. If we had 21 states, you know, probably we could have gambled with it, whatever, if we would loose one when things go bad, we would have 20 to go. Here, if we loose it, where would we go. Into the sea?
If you truly want to be creative, create other solution, but as I state to you humbly, we will not accept the stuff that I mention. I am not sure if you don’t believe me, or you refuse to believe me, I am telling you sincerely and honestly, No. I don’t know what other ways I can say No. and I do want to apologize for my citizens who would be giving false hope, and they really should not be doing such as deep down they don’t believe themselves. I don’t like when politicians know they will not do it, but they play games and playing victim card that they would do different if they could but the circumstance does not allow them otherwise. No, I am telling you you hear honestly. Again if you are a peace seeker come up with a different solution and then we can speak.
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22 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:A different Perspective on All this crazy going on :
very nice video, very deep in thought. Actually if you are on a very high human development level you would appreciate it. In general in pretty much all woke protests many people don’t know what they are protesting and he is correct for referring to them as useful idiots. I don’t think communism is realistic to achieve and whoever uses communism is actually usurping the ideology for their own power grab. But seriously very deep video. -
Guys don't get fooled, USA and some European countries are not helping Ukraine out of good heart, there is always a benefit to some extent. I was listening to one podcast dont remember the name of the host, but he made a very good point. See when Soviet Union was active, it was spending half of its GDP for military and stock up a lot of artillery, now the West through Ukraine making the Russia (who inherited all the military arsenal) to kinda use it all up, soon they will run out of it. I mean its a smart strategy, they are suing Ukraine as a way to unload Russia. I never believe other countries have love for others, its always some kind of benefit. And remember its not what the news agency will say, the State Department has their plans which are not disclosed to the public and things may be totally different what they appear. I was in one organization long time back and one member was a former CIA employee, of course he barely spoke about his job, but he told me that whatever State Department is doing, they are not releasing anything to the public, indeed the press may even get the opposite of what is really happening. He told me appearances are totally deceiving.
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7 hours ago, Karmadhi said:Dude, nobody is saying Israel should dissapear and all the Jews from there go back to Europe. You are the one wanting Palestinians to fuck off from their own land. Cant you see how crazy that is! Why dont you do the 2 state solution and everyone lives and chills in their state. Issue is Israel wants land more than it wants peace. Their actions are inflammatory to peace. Especially West Bank ILLEGAL settlements.
Here is a solution for you: Recognize Palestine according to 1960s borders, kick out all the illegal settlers and leave in Israel and chill there.
You dont seem to appreciate Palestinians though.
Thanks for reiterating but we are not going anywhere. Not sure how aware you are of a history but the Palestinian Mandate that was promised to us as a Jewish National Home was much bigger what we have now and it was illegally cut off of about 78% of mandate to create a fictitious states called Jordan. But it’s there now and I am fully accepting it.
What you call settlements in West Bank illegal, first of all they are not illegal as besides us there was no rightful owner to them, there was never Palestinian ownership to them. Those are biblical Israel and if we don’t have rights to Hebron which was built 4000 years ago we definitely don’t have rights to Tel Aviv which was built in 1905. Also if we do relinquish what you call West Bank then our borders will become extremely short. And you are being too naive to think that Arabs just want us to go back to 1967 borders to have peace. Really, what bothered the Arabs in 1967 to start a war with us when they had those territories. What bothered them in 1956 to make a war with us? What bothered them in 1948 to start a war with us, was it the West Bank that we did not had? What promoted them to reject a peel commission which would make a small silver of land? What bothered them from 1936-1938 to make huge pogroms? The occupied lands of 1967? Or when they made murderous act in 1921, 1928 or 1929 in one day in Hebron when 67 Jews were killed and their insides were torn outside.
I am not fooled or I am not dismayed. I totally understand and respect the Arabs, whatever was under their rule shall always remain under their rule and they will not accept any Israel of any shape or size. I get it and I respect it and that’s why I say they can leave among their brethren neighboring me in peace. Honestly I wish them well, from the bottom of my heart, elsewhere. God bless their 21 states that they have. But they will not create a substrate within a state. It’s not even feasible and not even doable. -
1 minute ago, Karmadhi said:What is interesting is that if most of us would talk about most other topics, we would greatly agree.
This one tends to seperate us a lot.
And it is because some of you have direct skin in the game.
Hell yes, I have a direct skin in the game cause it concerns my survival. Dude you don’t know what it means to be a refuge, we had to run away once Soviet Union collapsed and you don’t know what it means to be worse cuter in other countries, and yes as a Jew I was persecuted there and it came to such a point that I told my parents I don’t want to go to school anymore cause it got so bad. So yes I have a personal skin in the game, it’s my survival here at stake. So I will do anything to keep Israel strong and powerful even if we have to transfer another population out of it. Yes to answer your question because never again do I want to go through the same shit again. You don’t know and can’t judge when you are not wanted in a country that everyone tells you to get the hell out of it. So don’t say that.
But sure we do agree on most things. I truly appreciate human development and spiral dynamics, I am really fascinated at the universal consciousness and how psychedelics open you up so you can see so vivid and deep.
I will go even one step further, if all borders would melt, then I don’t mind having my border melt, but you need to understand when it comes for self survival, all the stages go down. Leo mentioned it in his two part series of 9 stages of human development. That’s just a reality. But take away this conflict, of course I want peace, of course I want love, I want everyone to be together, you know how beautiful it is when I attended say ayahuasca ceremonies and where everyone come under same roof, does not matter the color or religious identity or national background, it looks very nice that we are all human and we all share and yearning for the universal love and how we are all interconnected with each other. -
12 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:That goes both ways.
If Jews went back to Europe from Israel that also would solve many issues.
And they are more compatible with Europe than Palestinians are and Europe has a soft spot for them now.
Better solution to me, if you want to go down that route.
No thanks, I am happy to keep my own country where I can be a master of my own fate. I don’t want to be a minority under majority anymore. It’s fair that we have Christian countries, it’s fair that we have 56 Muslim countries and it’s fair to have one Jewish country. For example I want to live in a country that is closed on religious holidays, that I don’t need to ask boss for a day off, that I can be off on the entire week of Passover or entire week of Sukkoth (holiday of tabernacle). And by the way I used to live back on former Soviet Union where I was persecuted for being religious person, so no thanks and never again would I want to live under gentile rules. I want to have my own country with my own religious lifestyle.
and to answer your other question, the world does not hate Israel, it’s just some individuals on some forms go bizarre that they cannot do much. We still have support of USA by the way who keep giving us weapons till now and we have support form most of the Europe. And when there was Eurovision we were totally fine there and got a good winning number there. So we are good. I don’t pay attention to different blogs.
And finally, the way we act most countries would act in the similar way, not sure why you are judging us different, but here is one Jew, who could care less. You want to speak of morality it’s fine but be fair, but if you start biasing against us, to me you are just another human made from flesh and blood. We take our allegiance to the Creator.
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1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:I think this represents what is wrong with Israel. People like you would have supported Nazis if born in Germany during that time. Self bias beyond belief. Comical level to the point where I cannot tell if it is troll or not.
You seem like your average Ben Gvir supporter.
Thank you for giving us insight into how the radical Zionist that supports Ben Gvir in Israel thinks.
@Danioover9000 @lina @zazen Check this out. We have a winner for the most biased guy on this thread.
Thank you for the compliment. Don’t take it personal but if you cannot find a difference between me and a Nazi your moral compass is seriously perverted. I understand if Jews who lived in Germany would say that when they will become majority they would turn Germany into Israel or they would use terrorist tactics to attack Germans then maybe it would ave been justifiable, but Jews on the other hand were the best citizens ever, indeed a lot of them stopped calling themselves Jews and call themselves German of Mossaic persuasion. The Arabs or Palestinians who live in Israel dream of the day when they become majority and to change Israel to be Palestine and not to mention deliberately targeting innocent men and women.
You can call me whatever you want, the difference with me, is that I do not like to lie nor I lie, I tell things they way they are, face value. And I am that kind of Jew who would rather live in Israel hated by the entire world, then Auschwitz that would be loved by. -
1 hour ago, Nemra said:Why aren't they comfortable in their countries?
E.g., If Palestinians wanted to migrate to Europe or somewhere comfortable, would you support it?
Yes I would totally support it, indeed I would even go further and compensate them for their property left. Believe me that would solve so much issues. From the bottom of my heart I really wish them well with their Arab brethren and God bless their 21 states that they have.
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28 minutes ago, Samsonov said:So perhaps our sin was in our pride.Read beyond the 'pshat', be more open and expand your love, or your notion of the jewishness to all, what if the whole world were jewish, why are we so protective of the religion? truth is not so delicate, we shall expose the jewish tradition and all fallacies will dissolve in the light of awareness, the story ain't over brother. the fight might be over Jerusalem or not, it might not be as bloody as described, definitely not with swords xD, it might involve fighting with love, my love.So you are speaking of deeper things and I would say above Pshat, the real thing we need to speak on the level of Sod, that’s kabalsitic or deep spiritual level. But most people here will not understand as they are still on low level of development, they act trike they are but they are not, they are still in their tribablsitic thinking.
Of course there had to be a reason Jewish people were kicked out of Israel so they can spread the idea of One God and look they did as most major religions in the world are believing in one God, whether you like it or not. And of course at the end of times but unfortunately after the Great War, there will be love as you describe indeed such a love that a lamb will lie with a wolf, there would be an outmost peace and true love, perhaps of universal love we speak off. But we are not there yet, we are far off, as how can we get to such levels where you have people who want to eradicate us from the face of the earth. But I truly think after the nuclear war where humans will be surviving as species, probably the hate will dissipate.
in Society, Politics, Government, Environment, Current Events
Posted
@enchanted why would you say this is dangerous video? Don’t you believe people have the right to know both sides of the coin. To be honest after watching this video I did bunch of research and was surprised that many things in that video I was not aware of. Now did it made me angry a bit, hmmm, maybe but it’s also educational and you need to know pros and cons so you can make an educated decision. I mean I can see your point of simple minded people who would jump to conclusion form their first reaction, but if that is the case then the news media should hide most news from the public as it can make them bizarre and to some extent does.