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From your perspective it is worse because you are a man. What are some concrete examples of things that feminists commonly do to abuse men? I'm trying to understand your perspective instead of being dragged into a messy debate, which is where this is going. I really am just curious what you think the role of women in a perfect society is. I think it will help me understand where you are coming from better. This is very much a subjective issue, not a factual one.

I didn't say they were a good thing, I said they were not inherent to feminism. And anyway, I'd rather grow up with separated parents (I actually did) rather than parents who hate each others' guts and argue around me 24/7. In what contexts? My mother is a successful and independent woman in a male-dominated field who has frequently been on the receiving end of sexism, chauvinism, and just general dickheadedness from many of the men she works with because of her independent and driven nature. Your sense of what happens in the world is possibly based too much on what you read online. I am trying to understand what role you think women should play in the world. So I will ask you that. In your perfect world, what role should women play?

Most marriages have always been cesspools of toxicity, rising divorce rates are simply because divorce is more socially acceptable now. It's not because marriages are more toxic nowadays or because women are more independent. Strongly independent women face far more backlash from society in day-to-day life than traditional women do. Healthy feminism is largely about giving women the choice to live their lives however they choose, instead of being forced into submission. Some women will choose to be independent, just as some men may choose to live more submissive lives. Forcing everyone into traditional gender roles is not a good thing.

I wouldn't describe myself as a male feminist. I simply see how feminism fits into the world and why it's necessary. Men have dominated and abused women since the dawn of time, and they still do. Feminism's place is to be a counterbalance to that. Yea, some men will suffer because of feminist ideas, naturally. But it's not really comparable to the scale of suffering many women experience at the hands of men, which feminism exists to fight against. What happened to you is bad, and I'm sorry you had to deal with that. But most men won't have a story about how feminism has wronged them. Almost every woman will have one (if not multiple) stories about being abused physically or sexually by men. This was the point I was making. It's about the scale of the problems faced by each side.

It's not my fault you get annoyed at my posts. I just explained my view on the topic, my post wasn't really directed specifically at you. They were general points about my opinion on feminism which differ from yours. Then you responded with a weirdly hostile retort making it personal and dramatic. Now you're trying to construct some narrative where I am evil.

I haven’t really made that exact point in this thread yet. No need to be so hostile. Guarantee I could find five threads where you repeat yourself multiple times in the past week too, it’s not a big deal

I said this in another thread but the world has much bigger problems than extremist feminism. If you look at the experience many women have with men, you can see that there is a far bigger problem with even masculinity than there is with feminism I can’t think of any particular problem the existence of feminism has caused me as a guy, nor most of the girls/women that I know, but almost all of them have had a very concrete problem with men at some point in their lives Feminism has to exist to deal with that shit Yea some of the extreme feminism stuff is really dumb but it’s hardly world ending

Yea, social media algorithms radicalise a lot of the hardcore anti-SJW type dudes. The YT algorithm especially has identified it as an outrage rabbit hole, so it'll grab hold of your balls, drag you in, and never let go. It happened to me when I was like 13 or 14, it's terrible. It gives a very misleading representation of how widespread 'toxic' feminism is. And like you say, the algorithm targets socially deprived or young guys, who don't have the real world social experience to realise that most of the really horrible examples of feminism that they see online are not really representative of most women, nor are they as widespread as they are made out be.

Start doing cold approach on nights out. Go out to clubs. Or do cold approach in busy areas in the town outside clubs after the close. Girls are way more receptive when you approach them in naturally sociable places and it will make you feel like less of a creep

I've had social anxiety for my whole life. I have very lacking social skills. Setting precise goals would, I think, not be that helpful yet when I could barely introduce myself to new people or go into a busy environment until the past year. I've noticed that when I go out with little intention, with little expectations, just to have a good time, is when I end up meeting the most girls without even really trying. It's also when I make the most new friends. Maybe it's different for others but the thing that stops me from being charismatic and attractive is primarily anxiety and insecurity around my personality. Once I get over this and get into a good state I don't find I have any problems with girls. So really my goal is to develop myself socially so that I can get into that state more easily, and I feel like the rest should come naturally. Maybe it won't and I'll have to focus more specifically on being attractive to girls. Like I said, I'm still testing the waters.

Alright mate

Still a good idea to base your beliefs on something at least

It's an emotional perspective and not necessarily a rational one. I'm still working out what my perspective on pickup is. But seeing guys who are deeply ingrained in pickup culture is often just very cringy. I don't really like associating with pickup. I go out and talk to quite a lot of girls, but I view it more as learning to be a sociable and well rounded man than viewing it as pickup.

Whenever I read posts like the ones above it just makes me think "god if any of the girls you are talking to knew you were posting stuff like this online they'd run a mile" It's not that I even think it's wrong or it doesn't work, I know it does, it just makes me cringe. I think it's because it seems so tryhardy/needy/inauthentic to be idolising pickup coaches and focusing so hard on percentages and numbers

Alright mate, you do you

Mate you're on a psychonaut forum, you're gonna need to do better than that to convince people here lol

Your original wording that sparked a response from me was "I want one thing to focus on. One 'high-yield technique', as Leo talks about in his video on the 3-step formula" and I the point I wanted to make was that this mindset is too narrow and shows a misunderstanding of how women's attraction works. If you asked that question: "I want one thing to focus on. One 'high-yield technique', as Leo talks about in his video on the 3-step formula" and I responded with "don't be too logical" that single answer alone will not make you attractive to girls, but it will help. It is part of a bigger process of building yourself into an attractive guy. Do you understand? Women are not attracted to men who are manipulating them using techniques and processes. There are techniques and processes for getting better with girls, but they are not as narrow as you would like them to be. It is a holistic process where you build yourself into an attractive man by building a life and personality that is valuable to a woman. You can construct theories like this in your head all day long, it aint gonna get you laid No one has said this. What I personally said was that you were being too logical in your approach to how women's attraction works, thinking about them like computers you can get specific output from if you give them specific input, or perform a specific technique in front of them. Women's attraction is not based on logic. It's intuitive and emotional.

"Not being logical" isn't going to make you attractive women on its own. It isn't a 'high yield technique.' It isn't a magic pill. Nor was I suggesting or implying that it was. Being too logical is just one of many mistakes that guys commonly make with women. It's one of the many things you can work on to turn yourself into a complete man that is attractive to lots of women.

Give some more concrete examples of the problems caused by the extreme left then. Ones that are on the same level of toxicity and atrocity as genocide, nationalism, terrorism, curb-stomping people for their skin colour, discrimination, segregation, pedophile rings etc. Of course there are problems with the left but in the whole it is progress for our society currently to move towards the left since we’ve been right biased since the inception of humanity Most of the time you see people talking about how bad the left is, or how the feminist SJW booger-men are out to destroy us, they are also the exact people who lose power with the progression of left wing ideology, which speaks volumes

I want to agree but it’s not worth having this kind of argument with someone. The way to help people with such a mindset is to give them advice to get themselves out of their predicament, not berate them for it

You’re looking for a magic pill where no such thing exists. There is no single thing you can do to attract women. It doesn’t work like that. Women are attracted to who you are as a man, holistically. They aren’t attracted to techniques and ‘high yield’ tricks. You are viewing women like a computer. “If I do X, it will get Y result from women.” This is flawed at the core. You need to work on improving your emotionality and EQ to make progress. You’re being too logical

Personally I don’t find solo night game that hard. The hardest part is the judgement for being out in your own, but frankly the only time I’ve ever felt particularly judged for that was by club bouncers No one is judging you in a busy club unless you’re exceptionally obnoxious. You are free to experiment a lot more Whenever I feel scared or shy in a club I think about how few of the people I’ve met in clubs I’d actually recognise if I met them on the street now, or how few of them I even remember. Very very few, and that’s how they’ll all feel about you too unless you’re a top tier obnoxious arsehole A really good way to build a sociable state if you’re feeling shy is to talk to all the other guys who look kinda out of place or lonely. You’ll make them feel a lot better too, so it’s win win

Chances are if you have to say this, there's projection/judgement happening A lot of your posts are quite subtly placing yourself above others, with hints of judgement This is very flawed thinking. "I have no trauma and I'm not kinky therefore all kinks come from trauma"

I know but you've missed my point This entire style of graph appears useless. It conveys no information.

Honestly, there are bigger issues in the world than toxic feminism and extremely left wing ideology. It isn't really that big of an issue. There are always going to be extreme people in all political ideologies, and the right wing extreme is far worse than the left wing extreme. The worst examples you could come up with for the extreme left are fines for not obeying pronouns, male tax, and sending men to jail when they're accused without super concrete evidence. Yea, maybe these things are kinda dumb, but the right wing extreme wants things like genocide, segregation, eugenics and minimal tax for the absurdly wealthy. It isn't really comparable