whoareyou
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@Shaun This is what happens when you watch LEO's videos, conceptualize all day, and sit on a forum - no wonder life sucks for you.
As people stated, if you are feeling this way - clearly something is really off.
Take a break - get off the forum and do something else. Come back and re-evaluate.
The issue is that LEO derives his concepts from 5-MEO - and the vast majority of people here do not use 5-MEO. All they do is some meditation - and a LOT OF conceptualizing - which is no good.
Life is there to be enjoyed, and not for you to spend all day on a forum - thinking solipsistic thoughts (which are ultimately false).
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1 minute ago, Aakash said:i've never took a psychadelic bro, it just smacked me in the face randomly
Where you doing self-inquiry or contemplating?
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@Aakash What psychedelic did you take?
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55 minutes ago, eskwire said:"You don't know what I know, you haven't seen what I've seen. Justification for making a circus of what many more humble people have come to feel and rejecting the teachings of others."
It's ok to experience what other people already experienced and wrote down in books and Wikipedia. That's not playing it cool. It's part of the human experience. Attaching to being the MOST and the FIRST and the DEEPEST SO DEEP - this is delusion and intoxication.
But whatever, do you. Guess you have to. You're all there is.
I would agree with this, as I noticed some of this. It seems like the ego likes to hi-jack experiences and then likes to talk about how deep, etc it went and how it's the special one(like nobody ever experienced this before, etc). Happens especially with people who take psychedelics.
You see, for the EGO, it's very radical and crazy, but for GOD - it is the norm. When you integrate the things and become more GODlike - it will be something that is normal and you won't have any need to talk about how "crazy" it was, etc.
Martin Ball talks about it in his book as well. At some point I think LEO will come to realize this
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Remember, it is not necessary to retain any insights in order to get something out of the trip. Regardless if you retain insights or not, you will feel way different (in an amazing way) for days to come. 5-MEO continues to work with you well after the trip is over.
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@MezzoAria If it's freebase, then it is designed for vaping. Do not snort it or or do anything else. If you can't vape it, then it's not real 5-MEO
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18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:Realization is realization. It happens at the moment it happens. What happens afterward is another matter. In that moment there actually is no afterward because there is only the eternal NOW. Future is imaginary.
You can realize that 2 x 2 = 4. You can also forget that realization. Then you can re-realize. And so on.
It is possible to experience what the Buddha (probably) experienced and then know it.
Of course in the end we cannot know with 100% certainty what the Buddha experienced or realized. It was not necessarily the highest level. But if we give him the benefit of the doubt, let's assume it was the highest level. You can experience it too.
You actually ARE the Buddha.
I don't disagree with you on this. Yes you ARE the Buddha, you ARE God.
I was just using different wording (dualistic) and trying to make a different point.
Usually when other people refer to "enlightenment", or "liberation" they refer to what happens afterwards as well.
This matters, because this effects your entire day to day experience.
Example A: You have a realization, you return to your day to day life and nothing changes.
Example B: You have a realization, you return to your day to day life, and you notice some changes.
Example C: You have a realization (after many other realizations) and you notice a permanent shift. You are embodying what you have realized in your day to day life.
With Example A and B - people refer to them as "enlightenment experiences" or "nondual experiences". Of course all of those lead up to Example C, and are important, but I am saying this to be clear.
With Example C - people refer to "enlightenment", or to "enlightened" individuals. At that point, you would stop taking psychedelics, like Martin W Ball did. He also made a clear distinction between "nondual experience" and "liberation".
And of course it all happens NOW in the present moment, and I am describing it right now in dualistic terminology.
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8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:@whoareyou Well you gotta hit a breakthrough dose on each, which will not be the same dose.
Did you hit a breakthrough on N,N-DMT?
I did. Hitting a breakthrough with N,N-DMT is significantly harder, which is why majority of people are unable to. It requires to have a good theoretical foundation and understanding of non-duality. Why? Because it is not strong enough to simply overpower the EGO, like 5-MEO can.
When you vape 5-MEO, you can either surrender or resist it. If you surrender into experience(considering you have the right dosage), you will have a breakthrough, even if you lack that solid theoretical foundation of non-duality.
I can confirm this not only from my own experience, but other people who I know - who couldn't get a breakthrough with N-DMT, but got it through vaping 5-MEO. The difference is day and night.
If you have the option to do 5-MEO, I would advice people to just go straight to 5-MEO.
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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:I think they can both be equally powerful but in different ways.
5-MeO is not visually powerful.
There is something very freaky about your entire visual field getting replaced in 1 minute.
This is not true. I vaped both 5-MEO and N-DMT - 5-MEO blows N-DMT out of the water.
It is not even close. Also, 5-MEO is considered to be 4x as strong as N-DMT
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53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:I have read all of Martin's books, LOL. I introduced him to you guys!
Again, don't take me for a fool.
Then you are simply not conscious enough of what I am pointing out. If you read his last book carefully and become directly conscious of the things he talks about through direct experience - you will see the significant difference in Martin's approach.
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15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:The contradiction is in your mind.
There is no contradiction between learning and unlearning. Do both.
I did not say there is contradiction between learning and unlearning. Read again what I said - I said that your approaches to liberation using 5-MEO DMT are contradictory. You are not familiar with his works, you would have to read to understand the significance of what I am saying.
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3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:There is still much value to learning.
Learning is clearly a part of your identity that you constructed for yourself.
What Umar_uk is saying, goes in line with Martin W Ball's opinion - hence why I said it was a huge contradiction in your approaches.
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4 hours ago, nowimhere said:@Leo Gura Yes my smoking trips are only 2 or 3 minutes of mind fuckery. Then 45 mins of afterglow mindfuckery lol.
Definitely want to get in on the plugging train !
By comparison.... smoking (2 or 3 mins) < 60 mins non duality ... That's pretty much 20-30 times the amount of time !
No way that that much immersion wouldn't be good.
Just reached day 100 today with meditation today. Today and yesterday "broke through" to just pure white light. First time that's ever happened. Was trippy as hell. I can see how the consistency of it is what matters. Just like with 5 MEO... I can see how all of this starts to "crack the cosmic egg" with repeated practice and use over time.
You vape 5-MEO and your trips are only 2/3 minutes? You must be doing something wrong.
When I vape, the trips are between 20-30 minutes. Time-wise it may be shorter than plugging it, but it is far more intense and more potent.
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21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:I have no problem vaping 5-MeO and I will do it. I have no dogma against it. I simply have been busy with other things.
I will even vape bufo and post a comparison of all of it for you guys.
Don't take me for a fool.
I wasn't trying to say that you had a dogma for vaping. I inserted vaping here, but that was besides the point. The point was, that you may have another awakening tomorrow and change your opinion totally, where it could very much be in line with Martin's.
I have vaped both freebase and Bufo, and I can tell you already that they are identical.
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11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:We somewhat disagree. So what?
You expect all spiritual people to agree? Why do you think no two spiritual people agree 100%?
This is clearly not the case. There is a huge difference in your approach to using 5-MEO DMT/Liberation and Martin's. The approaches contradict each other very much. You don't seem to be familiar with his books, so I recommend to read the latest one, as I can't type it all here.
20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:As God I enjoy studying myself in many different ways. If you don't want that, then do whatever you want. I could spend 1 million years studying myself. And I will.
My path is what's known as Jnana yoga. It's an intellect oriented path. Other people prefer a heart oriented path. I like to dissect stuff and make sense of it.
Anti-intellectualism is not a requirement of awakening. You can do both. The Jnana yoga path is very documented in history.
Who says that there is such a thing as a "path"? Why not kill the "path" after you kill the Buddha?
I don't think we can make this assumption just because it is very documented in history.
This is something that you simply have not questioned/contemplated enough, maybe in your trips. I would not be surprised if you come tomorrow after another awakening and change your opinion.
Again, I am not saying that you are wrong, but you seem to be too convinced that it's true, when it may be not.
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7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:It's a non-issue.
You are acting as though insight is some wrong or bad. This is absurd.
Watch out for your own projections here. I never said it was "wrong" or "bad". I simply pointed out a huge contradiction between your approach and Martin W Balls' approach to liberation and usage of 5-MEO DMT.
QuoteThe whole point of the spiritual path is to gain deeper insight into the nature of self, God, and reality. This is not "ego." This self-recognition at a fine-grained level.
If you can kill the Buddha, then you can also kill the "spiritual path", right? Who said that was the point?
Again, I think this is where you and Martin W Ball disagree.
Could you allow the possibility, that tomorrow you will vape 5-MEO DMT, come back here and say exact same thing as Martin is saying? Of course.
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10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:Again, it's not such a big contradiction as you think.
Yes, I emphasize understanding and insight more than Martin does. But this does not contradict anything. I am simply interested in insight and understanding. It is definitely possible to understand yourself as God and all of the facets which you are. Not in a rational linguistic manner.
Understanding and Being are ultimately one. So there's no serious contradiction here, just a difference in emphasis.
It's not merely the ego that wants to know. God is waking up to itself. God wants to know what it is. Don't dismiss this as mere ego.
It's a bigger contradiction than you think, if you look closely enough. According to him, ego wants to understand and know everything, and that is not necessary at all, when it comes to liberation. Even the title of the chapter is "Liberation through unknowing".
He specifically stated that gathering understanding and insights is not needed when it comes to using 5-MEO - it's a desire of the ego. It's a HUGE contradiction. And this is also one of the reasons why you don't prefer to vaping it, because you would not be able to have as many insights after the trip.
It's a clear as a day to me.
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2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:There comes a point in your evolution where you must throw away all so called authority futures. You must kill the Buddha to become the Buddha.
I cannot speak to anyone's experience but my own.
I don't really contradict Ball or Tolle. I agree more than we disagree
I didn't say that you contradicted them here, but your definition of "enlightenment" is certainly different from them.
2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:.
Again, I have never said that your desire to commit "immoral" actions will increase. I simply said that no matter what action you take, you will love yourself if you are fully conscious. This is total liberation: you are free to do whatever you want and still love yourself.
You didn't say "increase", but you stated that there is no correlation between "immoral actions" and "enlightenment". This is a very big nuance.
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There is a huge contradiction to how you and Martin W Ball use 5-MEO DMT:
(What he is describing is a lot of what you are doing here. It is also one of the reasons why you prefer to plugging it, instead of vaping it. Not saying that you are wrong or that he is right, but it is important to note this, because he used 5-MEO and you do consider him to be liberated.)
Taken from Entheogenic Liberation: Unraveling The Enigma of Nonduality with 5-mEO-DMT Energetic Therapy
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Liberation Through Unknowing:Though psychedelics are great for thinking about things and exploring issues intellectually, such uses are not a necessary ingredient for nondual energy work with psychedelics. This is because the nondual state cannot be understood rationally or conceptually, so all such attemps to m"make sense" of the experience, especially as it is unfolding, are doomed to failure. Trying to understand the full 5-MEO DMT experience as it is happening is a fool's errand. And even post-session, spending too much time trying to understand or conceptualize it is often a waste of time, and can be a distraction from the true value of the work, which is direct energetic experience and processing.
You do not need to understand something to receive benefit from it. The ego likes to think it understands things so it can fee like it is in control and is its own master. That's just the ego being ego. Always remember that it is strictly your ego that wants to know. The ego wants to identify and classify everything and put reality and experience into neat conceptual boxes, thereby providing illusion of understanding and control. Some people respond to their nondual experience by turning to religion and esoteric metaphysics and symbolism in an attempt to find relevant boxes and categories for their experience.
Many people approach psychedelic experience as some kind of metaphysical retrieval process and place a great deal of emphasis and value on the concept of "bringing something back" from the session in terms of insights, revelations, and new understandings. Some even disparage the use of DMT and 5-MEO DMT as being too powerful and too brief to effectively accomplish this valued task. Needless to say, such a view completely and thoroughly misses the point of nondual energy therapy. There is nothing to "bring back" because there isn't anywhere to go, and there's nothing to be understood. The only relevant revelation is that you are God, and this isn't something that can be understood, though it can be experienced and the experience itself has infinite value as it helps you learn how to relax into your genuine nature and be yourself without attachment and illusion.
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6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:Again, you are trying to frame this in a binary way, which I reject.
There are many degrees of awakening. I have some degree of it, not the highest degree, and I am not immune to all pain/suffering. Although there have been times when I was so conscious that pain and suffering were realized to be no different than pleasure. But the body/mind is still not stupid. It still prefers to avoid physical pain, and it still has various desires. Pain, suffering, and desire are really not obstacles when you realize what they are. They are perfectly natural and even good. The desire to eliminate all desire is itself rather delusional. What I've realized is to embrace desire rather than to demonize it.
It is perfectly okay if I desire sex, or even if I desire to murder someone. Who are you to say it's "wrong"? That would be ego judging.
In a sense, liberation just means that you realize that everything is perfect no matter how anything unfolds. So if you suffer, and you realize that's perfect, you are free of it even though pain is being felt.
You are trying to categorize people as "fully awake" but in practice this is very problematic. I don't know if anyone ever is "fully awake" all the time. From what I understand this isn't really possible as you could hardly function as a human at that point. I much prefer to think of it as a spectrum with dozens of degrees of awakeness with perhaps no lower or upper bound.
Do you understand that the people who you consider to be enlightened frame it this way? One of whom took 10x more 5-MEO than you have. Martin W Ball makes it very clear and that is how he described his own process. He had many "non-dual experiences" until he totally liberated himself.
Eckhart Tolle who you also consider to be enlightened, defines enlightenment as the end of suffering (psychological), and full awakeness, always having non-dual awareness in the background, and in the present moment.
3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:What I said is simply the case.
At the highest level, no wrong can be done.
Of course I don't recommend you go around murdering people. But if you do, that will be okay too.
That is literally the highest form of love. In the end all evil is you own creation. So you might as well love it.
I am not a Buddhist and I do not recognize moral norms because they are ultimately delusions.
Yes, what I am speaking of here is the Absolute "perspective" so to speak. Relatively we obey laws to produce a livable society.
Yes, Absolute Love is black & white by its very nature. There is zero room for not-love.
Perhaps you have not become conscious of Absolute Love? It's a radical thing. It does not hold back for Buddhist moral norms. Remember, when you see the Buddha, kill him
This is again where other people who you consider to be "enlightened" would disagree. Guys like Eckhart Tolle, and Rupert Spira would tell you that morals are there to limit the EGO, and once the person becomes conscious, morals are no longer needed. They are saying that actions that you consider "immoral" are usually very egoic by nature, so it doesn't make any sense for an enlightened being to go around murdering people.
Also based from my own "awakenings", I noticed what they are saying is true - the desire to commit "immoral" actions reduces tenfold automatically. Which makes me doubt some of the things that you are saying, it reminds me of "zen delivery" very much.
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2 minutes ago, Barna said:I also had the same question.
You might get surprised, but I decided that I will move to California. There are a few reasons for it:
- it's easy to live a zero CO2 emission life there. The county is unmatched in the speed that it's moving into using renewable energy sources, like solar. And for a Californian salary one can afford to buy an electric car and put some solar panels on the roof of the house. As we develop and we become more caring, protecting the environment will become more and more important
- The people there seem to be also conscious about their diet. If you move there then probably most of the people you choose to hang out with will be vegetarians
- The people are very open minded there. They legalized weed and now they're on the way of legalizing other psychedelics as well. It's a pity that the laws are changing so slowly, but it's good to see that the people there are already open to these substances. The trend of microdosing LSD originates from there
- If you like to have fun with open minded people, Burning Man is nearby every summer
- My favorite spiritual teachers live nearby (Adyashanti, Matt Kahn, Leo)
Can you think about a better place to live for spiritual people?
A country where 5-MEO is legal would be by far better. It is the best place, because 5-MEO is really all you need.
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with cosmetic surgery. Just be honest with yourself as to why you do it and get it done.
Is it wrong that women everyday put on makeup? Is it wrong that people choose to wear nice clothes? If not, then there is nothing wrong with this either.
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1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:@whoareyou no..you thought there is this moment where OMG i am actually enlightened happens! Because it's a fantasy in your mind. Have you had any direct mystical experiences and if so what did they reveal? I'm asking another legit question too. And you failed to answer my last.
This is not true, I have explained myself over 10 times, go back and read what I wrote. Even another user provided you a perfect analogy. It is not my problem that your English language comprehension is so poor, or that you are just too stubborn to see what I said. I will not continue to waste anymore of my time on you.
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18 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:@whoareyou that's not what you were saying. You were implying that earlier experiences compared to latter ones were not enlightenment. I am saying they all cause shifts in consciousness. So no shift is greater than another.
No that is not what I was saying. I never said that the early experiences made no difference. I was talking about a specific nuance, which you still don't seem to understand.
1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:@whoareyou if you can't see that by now you are blind.
I don't understand what is your problem. Maybe go and take a break, I am asking legit questions here.
in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Posted · Edited by whoareyou
You totally nailed it, I have noticed the same. Seeking is a hard trap to get out of.
It really does seem like a form of addiction, which ironically is what is keeping him back from the "deeper" which he is seeking