Consilience
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Posts posted by Consilience
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Such a high quality post! Thank you so much man.
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2 hours ago, tatsumaru said:Additionally at the highest level of Buddhism (Vajrayana) there are very few mentions of meditation and most practitioners are occupied with something called non-meditation which although has a dumb name is actually a specific practice that I do not understand.
Not sure where you’re getting this information from. Vajrayana has some of the most overly complex meditation methods out there. Practitioners spend time visualizing elaborate deities, remolding their identity through these images to see the fluidity and emptiness of the personal identity. Im not a Buddhist scholar, but I wouldn’t classify this tradition as the “highest” Buddhism if we’re going off of what the Buddha actually taught, based off of the Pali Canon. Meditation and Buddhism are inextricably linked based on this text.
Overall, I would say one needs to explore this for themselves. Meditation is very likely to help its practitioners suffer less, be happier, understand themselves more deeply, love more openly, appreciate the world, and find a spirit of giving within themselves. Never mind the fact that there are countless reports of meditation being an effective method for full blown enlightenment.
Someone who’s truly awake will see the wisdom in honoring each individual’s path. Whether that path includes meditation or not is for the individual to decide, but the likelihood of someone reaching enlightenment without spending significant periods of time in some kind of silent, reflective environment is low.
Practically this means, try meditation or dont. If we do, we can trust gut with whether it resonates. The intelligence beyond our identity will guide us with whether to pivot or go deeper if we have the wisdom to listen.
On an aside, the ego will do everything in its power to justify NOT sitting down in silence doing nothing.
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1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:I wonder if doing psychideilcs has allowed you go to deeper into sober meditation than you otherwise could have.
I think so. I think psychedelics + having a really solid epistemological framework from Leo’s videos has definitely increased the effectiveness.
Psychedelics are so powerful at blasting through the mind’s blind spots... combine that with intense practice and man you’ve got the mother of all combos. It’s unfortunate so many people on the forum dismiss the effectiveness of practice. Doubt is one of the big hinderances Buddhism talks about, and for good reasons.
It took me about 1000 hours of meditation in around 3 years before things started to really take off, but wow once it starts taking off there’s no going back. I think everyone’s requirements will be different but psychedelics and deep philosophical inquiry via Actualized.org videos helps speed things up, a lot actually. EDIT: And using a technique or techniques that resonate with you.
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One thing Id like to add about this manual practice path, the build up is really fucking slow, but after a certain point you’ll start to experience exponential take off with the states your capable of reaching while sober. Lookup “Shinzen Young’s hockey stick metaphor” on youtube for details on this dynamic.
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8 minutes ago, Sempiternity said:Psychedelics is the answer you're looking for, the most direct route to the deepest state of consciousness.
Be careful with this attitude. They are the most direct route but also extremely fleeting and not great for accessing deep states 24/7.
@machiavelli You’ll need a very rigorous formal practice like self inquiry or meditation, think 2+ hours per day, going on yearly retreats or more, and will need to either practice mindfulness 24/7 or as @The0Self mentioned, 24/7 self inquiry.
Psychedelics are fantastic, and you should definitely find a way of incorporating them into your “spiritual work” but to integrate these profound states into daily life, you’ll need manual practice. But make no mistake, you can profoundly increase your baseline, sober state of conscious. Cannot emphasize this enough.
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Spend a few years devoted to mmm... 1-4 hours per day in silent reflection whether through seated meditation or contemplation and you’ll have your answer.
For myself, yes. I have seen astronomical shifts in consciousness from having a serious formal meditation practice. I have experienced radical states and experiences through practice. It’s abnormal for meditation to not feel like Im on a low dose of psychedelics these days.
By formal Im meaning seated, in silence, and in stillness, without distraction. Yet, very easily someone could start arguing with me about why silent reflection isn't a big deal and is certainly incapable facilitating deep transformations or elevations of one’s consciousness.
There are countless anecdotes on the internet proving it has some measurable effect. The only way you’ll know for sure is by testing it on yourself.
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This is very sad to hear. I remember finding Jeff Foster awhile back and being profoundly touched by his talks on YouTube, he really helped ground these lofty spiritual ideas into the reality of human experience. To read this is... humbling and heart breaking.
This is why I will always practice meditation and why I take practice so seriously. This is why the neo advaita philosophy is so shallow as far as Im concerned. When the conditions of life shift in an instant, how ready are we really? How awakened are we really? How deeply do we see, understand, and accept reality? In many ways, the degree to which we suffer is inversely proportional to the degree to which we are awake. We will all face aging, illness, and death, most of us will face aging, illness, and death before we are ready. It can all be taken away in an instant. It will all be taken away in an instant. May we all have the clarity and openness to acknowledge and accept this loving experience of life, independent of the conditions and qualities it presents. May we see the deeper reality residing beneath.
May we all be free from suffering. May we all be truly happy.
Sending him love and light.
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40 minutes ago, Emerald said:In fact, I’m going to go one step further and say you are unlikely to develop a healthy relationship with animals unless you eat them.
It feels like my relationship with all animals has vastly improved since I stopped eating them. I'd be interested in hearing your rational for this as well.
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6 minutes ago, The0Self said:According to the Ra material Earth is now 4th density. We apparently barely scraped by at 51% from what I remember.
Looks like it IS amateur hour!
Honestly Im not sure I believe that 51% of the collective psyche is in 4th density. The only way that would be feasible is if single individuals contributed more to the density than others... maybe. I just don’t see it.
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Earth is very much a 3rd density planet transitioning to 4th based on the Ra material. Amateur hour...
Have these recovered memories helped you be happier and or suffer less?
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On 4/27/2021 at 10:05 AM, Flyboy said:Guru Viking would be an awesome experience, he's very experienced, down to earth, and highly multi-perspectival.
I love Guru Viking! Just did his strong determination sitting course and it was super powerful. His Podcast is also VERY interesting even if small. I imagine if Leo is doing this to lay the groundwork for his book, he'd want a podcast with a bigger audience than Steve.
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It’s both. When you start to embody both... things start to be experienced as pure magic on a daily basis
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Super interesting report! Thank you.
I did the ENB and TSW fall 2019 and am planning on doing the two week CI later this year. Your reaction to Peter outlined here is very similar to what my own was, however as time has passed, there’s a softness that’s grown in my interpretation of him. He’s the real deal.
Brendan is great too. I actually had a small medical emergency in the middle of one of the workshops and without hesitation or any sort of reaction or judgment Brendan drove us into town to get medication. Incredibly chill, grounded, funny, and developed dude. It was like a real life scenario where he displayed the work he’d done with Cheng Hsin. The moment I communicated the situation it was like a switch flipped and he handled the logistics. Again no judgement, making me feel bad, ignoring or down playing the severity.
I really don't resonate with Peter on Brendan’s views on meditation or psychedelics, but then again that’s not the work they’re concerned with. In terms of becoming conscious of the mechanisms of mind, self, consciousness, etc., amazing.
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I use Shinzen Young's See Hear Feel technique pretty frequently while I'm bopping around life taking care of business. It's an extremely effective technique for life practice and also really effective for silent formal practice. I've tried following the breath 24/7 throughout the day or like just trying to stay openly aware, never works. Systematically noting experience though does actually have a carry over effect to formal meditation as well as just increasing the fulfillment and happiness of life.
Also doing more formal meditation practice will naturally carry over into your life and make everything more meditative. Practicing 1 hour will have a different effect on life than 3 hours, for example. -
I think the teaching is pointing to non-egoic desire, desire originating from the authentic self, the self that’s healed its traumas and is a vehicle or super conductor for the absolute.
What is life desiring of you? That is your highest desire. In a sense. Often times this is not aligned with our selfish, egoic survival agendas.
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On 4/15/2021 at 4:02 PM, Breakingthewall said:It's funny that he says that when he spent 15 years meditating for several hours a day (if I remember correctly) until, according to him, he became enlightened
Yes that’s my only critique of this pointer. I specifically remember him saying in a video that at his peak he was spending 4 hours a day meditating... like god damn dude that’s going to have some type of measurable effect on perception and one’s understanding of self and world.
My personal approach has been try to practice my ass off like these spiritual masters but always, ALWAYS, remember and actively recognize the meta-context that reality is already perfect, and truth is already what is. Primordial perfection, absolute truth, could never not be the case.
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It’s Love. Love is the only thing that would or could be totally, utterly actual in any and all ways. Love is the only thing that could and would be totally, utterly accepting in any and all ways. When experiencing the deepest levels of reality, Love is really the only word that captures the essence of its being. Yes calling reality reality is true. But Love would love that too.
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Amazing thread!
Son. Don’t be afraid to look a person in the eyes when you speak. What you have to say matters, what you have to share with another is valid, don’t let anyone convince you otherwise. Don’t ever be afraid to express what you authentically feel to another both through language, but also through presence.
Son. Listen more than you speak. Observe more than you express. The world is full of mystery and wonder for those who have the awareness to watch. The world is full of lessons and opportunity for those humble enough to learn and consider.
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15 minutes ago, Enlightenment said:you may be able to reduce some suffering through spiritual practice but not gain cognition and functionally back.
This is simply false. You need to talk to more serious meditators who have gone through depression. A combination of hardcore practice, meds and therapy is a powerful healing combo.
16 minutes ago, Enlightenment said:Again, states you're referring to where there is no aversion doesn't last long, it's extremely hard to become so good at meditation to have them on demand at least for a moment.
Again you need to talk to more serious meditators. This is simply false and there are ample anecdotes proving otherwise. It’s clear you are not speaking from direct experience or if you are, you’re not speaking from an advanced level. Get 5000+ hours of personal practice under your belt and then talk about how on demand happiness, equanimity, ease, spaciousness, concentration, etc. are. They are very on demand assuming physical health and physical safety needs are taken care of and stable. Yet there are still plenty of anecdotes of people with terminal and chronic pain illness facing it with radically less levels of less suffering than the average human because of hardcore meditation practice.
19 minutes ago, Enlightenment said:Depression is a deeply embedded adaptive mechanism you ain't curing it through meditation. Maybe it is possible to do make some profound fix if one would be getting a constant high dose stream of 5-MeO to the brain, like Leo talks about updating your neurotransmitters but IDK if it's even possible.
All of this should be deeply challenged. How many hours of personal practice have you accumulated? Do you have a daily practice? Do you skip sessions? How long is your daily practice? How many retreats have you gone on? How many books and real masters have you studied with, watched videos on, or read the books of? How much personal contemplation or journaling on meditation and transformation have you done? Do you honestly think the most complex system known to man is incapable of upgrading its own neurotransmitters? Do you think The Buddha who was swimming in hedonism until his mid 20s was naturally enlightened and the hardcore asceticism/thousands of hours practice had no bearing or effect on his neurotransmitter composition?
Not trying to be aggressive here and Im also not directing this comment at you specifically but anyone reading the thread. It’s very clear Leo has a huge bias on this topic yet we should consider 1) Leo’s relative lack of experience, 2) his health issues which will 100% affect his results with manual practice, and 3) the ego’s self deception mechanisms and how it’ll do anything to justify not sitting in the void of personal boredom.
Personally questioning we’re so averse to boredom and the ordinary state is critical towards bridging the gap between these absurdly powerful psychedelic states and the ordinary waking experience. Taking on the belief that such a bridge is impossible to build is a huge trap on the psychedelic path and as you’ll discover upon deep inquiry, an incredibly subtle defense mechanism of the ego.
Defend the genetic spiritual talent argument all you’d like. But in 10 years when you’re still suffering, still having to use psychedelics to get reach god consciousness, well... hopefully it doesn’t take 10 years to see the emptiness of this position ?
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@Girzo He would deny it because the first few years of living in a monastery he had horrible results and considered quitting, at least that’s what Ive heard. He has communicated how his first few years of real practice yielded pitiful results. Although that’s technically all hearsay.
I think his meditation talent has more to do with thousands upon thousands of hours training. Imo his real talent is his ability to distill complicated buddhist language and concepts into a digestible format for the western mind.
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25 minutes ago, trenton said:This mindset reminds me of religion. Religion becomes susceptible to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy when they say somebody didn't really believe or have faith. In the case of other spiritual groups there are many people devoted to spirituality who never awaken through traditional means. We need to be careful when attributing a failure to awaken to a lack of desire for self knowledge.
Maybe we could be committing the same fallacy as religion when we assume anybody can awaken by traditional means if they have a strong enough desire to do so. From this point of view it also does not make sense to act as if spirituality is for everybody because there is evidence that it isn't. If somebody is not spiritually gifted and they are resistant to psychedelics, how would they awaken if they were truly passionate about Truth?
Perhaps so.
However, Im not saying desire or faith alone is enough though. So really trying to say “you need more faith!” would be a misunderstanding of what Im attempting to point at. Or at least an interpretation Im not attempting to communicate. Im specifically saying psychedelics aren’t needed. Critical distinction.
Framing it another way, if someone were to want to awaken without psychedelics, if their authentic calling was to not use drugs (which there are multiple people on this forum that aren’t against drugs, but prefer not to use them for x, y, or z reasoning), I believe it is possible without psychedelics.
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7 minutes ago, Forestluv said:My impression is that the construct is about spirituality, not the the singularity of ISness.
In the context of spirituality, a self / ego is not needed. That is an add-in. In actuality, very little ego / self would be operative in the spiritually gifted. Self dissolution may be hard to imagine and access for normies, yet it is easy stuff for the spiritually gifted.
In terms of genetics, this could mean that those genetically gifted for spirituality have a very unique neural network in the DMN (which controls self / ego). There DMN is naturally disconnected, which only occurs in 1% of people or so. The rest of us would need psychedelics or years of mediation / yoga to get glimpses of that.
Im not sure what the first paragraph means. From my pov my writing here is more oriented towards ISness, not spirituality.
Your description of the spiritually gifted makes total sense to me. I imagine as we advance in neuroscience and particularly in the field of psychedelic neuroscience, we’ll get better and better at knowing how to access these states, and possible even facilitate them without psychedelics.
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7 minutes ago, Thought Art said:Note that God, the Unity in it manifests as Duality. This is why we have different states of consciousness and why many people, who are God themselves deny they are God.
Yes, it's all God's consciousness but don't think that a Donkey is as aware of itself as a human. Or an average human as God on Earth in human form.
I never once said the average human was aware of this, merely making the claim that the genetic makeup required to know this is there. To manifest this potential would require obscene amounts of work the average human would never do. Doesn’t mean the genetic potential isnt there.
damson
in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Posted
@Leo Gura Never underestimate the value in planting seeds. The first time I saw one of your videos I was completely turned off, utterly disgusted, no offense. But somehow what you were talking about just felt too radical not to keep digging into... And I am eternally grateful for YOU that I did. I would not be where I am had I not stumbled into your content.
These types of interviews even if not proving very fruitful at the surface, can very well be planting these seeds in others at the depths. Even if they don't look into your teachings more, they may stumble into another spiritual teacher because of what they heard you talking about. I would encourage you to keep going with these every so often. You may find you get better at nailing down effective ways at communicating with those at a lower level.