Post-enlightenment questions

[Yimpa]

Best to take what people say with a Grain of God.

[Breakingthewall]

10 hours ago, mike41 said:

Enlightenment to me means that my conscious mind is calm and quiet.  I am able to see more clearly the reality around me rather than being bothered by judgements, delusions and internal motivations.  I no longer feel anxiety or fear in significant amounts.  I still find the occasional attachment (the last was an attachment to understanding) but they are quite easily removed.  My attention has turned from inwards to outwards and I experience people in a way that is new to me.   I still learn, but from practical experience.  It's the same life as before but the depth of it has expanded so much that it's quite different. 

 

enlightenment is more than that. It is when you can completely let go of the self and limitless reality manifests. It is a complete mystical experience, in which your being opens like a plant that was closed on itself, and the unimaginable absolute manifests itself. mystical ecstasy, total understanding empty of content. Then you are back in the limited state. The interesting thing is being able to open that state at will

[cetus]

13 hours ago, mike41 said:

1) Do you tell people you are enlightened?

No - at best you will experience a complete lack of understanding, at worst everyone will project their own delusions of enlightenment or it's impossibility on you. 

2) Would you tell a romantic partner?  When?

I'll just leave that for the reason above.

You wanted answers and you got them. Just not in the way you expected.

[An young being]

12 hours ago, mike41 said:

Enlightenment to me means that my conscious mind is calm and quiet.  I am able to see more clearly the reality around me rather than being bothered by judgements, delusions and internal motivations.  I no longer feel anxiety or fear in significant amounts.  I still find the occasional attachment (the last was an attachment to understanding) but they are quite easily removed.  My attention has turned from inwards to outwards and I experience people in a way that is new to me.   I still learn, but from practical experience.  It's the same life as before but the depth of it has expanded so much that it's quite different. 

 

What you are describing is a state of equanimity. Enlightenment may or may not be a suitable word to describe that, since different people have different definitions for Enlightenment. For example, enlightenment for me means when there are no questions or doubts or conflicts arising in your mind regarding reality or who you are. Some people describe awakening, which is an experience of ego dissolution, as a source of enlightenment, although I would describe it more or less as a pointer to Enlightenment. Equanimity could also be a result of awakening, or could be a cause, although it's not the only way to achieve it. Also, I believe enlightenment is not a permanent or a fixed state of mind, so a person enlightened today may not be enlightened tomorrow or a person who was born enlightened may not grow up enlightened. So, instead of searching for enlightened people, I would suggest you to search for enlightened thoughts, which you maybe find across internet and the world, including this forum.

[Razard86]

13 minutes ago, An young being said:

What you are describing is a state of equanimity. Enlightenment may or may not be a suitable word to describe that, since different people have different definitions for Enlightenment. For example, enlightenment for me means when there are no questions or doubts or conflicts arising in your mind regarding reality or who you are. Some people describe awakening, which is an experience of ego dissolution, as a source of enlightenment, although I would describe it more or less as a pointer to Enlightenment. Equanimity could also be a result of awakening, or could be a cause, although it's not the only way to achieve it. Also, I believe enlightenment is not a permanent or a fixed state of mind, so a person enlightened today may not be enlightened tomorrow or a person who was born enlightened may not grow up enlightened. So, instead of searching for enlightened people, I would suggest you to search for enlightened thoughts, which you maybe find across internet and the world, including this forum.

You all complicate Enlightenment so much, its none of that. I'll give an example so it makes sense.

Let's say you are Mario in a video game, and you become aware ABSOLUTELY that you are a video game character and the video game itself!! Well now you are officially enlightened. Now let's say there is another video game character let's say there name is LEO and they tell you, well I understand MORE of what is going on!! I discovered the code and how to jump between stages, so you aren't really woke at all!!! HAHAHHA

Is Mario still enlightened? YES!!! The point was to realize he was a video game character and the video game itself. But does Leo have a higher more indepth understanding? Yes, because he figured out how to jump between stages so he is operating more from the video game identity which is creator mode. So both are enlightened and are sufficient to wake any other characters up, but that Leo character can offer them something beyond just enlightenment.

With that said this is not an endorsement of Leo, it's just letting you know that you all are letting Leo confuse you. He poo poos it because from his point of view he is saying he discovered a more FREE WAY to experience reality than just awareness of what is going on offers. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Razard86

[An young being]

11 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

. So both are enlightened and are sufficient to wake any other characters up, but that Leo character can offer them something beyond just enlightenment.

Like I said earlier, enlightenment here equals awakening for you, whereas it's something else for me or some others. Many describe it being something different. But like you have said, I agree that you can only help wake other people. You cannot enlighten them. It's a personal journey in my opinion and may even vary for each individual. I myself earlier was confused with the definitions of what means  what, but I always believe both of the words are not the same.

[Bazooka Jesus]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

enlightenment is more than that. It is when you can completely let go of the self and limitless reality manifests. It is a complete mystical experience, in which your being opens like a plant that was closed on itself, and the unimaginable absolute manifests itself. mystical ecstasy, total understanding empty of content. Then you are back in the limited state. The interesting thing is being able to open that state at will

That is a mystical experience, not "enlightenment".

Enlightenment is not a state. It is the transcendence of all states.

12 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Best to take what people say with a Grain of God.

Exactly. 

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Bazooka Jesus

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

That is a mystical experience, not "enlightenment".

Enlightenment is not a state. It is the transcendence of all states.

You are always in a state, by definition. state is being, and you always are. Reaching a state of total openness is temporary, but the more it happens, the more that opening becomes transparent in the normal everyday state.

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, An young being said:

Like I said earlier, enlightenment here equals awakening for you, whereas it's something else for me or some others. Many describe it being something different. But like you have said, I agree that you can only help wake other people. You cannot enlighten them. It's a personal journey in my opinion and may even vary for each individual. I myself earlier was confused with the definitions of what means  what, but I always believe both of the words are not the same.

It's called enlightenment. Enlightenment =To illuminate from within. What is this illumination? The illumination is that what you think is seperate or outside is the same as within. Awakening is just a momentary experience, a flickering. Enlightenment is no longer a flicker, the light stays on and doesn't go out.

So unless your daily experience has dissolved the barrier between outside and inside, then you are not Enlightened. You may have had an awakening, but enlightenment is permanent. You have to fool yourself to not be enlightened, once you have seen through you cannot fool yourself anymore. You can pretend if you want but the seriousness is gone. Hell you can pretend to be serious if you want.

 

[Bazooka Jesus]

38 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You are always in a state, by definition

Hence "transcendence".

Transcendence ≠ Getting out of / rid of.

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

So unless your daily experience has dissolved the barrier between outside and inside, then you are not Enlightened. You may have had an awakening, but enlightenment is permanent

Agree, enlightenment as you described is being one with existence, which is always the case, obviously, and you need to deceive yourself, that is, put up mental barriers, to perceive the separation between yourself and existence.

but once you are one with existence, there are levels of depth. Existence is the flow of life, what you call love, but I don't like that word because it implies other things, I prefer life, glory, existence. So once you have broken the separation, your connection to source, to yourself, is still hindered by the need to conceptualize and understand. that is still a separating agent. That I'm God imagining reality because... add whatever, it's separation. is a lie. don't you see it?

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Hence "transcendence".

Transcendence ≠ Getting out of / rid of.

You can't transcend the fact of being, just the interpretation. Mystical state is not an interpretation, is a state where it's a high level of opening. It's just a word that points a high opening , not anything different than a normal state, just more open, until the total opening, where there are no more barriers

[Bazooka Jesus]

@Breakingthewall

My state-ment still stands.

2 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Enlightenment is not a state. It is the transcendence of all states.

 

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Agree, enlightenment as you described is being one with existence, which is always the case, obviously, and you need to deceive yourself, that is, put up mental barriers, to perceive the separation between yourself and existence.

but once you are one with existence, there are levels of depth. Existence is the flow of life, what you call love, but I don't like that word because it implies other things, I prefer life, glory, existence. So once you have broken the separation, your connection to source, to yourself, is still hindered by the need to conceptualize and understand. that is still a separating agent. That I'm God imagining reality because... add whatever, it's separation. is a lie. don't you see it?

If you don't like the word love, you can replace it with caring. 

God is indifferent because God equally cares about everything. When you watch a movie the screen equally cares about everything that appears. So you can use care if you want. Existence cares about itself absolutely.

You are attempting to separate yourself from separation. Attempting to separate yourself from separation is also a lie. Stop trying to escape!! LOL. You are trying so hard to escape. 

I'll explain what my experience is since you guys don't seem to get it. I experience BOTH separation and the lack of separation. Get it? Your whole life before enlightenment is just separation. When the boundary falls you experience BOTH. Nonduality INCLUDES DUALITY!!! It is just pointing to the fact that you are only eating one side of the cake, you can also eat the other side. 

That's why they use the before enlightenment chop wood carry water, then you get enlightened and you go back to chopping wood carrying water. Enlightenment is freedom because you realize you can look at life however you want. The only reason we push towards silence, is because the only truth is what is, and it doesn't need our conceptualization. But guess what? Conceptualization is actually play. We don't do it because it needs it, existence doesn't need anything. We do it because its fun!! We do it because...what else is there to do? There is nothing else to do!!!

There is no reason to do anything, and that is the reason to do anything. God creates itself as a child, and is free to do what it wants and is socialized into being an adult, and then awakens and realizes it is okay to be a child. Do whatever you want. Regain your child-like imagination.

[Princess Arabia]

32 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

If you don't like the word love, you can replace it with caring. 

God is indifferent because God equally cares about everything. When you watch a movie the screen equally cares about everything that appears. So you can use care if you want. Existence cares about itself absolutely.

You are attempting to separate yourself from separation. Attempting to separate yourself from separation is also a lie. Stop trying to escape!! LOL. You are trying so hard to escape. 

I'll explain what my experience is since you guys don't seem to get it. I experience BOTH separation and the lack of separation. Get it? Your whole life before enlightenment is just separation. When the boundary falls you experience BOTH. Nonduality INCLUDES DUALITY!!! It is just pointing to the fact that you are only eating one side of the cake, you can also eat the other side. 

That's why they use the before enlightenment chop wood carry water, then you get enlightened and you go back to chopping wood carrying water. Enlightenment is freedom because you realize you can look at life however you want. The only reason we push towards silence, is because the only truth is what is, and it doesn't need our conceptualization. But guess what? Conceptualization is actually play. We don't do it because it needs it, existence doesn't need anything. We do it because its fun!! We do it because...what else is there to do? There is nothing else to do!!!

There is no reason to do anything, and that is the reason to do anything. God creates itself as a child, and is free to do what it wants and is socialized into being an adult, and then awakens and realizes it is okay to be a child. Do whatever you want. Regain your child-like imagination.

We are so fortunate to have you here on this forum. You are the real deal. The Universe is working it's magic through you in a very powerful way. The energy you generate from within is being generated with extreme power, like a turbo carwash using full force of it's water force to wash the cars. I can feel it from where I am whenever I read your words. It isn't Razard speaking it's the I AM force within you and it is using you because you have allowed it. You have given it full permission and it is jumping for joy within you saying "yes, yes, here's one, let's use this one for upliftment in spreading the love, the word; just like how the negative energy force of the one that's thinking suicidal thoughts, the energy is also in full force saying, yes yes, let's hang here and have a party, and the hate energy saying yes yes come on over here and it searches for where it is welcome, and the doubt energy and the envy energy and the jealous energy....

It's all one energy being manipulated into various forms, but we have the power to move it and direct it where and how we want it to go. The problem is, it is being done unconsciously. Which breeds suffering and unconscious behavior without us realizing that we are doing it to ourselves. Thank you for being here and please continue to shine your light of awareness on this forum where it is so needed; and those of us who can see it will, and will welcome it with open arms and use it to transform the same energy that's within us waiting to come to light and to explode like it has within you.

[mike41]

3 hours ago, Razard86 said:

It's called enlightenment. Enlightenment =To illuminate from within. What is this illumination? The illumination is that what you think is seperate or outside is the same as within. Awakening is just a momentary experience, a flickering. Enlightenment is no longer a flicker, the light stays on and doesn't go out.

So unless your daily experience has dissolved the barrier between outside and inside, then you are not Enlightened. You may have had an awakening, but enlightenment is permanent. You have to fool yourself to not be enlightened, once you have seen through you cannot fool yourself anymore. You can pretend if you want but the seriousness is gone. Hell you can pretend to be serious if you want.

 

By that definition I am enlightened.  The light stays on and it has been on for some time. 

What needs to go in my life is all the past habits and ways of existing that no longer serve me well.  I have previously been watching them dissolve at their own pace.  To be honest the experience of the awakening has been such a rush that I've just been floating.  Now it's time to be more intentional with destroying my self.  It's a strange experience to take large parts of your self and dump them in the trash heap without ceremony, even stranger that it's so easily done.

As an example, last night I lied to my date.  She asked a question that had an answer that she wouldn't like.  I watched myself do it and knew that it was wrong .  So this morning I had a thought about it and realized that I lied because I was trying to control the outcome.  I was trying to control the outcome because I was attached to it.  I was attached to the outcome because I want to be emotionally and physically close to someone.  But the outcome is her choice and she deserves to be given all the best information that I can provide, even if that means she decides to choose someone else.  I could have a meaningful relationship with many women.  If she runs from the hills because I was truthful then there are emotional barriers in between us which defeats the point of being emotionally close.  So I'll just correct my mistake the next time we are alone and if that means I'm on a new date next week with someone else, so be it.

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

God is indifferent because God equally cares about everything. When you watch a movie the screen equally cares about everything that appears. So you can use care if you want. Existence cares about itself absolutely.

I don't understand what do you mean by god. 

[Princess Arabia]

45 minutes ago, mike41 said:

By that definition I am enlightened.  The light stays on and it has been on for some time. 

What needs to go in my life is all the past habits and ways of existing that no longer serve me well.  I have previously been watching them dissolve at their own pace.  To be honest the experience of the awakening has been such a rush that I've just been floating.  Now it's time to be more intentional with destroying my self.  It's a strange experience to take large parts of your self and dump them in the trash heap without ceremony, even stranger that it's so easily done.

As an example, last night I lied to my date.  She asked a question that had an answer that she wouldn't like.  I watched myself do it and knew that it was wrong .  So this morning I had a thought about it and realized that I lied because I was trying to control the outcome.  I was trying to control the outcome because I was attached to it.  I was attached to the outcome because I want to be emotionally and physically close to someone.  But the outcome is her choice and she deserves to be given all the best information that I can provide, even if that means she decides to choose someone else.  I could have a meaningful relationship with many women.  If she runs from the hills because I was truthful then there are emotional barriers in between us which defeats the point of being emotionally close.  So I'll just correct my mistake the next time we are alone and if that means I'm on a new date next week with someone else, so be it.

45 minutes ago, mike41 said:

By that definition I am enlightened.

Everyone is already Enlightened. They just haven't recognized it in themselves yet. I'm not saying you haven't, but saying I AM Enlightened is redundant because that is what the AM is. The I AM is that. 

 

45 minutes ago, mike41 said:

What needs to go in my life is all the past habits and ways of existing that no longer serve me well.

Each moment is a new moment. You are changing every nano second. You are not the same being you were a second ago. The past doesn't need to change because the past doesn't exist. The beauty of life is that there are no judgements, no regrets and you can erase all memory and start from scratch on the screen of space. All you have to do is become that which you want to become NOW using your imagination and stay there long enough for the seed to grow. You are tarnishing it with memories that are just images in your mind. That's not who you are.

 

45 minutes ago, mike41 said:

But the outcome is her choice and she deserves to be given all the best information that I can provide, even if that means she decides to choose someone else. 

The outcome is YOUR choice. No matter what information you give her, it will still determine YOUR outcome because she is only a reflection of you. 

 

45 minutes ago, mike41 said:

So I'll just correct my mistake the next time we are alone and if that means I'm on a new date next week with someone else, so be it.

There are no mistakes only conscious awareness. Being aware of something can cure itself. You don't have to say anything to her about your perceived mistake, just say and or do whatever it is you would like to say or do and treat the matter as if it never existed and begin to move in the direction of how you would like to see the date progress.