New War In Israel / Gaza

[Vrubel]

22 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Well those people are seen as thieves that stole their houses and killed them for decades.

So they are not innocent in their eyes. It is like Jews getting their hands on Nazi civilians after the holocaust, they would not hold back.

Even if Ukranians got their hands on Russian civilians at this point there would be atrocities even though Russia has not even done 1/10 to Ukraine what Israel has done to people in Gaza and for 35x the time lenght

Jews didn’t go after Nazi/German civilians after the war because they focused on building a future for themselves. Being productive, taking the moral high ground and building up a life and country from scratch. Because thats what respectable people do. 
 

And dude… Whats you problem with Ukrainians. They too are nowadays not savages unlike the Palestinians. (I am referring to the broad culture, I am sure there are also respectable groups, individuals within that society). There are still plenty of Russians in Ukraine. Nobody is going after them. Also in previous posts I talked about Palestinian living conditions not being that dire and having a lot of opportunity, being pampered with media attention and having had the opportunity to make good money in Israel. I am not going to constantly repeat myself.

Edited January 19 by Vrubel

[kenway]

8 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Paid? 😂

The last time I was "paid" by IDF was in 2009 when I got 100$ a month for the shoppings in the market in my base.

That's fine. Was just curious.

Appreciated.

[kenway]

51 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Israel isn't interested in ethnic cleansing

Here we disagree, although I'd accept the nuance that it's not Israel as a whole, merely an insanely far-right contingent of it.

But to be fair, the exercise was more about how your position would change, if it were found to be the case. It's important because some pro-Israelis who concur that it's genocide are seemingly quite happy about it. 

 

51 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

If Israel would have wanted to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, they would have done that so much earlier.

Variables change over time, not least public opinion and government attitude. Netanyahu himself has changed.

Besides, you could easily apply the same logic to the official response. 

 

51 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

It's a war on our safety and future on this land. After October 7 attack the Israeli collective consciousness realized that it cannot longer live with Hamas, it's either them or us. This is a question of survival.

I recognise that you believe that. 

[kenway]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

All terrorists even look and act the same way. It's not that hard to define what a terrorist looks like.

What do terrorists look like? How do terrorists act? If it’s not hard to define what a terrorist looks like, then why don’t you define it?

I've already said that Israel was created by terrorist groups. The Haganah literally translates as "Defense Force" which later became the Israeli Defence Force (IDF). Can you point to the exact moment that the IDF ceased terrorist activities?

The truth is that terrorism is just another weapon and method that a country uses in order to achieve its aims. Israel has been using terrorism prior to its genesis, through its genesis, and after its genesis right up to the current bombardment today.

 

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

For example if Israel was a terrorist state, then you wouldn't be protesting here to stop the bombing. You can do that because there is chance that they might listen.

That doesn't even make any sense.

 

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I am not going to bother defining a terrorist for you. It's willful ignorance.

Okay, well I appreciate your time regardless.

Edited January 19 by kenway

[kenway]

Meanwhile over in the West Bank, in a place that has nothing to do with Hamas....

(would ordinarily be a war crime, with the unique exception that there isn't even a war in this instance)

 

[kenway]

[kenway]

 

And the latest data according to Euro-Med.

[kenway]

It also should be remembered this is Day 8 of the telecommunications blackout in Gaza.

No-one has any clue about what's going on there in real-time.

The data would assume hell on earth.

 

[Lila9]

21 minutes ago, kenway said:

 

And the latest data according to Euro-Med.

This organization is linked to Hamas in Europe, under the facade of a human rights organization. I would be careful trusting them.

https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngo-monitor-statement-on-euromed-hr-monitor/

"The Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor is an ideological advocacy NGO led by Palestinians alleged by Israel to be linked to Hamas. The organization uses the facade of human rights and focuses primarily on demonizing Israel, with no publicly available information on its budget or funding sources. The repeated allegations directed at Israel, including accusations of “organ theft,” as well as “genocide,” “ethnic cleansing,” “collective punishment,” are not supported by evidence.

In contrast, EMHRM systematically echoes and amplifies denials of Palestinian abuses and war crimes where the evidence is readily available, such as using Al-Shifa medical complex and other hospitals in the Gaza Strip for terror. In addition, social media posts by EMHRM officials systematically promote claims that delegitimize Israel and Zionism.

EMHRM also mixes political propaganda with blood libels and other forms of antisemitism, such as the organ theft charges, accusations of “slow poisoning of [Palestinian] children,” and declarations that “the legacy of the Holocaust lent uncritical credence to the Zionist narrative.” Richard Falk, Chair of EMHRN’s Board of Trustees and featured on the NGO’s website, is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist and has been widely denounced for his antisemitic statements.

Hamas Terror Links: Ramy Abdu and Mazen Kahel, respectively current and former chairman of EMHRM, were listed by the Israel Ministry of Defense in 2013 as “main operatives” for institutions considered by Israel to be fronts for Hamas in Europe.

EMHRN appears in the European Union’s transparency register of “‘interest representatives” who “carry out activities to influence the EU policy and decision-making process” (emphasis in original).

For details, sources and additional information, see https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngos/euro-med-human-rights-monitor/"

 

[Lila9]

Hamas doesn't limit itself to Israel and would like to terrorise Europe too, I'm not surprised.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-says-it-uncovered-hamas-terror-network-planning-attacks-in-europe/

 

[kenway]

9 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

This organization is linked to Hamas in Europe, under the facade of a human rights organization. I would be careful trusting them.

https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngo-monitor-statement-on-euromed-hr-monitor/

"The Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor is an ideological advocacy NGO led by Palestinians alleged by Israel to be linked to Hamas. The organization uses the facade of human rights and focuses primarily on demonizing Israel, with no publicly available information on its budget or funding sources. The repeated allegations directed at Israel, including accusations of “organ theft,” as well as “genocide,” “ethnic cleansing,” “collective punishment,” are not supported by evidence.

In contrast, EMHRM systematically echoes and amplifies denials of Palestinian abuses and war crimes where the evidence is readily available, such as using Al-Shifa medical complex and other hospitals in the Gaza Strip for terror. In addition, social media posts by EMHRM officials systematically promote claims that delegitimize Israel and Zionism.

EMHRM also mixes political propaganda with blood libels and other forms of antisemitism, such as the organ theft charges, accusations of “slow poisoning of [Palestinian] children,” and declarations that “the legacy of the Holocaust lent uncritical credence to the Zionist narrative.” Richard Falk, Chair of EMHRN’s Board of Trustees and featured on the NGO’s website, is a 9/11 conspiracy theorist and has been widely denounced for his antisemitic statements.

Hamas Terror Links: Ramy Abdu and Mazen Kahel, respectively current and former chairman of EMHRM, were listed by the Israel Ministry of Defense in 2013 as “main operatives” for institutions considered by Israel to be fronts for Hamas in Europe.

EMHRN appears in the European Union’s transparency register of “‘interest representatives” who “carry out activities to influence the EU policy and decision-making process” (emphasis in original).

For details, sources and additional information, see https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngos/euro-med-human-rights-monitor/"

 

 

So if we're going to play that game...

 

 

... and Alan Dershowitz? Okay.

But in any event it should probably be remembered that death count figures are seldom disputed by neither Gaza nor Israel.

 

 

[Nivsch]

hamas wants all the time to get control in the West Bank too, and most of the daily activities of IDF there during all the years are against hamas.

[Lila9]

14 minutes ago, kenway said:

 

So if we're going to play that game...

 

 

... and Alan Dershowitz? Okay.

But in any event it should probably be remembered that death count figures are seldom disputed by neither Gaza nor Israel.

 

 

Yet, more reliable than organizations related to Hamas and which probably funded by Iran, Qatar etc. 

[kenway]

26 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Yet, more reliable than organizations related to Hamas and which probably funded by Iran, Qatar etc. 

 

Very unlikely.

Plus you're missing the paradox of your own subtle biases.

The point is that "links to Hamas" is an allegation made by a compromised controversial right-wing pro-Israeli organisation.

... with Alan Dershowitz and Douglas Murray on the board lol.

 

[kenway]

 

The same Alan Dershowitz that has a history of falsification (and not paying up on bets)...

@Lila9

[Danioover9000]

   Sorry for late replies ya'll.

 

@Lila9

On 2024-01-16 at 6:21 PM, Lila9 said:

Thomas Hand, Emily's father, the girl who was kidnapped by Hamas, is responding to the claims that Israel is an apartheid state. I absolutely agree with him, he speaks the truth.

   No disrespect to you or @Nivsch, @Vrubel but lately you and other pro Israeli, and sometimes pro Palestinians keep on bringing evidence of shorts or clips, but not make the effort to also share the original video:

   And after doing some body language, verbal, statement and discourse analysis, I came to the conclusion that this video that Thomas Hands was being mostly defensive, has genuine defensiveness but also is lying here and there via omission, withholding details.

   Generally Thomas's body language and posture is strange. Victims of an evil will typically be defensive and generally have closed in body language, crossed arms, prayer/stippling of hands, shoulders sometimes hunched in, to all appear smaller. Yet Thomas's body is so open here, hands resting widely on sofa, taking space, signaling dominance and confidence which IMO looks so juxtaposed to a victim here. Also Piers throwing into his opening statement as him being 'Irish' to build instant nationalist rapport and trust with Thomas Hands who also is 'Irish'. 

   Especially in terms of discourse it's emotionally manipulative. From the flowers, to pictures of Thomas Hand's daughter, to Thomas Hands wearing a 'white' pull over, in colour psychology in the west white represents purity and goodness, and also throughout Piers Morgan asking soft ball questions to him.

   And that outburst he had on your clip...there are a few moments there that are red flags to me, especially when he goes and attacks the protesters when they chant 'from the river to the sea.' but Thomas omitted the last part 'And Palestine will be free.." Here is especially IMO a big red flag because now he's displaying aggressive body language behavior to just the protesters, not HAMMAs, to the western Palestinian protesters. Also before Thomas's rant he displayed a strong sign of disgust to Piers Morgan when Piers was asking and framing the protests.

   Video below explains that slogan, between 45-50 minutes in. Also I suggest you watch that PBD podcast with Bassam Youssef:

   So IMO, body language to me from him is he's mostly defensive with some emotional manipulation here and there. Decide for yourselves if he's being genuine, IMO he mostly is, but how he communicated is suspect here.

Edited January 19 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

   Fantastic coverage of a potential future problems for Israel:

 

[Nivsch]

I think Thomas was frustrated from the misleading view of the interviewer and the world crowd opinion that just can't see what we see every day here and he was just so desperate from the opacity of everyone that are hijacked by the anti-Israel propaganda, including the relation to Arabs that is better here in many facets even in comparison to many Arab states around, and the world just don't understand this and keep parroting these nonesense slogans.

So he felt he has no choice but to somehow "explode" on him here and it was great he just nailed it. He spoke what every Israeli feels inside him.

Edited January 19 by Nivsch

[kenway]

@Nivsch @Lila9

[kenway]

On 12/01/2024 at 5:58 PM, Danioover9000 said:

@kenway

   I've watched the South African part, and currently watching Israel's part. Generally, you're not missing much, just linguistically Israel reframing and distorting and deflecting with use of sophistry, undermining the definitions of genocide, good dodging and deflecting. I will be doing a body language analysis on both parts as I generally feel that some speakers on either side, just some, have nervousness or defensiveness. 

It's nice to see you. Will you be still doing this?